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ATNotts 5th Nov 2021 13:30

This is surely yet another case of UK jobsworth officials enforcing EU regulations with knobs on. Behaviour that surely contributed to anti EU sentiment eagerly egged on by the usual suspects.

SWBKCB 5th Nov 2021 13:36


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11137686)
This is surely yet another case of UK jobsworth officials enforcing EU regulations with knobs on. Behaviour that surely contributed to anti EU sentiment eagerly egged on by the usual suspects.

I doubt it - you've clearly never met a Commission auditor. If it is outside the tolerances in the regulation, it's a fail and a recovery would be expected. If you don't recover you will be disallowed and if the number of fails is above a certain level you will be seen to have systemic failures and you get a flat rate penalty.

ATNotts 5th Nov 2021 13:50


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11137690)
I doubt it - you've clearly never met a Commission auditor. If it is outside the tolerances in the regulation, it's a fail and a recovery would be expected. If you don't recover you will be disallowed and if the number of fails is above a certain level you will be seen to have systemic failures and you get a flat rate penalty.

But nowhere is there mention of an 'EU Rottweiler'.

Denti 5th Nov 2021 14:44


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11137690)
I doubt it - you've clearly never met a Commission auditor. If it is outside the tolerances in the regulation, it's a fail and a recovery would be expected. If you don't recover you will be disallowed and if the number of fails is above a certain level you will be seen to have systemic failures and you get a flat rate penalty.

Unlikely to say the least. The Commission simply has not the staff to run around on farms in wales. Disbursal of funds, as well as oversight of adherence to commission rules, are left to the local authorities. Which does explain why Orban can funnel hundreds of millions into his own family for very non-EU objects without repercussion, and farmers in wales will be fined for planting stuff in the wrong place.

Remember: the commission has a very small staff, just 30k people, unlike the UK government which has more than 400.000 civil servants. And the latter has to run just one country, not projects across 27 plus EFTA states.

It is the usual thing, someone takes a spin on a story and in the end a completely wrong impression has been formed, that is what brexit was all about. Now, some farmers do reap what they sowed, and i am not sorry for that. If one can not think critically, then it is his own damn fault if he runs into problems.

SWBKCB 5th Nov 2021 15:32


Originally Posted by Denti (Post 11137719)
Unlikely to say the least. The Commission simply has not the staff to run around on farms in wales. Disbursal of funds, as well as oversight of adherence to commission rules, are left to the local authorities. Which does explain why Orban can funnel hundreds of millions into his own family for very non-EU objects without repercussion, and farmers in wales will be fined for planting stuff in the wrong place.

Remember: the commission has a very small staff, just 30k people, unlike the UK government which has more than 400.000 civil servants. And the latter has to run just one country, not projects across 27 plus EFTA states.

It is the usual thing, someone takes a spin on a story and in the end a completely wrong impression has been formed, that is what brexit was all about. Now, some farmers do reap what they sowed, and i am not sorry for that. If one can not think critically, then it is his own damn fault if he runs into problems.

It's the role of Commission audirors to ensure that Member States are operating in compliance with the regulations - to the letter. Their visits do involve visits to farmers and other organisations - still got the scars. I'm only talking about the CAP here.

Recc 5th Nov 2021 15:50


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11137671)
The story is they were out by four inches. Every farmer will know of a similar story and so the CAP was seen as vindictive and unfair. Next time your talking to a farmer, ask them about the definition of a hedge.

Two lines from the news article that you linked to:
1. "...he received a letter from Rural Payments Wales telling him he had contravened original plans - using satellite images as evidence "
2." ... Rural Payments Wales told him the tree planting differed from the original plan, in some cases by as little as 10cm (4in)."

Those two statements make absolutely no sense if the trees were really only 4 inches out! In reality, the second statement is perfectly consistent with most of the trees being out by 3 miles. It sounds like the article was very carefully written to be sympathetic to the farmer. More information needed.


Effluent Man 5th Nov 2021 16:58


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11137740)
It's the role of Commission audirors to ensure that Member States are operating in compliance with the regulations - to the letter. Their visits do involve visits to farmers and other organisations - still got the scars. I'm only talking about the CAP here.

