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Economics101 30th Dec 2021 22:07


Economically inactive EU citizens resident in France were suddenly ejected from existing medical arrangements and required to take out private medical insurance "from the first Euro". At the time, private medical insurance did not exist in France so could not be bought. Getting any other European insurer to cover you "from the first Euro" was virtually impossible as most policies did not cover pre-existing conditions and none of them met the requirements of French law. Outcome: French government taken to the EU court, fined and regulations rolled back.
Would this be the same European Court that Brexiteers reject as an infringement of their sovereign rights?

ATNotts 31st Dec 2021 14:21

Another interesting critique of the state of play 12 months since Brexit actually took effect:-

https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft...chaft-101.html

Apologies, again in German, but Google Translate is your friend.

Some will say, what would you expect from a German (EU) news source but they will mostly be Brexiteers with their heads stuck, like the proverbial ostrich firmly in the sand.

Wonder where we'll be at the end of 2022? In the same or a worse place I'd suggest.

Mr Mac 31st Dec 2021 16:27

ATNotts
You can put up what ever link you like showing the issues that have occurred, and will continue to do so, and a growing minority will go "boo sucks" and trail out the successes as they see it. However, as you know, a number of posters have asked for a list on here of the tangible benefits of Brexit going back to last summer, which has been met with a roaring silence, which became deafening after the pre Christmas Govt issues shall we say.
Anyway a New Year is coming, which will hopefully better than the last for all concerned, as it would be difficult to get much worse, especially for Bojo, but there is a sneaking suspicion that it will.

Happy New Year
Cheers
Mr Mac

Krystal n chips 1st Jan 2022 10:27

The Crowning glory of Brexit then ! ..presumably the rest of this joyous celebration, as interpreted by Boris alone, was induced by several glasses of what he's holding.

That crown is really going to bolster the UK economy !



Johnson lists returning crowns to pint glasses as a key Brexit success | Brexit | The Guardian

Krystal n chips 13th Jan 2022 07:54

When you hold two jobs on a part time basis, clearly you have to prioritise as to which offers the best material benefits. Enter the vacuous Ms Truss who today will be in her Brexit negotiator role and has chosen a soopah location, presumably with her aspirations for Chequers in mind, to get an idea as to how lavishly she can potentially indulge herself should the worst come to the worst and she actually becomes PM.

However, she's off to a good start when attempting to transfer the onus onto, naturally, the damned EU seemingly unaware it was the UK, well ok, Boris, who was more than happy to sign up to the agreement in the first place...without giving a moments thought to the consequences.

Brexit: Liz Truss aims for 'reset' as UK-EU protocol talks resume - BBC News

Sallyann1234 13th Jan 2022 11:26

The only proper "reset" would be to start again with another referendum.

old,not bold 13th Jan 2022 11:48


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 11169392)
The only proper "reset" would be to start again with another referendum.

Yes, of course that's true. However, the wise and experienced Ms Truss has informed the EU that it has "a clear responsibility" to fix problems, so they'll naturally be eager to do that, maybe by shooting Ms Truss to fix the biggest problem before they move on to the next biggest problem.

Naturally, they'll be only too happy to "agree a plan for intensive negotiations" when they thought, quite wrongly, that negotiations ceased when BoJo signed the agreement on behalf of the United Kingdom. The fools thought that if that agreement created problems for the United Kingdom, the United Kingdom has a clear responsibility to fix those problems, not the EU. But Ms Truss has told them quite clearly that they are wrong, so they now understand their responsibilities better. Thank heavens for that.

Danny G 13th Jan 2022 12:37

The only issue with that Sally is that you would not be re joining on the same terms, so it would mean adopting the Euro, no rebate and probably accept Schngin.

I dont think that would go down to well. Probably joining EEA would be more sensible

ATNotts 13th Jan 2022 12:41


Originally Posted by Danny G (Post 11169431)
The only issue with that Sally is that you would not be re joining on the same terms, so it would mean adopting the Euro, no rebate and probably accept Schngin.

I dont think that would go down to well. Probably joining EEA would be more sensible

I think EEA is likely to be Labour policy come the next general election.

Danny G 13th Jan 2022 20:52


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11169434)
I think EEA is likely to be Labour policy come the next general election.


No I think they would lose again if they campaigend on that.

Ninthace 13th Jan 2022 21:00


Originally Posted by Danny G (Post 11169641)
No I think they would lose again if they campaigned on that.

Brexit is pretty much irreversible. Labour could just campaign on getting Brexit to work in some way, the other lot have got nothing to show for it. Not automatically and reflexively rejecting anything beginning with E might be a good start.

Effluent Man 14th Jan 2022 07:04

Could try entertainments. Seems to be pretty popular in No10.

B Fraser 14th Jan 2022 07:09


Originally Posted by Danny G (Post 11169431)
The only issue with that Sally is that you would not be re joining on the same terms, so it would mean adopting the Euro, no rebate and probably accept Schngin.

Not to mention being forced to accept the supremacy of the European court. This was never the case according to one side of the debate, which makes the current disputes in Poland, Hungary and Romania rather puzzling.

