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Alsacienne 19th Nov 2021 12:12

The 4% margin would have disappeared into thin air had those British citizens (and passport holders) been able to express their opinions but were unable to do so because of the 15 years+ absence law. Just sayin ...:ugh:

SWBKCB 19th Nov 2021 12:17


Were a political party with some conviction and vision were to offer the public a series of solutions to apparently interminable problems (such as a more balanced and perhaps fairer economy, less stressed “communities”, a fair and believable immigration policy and positive trade and political relations with the EU), I think they could carry a lot of the electorate with them. And then the swivel-eyed loonies and faux peoples’ politicians would have to crawl back into their holes. Because they have absolutely nothing to offer in substance on the issues listed above. And I am sure people know that in their hearts.
Isn't this Labour's policies (it's hard to tell) - so why isn't Starmer doing it?

Sallyann1234 19th Nov 2021 12:32

Unfortunately in politics, if you want to get votes it's no good just being right. You have to have something else to sell.

Barksdale Boy 19th Nov 2021 12:36

Cornish Jack
Inveighing against pedants? You? Surely not!

Alsacienne
I was denied a vote in the referendum because of the 15+ year rule. I would have voted to leave and would still do so.

Krystal n chips 19th Nov 2021 13:11


Originally Posted by Bergerie1 (Post 11144359)
I am a remainer and happy to be so. While I recognise there are many things wrong with the EU, I think the evidence shows there are many more things wrong with Westminster and Boris and his followers. I can understand, but do not agree with, the desire to regain our independence - whatever that may mean, because we were always a sovereign nation even when within the EU.

What I find foolish beyond belief was, for mainly ideological reasons, to leave the single market, the customs union and, for aviation, EASA. I wonder how many Brexiteers are now having second thoughts.

I would concur with all the reasons you state, but, with one far more pertinent addition. F.O.M ...millions have died to ensure this could be offered. The same rabid leavers probably stand at the many memorials displaying their hypocrisy on 11th Nov .

B Fraser 19th Nov 2021 14:05


Originally Posted by Alsacienne (Post 11144446)
The 4% margin would have disappeared into thin air had those British citizens (and passport holders) been able to express their opinions but were unable to do so because of the 15 years+ absence law. Just sayin ...:ugh:

If you have chosen to live somewhere else for 15 years then you have clearly checked out. Do you think I should be able to vote on Scottish independence due to little else other than a birth certificate ?

alfaman 19th Nov 2021 14:23


Originally Posted by B Fraser (Post 11144482)
If you have chosen to live somewhere else for 15 years then you have clearly checked out. Do you think I should be able to vote on Scottish independence due to little else other than a birth certificate ?

Not necessarily: someone may be posted abroad for work, & find they wish to return once they've left that employer : that time may exceed 15 years, or may not. Why should that make any difference to anyone else? Too many people think they have the right to draw arbitrary lines around the life decisions of others.

Ninthace 19th Nov 2021 15:00


Originally Posted by B Fraser (Post 11144482)
If you have chosen to live somewhere else for 15 years then you have clearly checked out. Do you think I should be able to vote on Scottish independence due to little else other than a birth certificate ?

I also lived abroad for a while but my income was paid and taxed in UK as was most of my cash on which I also payed UK tax. I held a UK passport and had UK Citizenship throughout. In my case, I only had a say in local elections in the country in which I lived. IMHO that should give a person a say in the affairs of the UK irrespective of where they lay their head at night. I suggest unless you know an individual's circumstances, you don't really have the right to judge.

BizJetJock 19th Nov 2021 16:12


F.O.M ...millions have died to ensure this could be offered
What a lot of b******s. No war was fought over any such thing, in fact if anything the opposite. The right of people to stay in their country and not be carted off as as slaves.

Krystal n chips 19th Nov 2021 16:52


Originally Posted by BizJetJock (Post 11144520)
What a lot of b******s. No war was fought over any such thing, in fact if anything the opposite. The right of people to stay in their country and not be carted off as as slaves.

is that your attempt at revisionist history then ?.

If so, feel free to explain why the many and varied unpleasantries in Europe, lets just stick with, say, over a couple of centuries here, presumably occurred due to various nations involved wishing to fulfil your "criteria "

Of course, eventually, when everybody became fed up with losing large chunks of their population, this was the result.