Sounds like a square bananas story to me. Probably spread by a Murdoch hack.

alfaman 5th Nov 2021 17:04


Originally Posted by Recc (Post 11137749)
Two lines from the news article that you linked to:
1. "...he received a letter from Rural Payments Wales telling him he had contravened original plans - using satellite images as evidence "
2." ... Rural Payments Wales told him the tree planting differed from the original plan, in some cases by as little as 10cm (4in)."

Those two statements make absolutely no sense if the trees were really only 4 inches out! In reality, the second statement is perfectly consistent with most of the trees being out by 3 miles. It sounds like the article was very carefully written to be sympathetic to the farmer. More information needed.

Indeed: perhaps if number 2 was written "...by as much as 10cm (4in)" I might be a bit more concerned. Also, how many farmers have benefitted from CAP payments over the years, which kept their businesses solvent through difficult times, I know of a few. They rarely shout about that, though..or get mentions in the press.

Just a spotter 7th Nov 2021 20:56

With a growing suspicion within the EU ranks that the UK will trigger Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol around the time COP ends in Glasgow,one potential EU response could be to terminate or at least suspend the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA), which is the deal HMGov struck to comply with their legal obligations to avoid a no-deal Brexit as stipulated by the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 (aka the Benn Act). If that were to happen, in essence the UK would de facto be in a no-deal Brexit situation.

So, a genuine question for Brexit supports in the parish, if this is a well thought out strategy to circumvent the Benn Act and deliver a pure clean break, no-deal Brexit, is destabilising the most fragile and volatile part of the UK while rightly pi$$ing off the Americans (who are deeply invested in the Peace Process even before the election of the current President) a price worth paying?

JAS

Sallyann1234 7th Nov 2021 21:16


Originally Posted by Just a spotter (Post 11138738)
With a growing suspicion within the EU ranks that the UK will trigger Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol around the time COP ends in Glasgow,one potential EU response could be to terminate or at least suspend the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA), which is the deal HMGov struck to comply with their legal obligations to avoid a no-deal Brexit as stipulated by the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 (aka the Benn Act). If that were to happen, in essence the UK would de facto be in a no-deal Brexit situation.

So, a genuine question for Brexit supports in the parish, if this is a well thought out strategy to circumvent the Benn Act and deliver a pure clean break, no-deal Brexit, is destabilising the most fragile and volatile part of the UK while rightly pi$$ing off the Americans (who are deeply invested in the Peace Process even before the election of the current President) a price worth paying?

JAS

As far as the rabid Brexiteers are concerned, they have got what they wanted and nothing else matters.

Krystal n chips 8th Nov 2021 04:33


Originally Posted by Just a spotter (Post 11138738)
With a growing suspicion within the EU ranks that the UK will trigger Article 16 of the Northern Ireland Protocol around the time COP ends in Glasgow,one potential EU response could be to terminate or at least suspend the Trade and Cooperation Agreement (TCA), which is the deal HMGov struck to comply with their legal obligations to avoid a no-deal Brexit as stipulated by the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019 (aka the Benn Act). If that were to happen, in essence the UK would de facto be in a no-deal Brexit situation.

So, a genuine question for Brexit supports in the parish, if this is a well thought out strategy to circumvent the Benn Act and deliver a pure clean break, no-deal Brexit, is destabilising the most fragile and volatile part of the UK while rightly pi$$ing off the Americans (who are deeply invested in the Peace Process even before the election of the current President) a price worth paying?

JAS

There was a report recently, that, these continued arguments with the EU may be deliberate in order to keep Brexit in the publics eye and minds.

This on the basis what was promoted as we know as being the UK's "moment of triumph" over the EU hasn't, and never could, result in the so called "benefits" of leaving. This way, the recurrent arguments are intended to show why the UK was "right" to leave and why the blame can always be attributed to the EU and EU intransigence.

Having somebody with all the capabilities (euphemism or oxymoron, take your pick) of Frost in place makes him ideal for this strategy to be implemented and also allows Boris to "prove " how his " getting Brexit done ! " was absolutely the right thing for the electorate...and Boris's ego, the latter taking priority as always

wiggy 8th Nov 2021 06:57

There was a report recently, that, these continued arguments with the EU may be deliberate in order to keep Brexit in the publics eye and minds.”