ATNotts 14th Jan 2022 08:14


Originally Posted by B Fraser (Post 11169812)
Not to mention being forced to accept the supremacy of the European court. This was never the case according to one side of the debate, which makes the current disputes in Poland, Hungary and Romania rather puzzling.

And given the questionable anti democratic behaviour of both Poland and Hungary thank heavens they are. Sadly the UK is no longer protected in the same way given the corrupt behaviour of the UK government presently.

Torquetalk 14th Jan 2022 08:21


Originally Posted by Danny G (Post 11169431)
The only issue with that Sally is that you would not be re joining on the same terms, so it would mean adopting the Euro, no rebate and probably accept Schngin

Being in Schengen and adopting Euro have never been EU preconditions. There is also the obvious precedent of member states that do not fulfill either of these supposed requirements. Why would you make this claim when it is obviously false?

ATNotts 14th Jan 2022 08:33


Originally Posted by Torquetalk (Post 11169834)
Being in Schengen and adopting Euro have never been EU preconditions. There is also the obvious precedent of member states that do not fulfill either of these supposed requirements. Why would you make this claim when it is obviously false?

In fairness if I recall correctly while joining the Euro may not be a prerequisite to joining the EU all the more recently joined EU members have in their agreement to move towards (not necessarily in those exact terms) taking the EUR on board. That may always be problematic given the structure of the UK economy which is largely built upon consumption and personal debt, facilitated by the equity one can raise from private property (house values).

For this reason I cannot see the UK going beyond the EEA any time soon especially as if the UK were to apply to re-join it would be made crystal clear that all the UP opt outs (of which there were far too many) would not be granted in any new accession treaty.

B.Fraser

In the scheme of things, I believe, though I don't know, away from the popular (Brexit leaning) press and the extremities of the "leave" argument the European Court was way down the list of reasons why people voted leave, or at least the pivotal reason as to why they voted to leave. Probably way above that were stuff like taking back control of borders, "British jobs for British workers" and other stuff that impacts directly on peoples lives. The ECJ is an institution few understand, and many confuse with the European Court of Human Rights which has diddly squat to do with the EU.

Torquetalk 14th Jan 2022 08:39


Originally Posted by B Fraser (Post 11169812)
Not to mention being forced to accept the supremacy of the European court. This was never the case according to one side of the debate, which makes the current disputes in Poland, Hungary and Romania rather puzzling.

Which “European Court“ are you talking about? The European Court of Justice or The European Court of Human Rights?

Sovereign governments are quite good at simply ignoring the rulings of the latter when it suits them, the UK included. That‘s easy, because it is just a breach of a treaty without any really penalties behind it.

The other disputes you refer to are also unlikely to be the concern of the European Court, as they are more political in nature. The UK solved it‘s differences there by leaving the EU instead of staying in the EU Parliament, being part of the big debates of our time and thereby maintaining its political presence in its most obvious sphere of interest and influence. Duh.

Torquetalk 14th Jan 2022 09:34


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11169845)
In fairness if I recall correctly while joining the Euro may not be a prerequisite to joining the EU all the more recently joined EU members have in their agreement to move towards (not necessarily in those exact terms) taking the EUR on board. That may always be problematic given the structure of the UK economy which is largely built upon consumption and personal debt, facilitated by the equity one can raise from private property (house values).

For this reason I cannot see the UK going beyond the EEA any time soon especially as if the UK were to apply to re-join it would be made crystal clear that all the UP opt outs (of which there were far too many) would not be granted in any new accession treaty.

In reality the adoption of the Euro by all member states would only ever happen if the politcal and economic conditions allowed it to;; as the UK found to its cost when we were breifly pegged to it at an unstustainable valuation of Sterling. So it is not in any real sense a barrier to full, associate, satellite,or once-heard- of uncle twice removed status. Just a bit of wailing by the real Project Fear mongers.

Agree entirely on your latter point.

B Fraser 14th Jan 2022 12:00

I'm talking about the ECJ. Whether you agree with what goes on in Poland, Hungary or Romania (and I don't), I'm uncomfortable with a sovereign nation being legally subservient to a non-country's so-called court. As for the disputes being of no concern, why are Poland being fined a million a day for telling the ECJ to mind their own business ?

The EU was a trading club which is now taking itself rather too seriously.

ATNotts 14th Jan 2022 12:08


Originally Posted by B Fraser (Post 11169938)
I'm talking about the ECJ. Whether you agree with what goes on in Poland, Hungary or Romania (and I don't), I'm uncomfortable with a sovereign nation being legally subservient to a non-country's so-called court. As for the disputes being of no concern, why are Poland being fined a million a day for telling the ECJ to mind their own business ?

The EU was a trading club which is now taking itself rather too seriously.

The problems with both Poland and Hungary is they are trying to undermine democracy, free media and independent judiciary which are pillars of the EU. If those nations want to follow this path then they have no place in the EU. Of course, rather like the UK they want to have their cake and eat it.


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