Free movement of persons | Fact Sheets on the European Union | European Parliament (europa.eu)

Thankfully, that little bastion of Imperial glory otherwise known as the UK, and, let's face it, we even got proper passports back now ! no longer has any concerns about this inconvenience

Effluent Man 19th Nov 2021 18:45

The CPTPP that Britain is trying to join is an organisation of Pacific trading states. Britain is joining long after the establishment of this organisation and, as such, has had no input to the trading rules. This means that we will have to accept things as they are. That seems rather like being a rule taker when you are not a rule maker to me. Farmers seem less than impressed judging by contributions to Farming Today on R4 this week.

PDR1 19th Nov 2021 18:59


Originally Posted by B Fraser (Post 11144482)
If you have chosen to live somewhere else for 15 years then you have clearly checked out. Do you think I should be able to vote on Scottish independence due to little else other than a birth certificate ?

That argument doesn't stack up, of course. Many people who you sneer at as "checked out" have simply chosen to use the benefits that EU membership gave them by living elsewhere in the EU. The Brexiteer Mendocracy have denied them any participation in the vote that would take away those rights that they have based their lives around.

PDR

Alsacienne 19th Nov 2021 22:23


If you have chosen to live somewhere else for 15 years then you have clearly checked out.
Not at all, simply preferred to take up gainful employment rather than sponge off the UK benefits system .... and pay tax and NI contributions in the UK whilst doing so. Just because one is no longer resident does not mean that one takes an interest in what is happening in one's country of birth. Mind you the current situation and those 'in power' do not give me any hope for a successful economy, a tolerant society and an overwhelming desire for British cheeses, bacon and sausages to tempt my palate in the near future.

Avionker 20th Nov 2021 06:56


Originally Posted by B Fraser (Post 11144482)
If you have chosen to live somewhere else for 15 years then you have clearly checked out. Do you think I should be able to vote on Scottish independence due to little else other than a birth certificate ?

By extension of that "logic" surely EU citizens who had settled in the UK, for say 5 years prior to the referendum, should have been able to vote also? After all they had clearly checked in.

ATNotts 20th Nov 2021 07:56


Originally Posted by Avionker (Post 11144731)
By extension of that "logic" surely EU citizens who had settled in the UK, for say 5 years prior to the referendum, should have been able to vote also? After all they had clearly checked in.

Of course they should have, disenfranchising them was a clear sop to the ERG extremists.

Krystal n chips 20th Nov 2021 08:20

As has been mentioned before, this Gov't, and Boris, are indebted to Brexit ..

Martin Rowson on David Frost’s threats to trigger article 16 — cartoon | Opinion | The Guardian

BizJetJock 20th Nov 2021 11:35

KnC

is that your attempt at revisionist history then ?.
????? I really think you need to be careful which pills you take.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Poles, Czechs, French and Russians fought in WW2 because they had a desire to be able to go and become plumbers in the UK? Or perhaps you are referring to the Germans who were quite successful at transporting people to work elsewhere within the "lebensraum", but not usually with their consent.
Other wars are available for similar examination.

Ninthace 20th Nov 2021 12:02


Originally Posted by BizJetJock (Post 11144520)
What a lot of b******s. No war was fought over any such thing, in fact if anything the opposite. The right of people to stay in their country and not be carted off as as slaves.

Before you go out on that limb, you might like to search Wiki for European Wars. There were hundreds of wars since the star of the 17th Century and I think you would have trouble with "The right of people to stay in their country and not be carted off as as slaves" Most were territorial or who about should sit on which posh chair.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...icts_in_Europe

Krystal n chips 20th Nov 2021 12:35


Originally Posted by BizJetJock (Post 11144838)
KnC

????? I really think you need to be careful which pills you take.
Are you seriously suggesting that the Poles, Czechs, French and Russians fought in WW2 because they had a desire to be able to go and become plumbers in the UK? Or perhaps you are referring to the Germans who were quite successful at transporting people to work elsewhere within the "lebensraum", but not usually with their consent.
Other wars are available for similar examination.

I will relay your concerns about my medication ( Ramipril 5mg) to my GP. Thanks for your concern.

And thanks also for reverting to the usual JB default regarding Germany. However, since you've mentioned various other nations, you seem to have ignored the fact they all enjoy FOM within the EU. Try and identify the one nation that no longer enjoys this freedom.

BizJetJock 20th Nov 2021 13:40

Ninthace, I agree. I was not trying to suggest that collecting slaves was a primary cause of wars, I was just objecting to KnC's absurd suggestion that any had been fought to establish the EU's Freedom of movement. The concept did not even exist at the time of the last European disagreement.


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