Might have been the Nick Cohen piece in the Guardian a few days back..

Whatever the source looking at the headlines in a lot of the UK MSM over the last few months I’d say it’s a bang on certainty: detract/deflect from events at home by kicking up a stink about Brussels/Macron/ EU

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ct-with-the-eu

ATNotts 8th Nov 2021 07:59


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 11138853)
There was a report recently, that, these continued arguments with the EU may be deliberate in order to keep Brexit in the publics eye and minds.

Might have been the Nick Cohen piece in the Guardian a few days back..

Whatever the source looking at the headlines in a lot of the UK MSM over the last few months Id say its a bang on certainty: detract/deflect from events at home by kicking up a stink about Brussels/Macron/ EU

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ct-with-the-eu

Sadly many Brexiteers won't view such a move as Britain reneging on an international agreement that was agreed by the same regime that actually signed it, they will, egged on by the usual suspects in the "red top" media who's narrative will be "the EU bullying hard done to Britain. many Brexiteers will be revelling in another virtual "David vs. Goliath" battle (a la WW2) but one where they will swiftly discover the USA won't come running to support the UK.

If I were sat in Brussels I'm afraid that if the UK does invoke Art. 16 in Late November, which is being suggested in papers like the "Torygraph" I would hit the nuclear button on the Irish Land Border just ahead of Christmas. The British regime, and particularly the quasi terrorists in the DUP need teaching a hard lesson.

Krystal n chips 8th Nov 2021 08:00


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 11138853)
There was a report recently, that, these continued arguments with the EU may be deliberate in order to keep Brexit in the publics eye and minds.

Might have been the Nick Cohen piece in the Guardian a few days back..

Whatever the source looking at the headlines in a lot of the UK MSM over the last few months Id say its a bang on certainty: detract/deflect from events at home by kicking up a stink about Brussels/Macron/ EU

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...ct-with-the-eu

That's the one , thank you. And what you say does substantiate the MSM correlation because irrespective of the stance, the conflicts are being reported on.

Denti 8th Nov 2021 11:53

The EU might not like it, but they expect the UK to trigger Article 16, which is why the most likely response will be triggering of Article 779 TCA which ends that little piece of an agreement for good. Albeit with a 11 month notification period. I have heard rumors around that for at least 6 weeks over here in Berlin, despite the current coalition negotiations that seems to be a likely option supported both by the old (caretaker) government and the new coalition.

Sallyann1234 8th Nov 2021 12:19

Let's face it, both sides knew when the agreement was signed that it was unworkable.
Everyone knew there had to be an Irish border somewhere. It was mentioned here a hundred times, and elsewhere a thousand times.

andytug 8th Nov 2021 12:24

This UKIP goverment relies on constant anti - EU hostility to keep it's support onside. Therefore they will do whatever it takes to keep the pot simmering long enough for them to make their wealth from it, then disappear and leave someone else to sort out the mess.

ATNotts 8th Nov 2021 12:27


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 11139028)
Let's face it, both sides knew when the agreement was signed that it was unworkable.
Everyone knew there had to be an Irish border somewhere. It was mentioned here a hundred times, and elsewhere a thousand times.

Absolutely, and the border will simply be moved from the Irish Sea to the land border, certainly for trade, perhaps, if the EU want to kick the UK (and to a certain extent the Republic) where it hurts, for movement of people. I can already hear Brexiteers trotting out the "they can put barriers in place if they want but we won't) but a hard border on one side is every bit as effective as one on both sides.

The inevitable consequence will be the break down of the Good Friday agreement and provide grist to the mill for extremists from both sides of the political / religious divide.

Sallyann1234 8th Nov 2021 12:51

And we'll still hear "Brexit has been done, get over it." :ugh:

Ninthace 8th Nov 2021 14:09


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 11139046)
And we'll still hear "Brexit has been done, get over it." :ugh:

Yes. Still waiting for any Brexiteer to point to the delivery of any one of the so called advantages that made it all worthwhile. Shouldn't be too hard, just pull out any of your old leaflets and go through them. Come on, there has to be something positive you have achieved. Anything?


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