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Deltasierra010 25th Jun 2021 11:41

So how many million migrants should the EU accept each year because if borders were open there would be at least 1 billion migrate if they could

Cornish Jack 25th Jun 2021 11:44

PJ - wrong tense !!
That particular laissez-faire attitude was the policy supported by a 'niche' group in the 30s (Mosley, Mitford et al) happy to welcome their 'society' admirers from Europe. Unfortunately, they hadn't realised that their new 'best friends' were less than well-intentioned and there were considerably more than the numbers we're considering here ! :ugh:

Torquetalk 25th Jun 2021 11:49


Originally Posted by Deltasierra010 (Post 11068101)
So how many million migrants should the EU accept each year because if borders were open there would be at least 1 billion migrate if they could

As migration from dangerous and desperate places is a big part of the drive, policy on migration has to look a lot bigger than just stopping people getting in. Cutting the aid budget is akin to chopping of a leg to save weight in the 400 Meter hurdle.

papajuliet 25th Jun 2021 12:04

The naivety of some people is unbelievable. Presumably they would willingly allow total strangers to enter their home uninvited ?

ATNotts 25th Jun 2021 12:14


Originally Posted by Cornish Jack (Post 11068026)
Reassuring to note the priorities of some to focus on the the cost increases of blathering on mobile gossip boxes as against the probable scarcity of household supplies. :rolleyes:

The new EE mobile pricing is fact; everything else appears to be, by and large scare-mongering. That said I was in a corner shop last weekend and there were notices on the shelves apologising for some items being out of stock because of "a shortage of delivery drivers". No staples though, just, mostly confectionery.

The driver shortage may, or may not be a consequence of Brexit. The struggle for hospitality to find staff however is, most certainly Brexit related.

Krystal n chips 25th Jun 2021 12:28


Originally Posted by papajuliet (Post 11068094)
It's quite clear that some people here are happy to see their country invaded.

Always suitably emotive, or rather emetic, to include the word "invaded ". Now, I could be wrong, but, don't invasions usually involve something called force involving such things as bows and arrows / spears right up to a range of weapons in more contemporary times ?

Thus far, unless the "invasion" has been cunningly disguised that is, I have no recollection of such an event happening in the UK

Krystal n chips 25th Jun 2021 12:51

A bit more on the potentially impending food shortages. OK, a 100000 is a nice round figure, but, the point is there aren't any drivers and thanks to Flounce Out the shortage has suddenly become acute. One of the mantra's was "British jobs for British workers ! ", always catchy for the little England xenophobes, easy to remember after all, except for the little matter of there not being sufficient UK drivers in the first place.

There again, whilst it's wringing it's hands in despair, the RHA and hauliers are equally culpable with their employment conditions for drivers over the years.

UK facing summer of food shortages due to lack of lorry drivers | Food & drink industry | The Guardian

edi_local 25th Jun 2021 14:18


Originally Posted by papajuliet (Post 11068094)
It's quite clear that some people here are happy to see their country invaded.

I've yet to see any asylum seekers brandishing weapons, acting hostile towards our armed forces or launching mortar attacks, so it's quite a pathetic Invasion to be honest.

LowNSlow 25th Jun 2021 16:54

Torquetalk, I have no idea what you know or don't know and equally you won't know what's in the article unless you read it. To quote yourself "oh do get down off that high horse and climb back on the pony of your understanding".

The simple point I was trying to make that you seemed to have swerved in your desperation to make your point was that the French have not covered themselves in glory in how they have treated the immigrants on the Northern coast of France. A point you also seem to agree with.

alicopter 25th Jun 2021 17:24


Originally Posted by LowNSlow (Post 11068237)
Torquetalk, I have no idea what you know or don't know and equally you won't know what's in the article unless you read it. To quote yourself "oh do get down off that high horse and climb back on the pony of your understanding".

The simple point I was trying to make that you seemed to have swerved in your desperation to make your point was that the French have not covered themselves in glory in how they have treated the immigrants on the Northern coast of France. A point you also seem to agree with.

The problem is not quite how it looks. Of course, some people, police or agencies are not acting how they should but for many years French authorities have been frustrated to see that when they have given refugee status to many applicants, many other countries have not. Uk being one of them. For having been involved (at NGO volonteering level, I have offered accomodations for two families of migrants in properties I own and that are not occupied right now and I have not had a single proposition for about four years!. I offer electricity, water, wood for burners, telephone lines and internet all free of charge and no one is interested, so it is not a matter of not trying to help!!!...) Local authorities are also trying to help for food and sanitary conditions but somehow, everybody focuses on the few negative events hitting the press. I can assure many people are working hard to make the situation easier for the migrants, all over the territory. The solution to this mass immigration will never be sorted at the borders but in the very countries these good people are leaving as they do not have the choice. Share the wealth we have at home (and just because we are born where we are, count your blessings!) and provide dignity, water, food and a job in their countries and you will see if they have any interest to come to shitty France or UK.... Stop being such ducks.

Torquetalk 25th Jun 2021 18:18


Originally Posted by LowNSlow (Post 11068237)
Torquetalk, I have no idea what you know or don't know and equally you won't know what's in the article unless you read it. To quote yourself "oh do get down off that high horse and climb back on the pony of your understanding".

The simple point I was trying to make that you seemed to have swerved in your desperation to make your point was that the French have not covered themselves in glory in how they have treated the immigrants on the Northern coast of France. A point you also seem to agree with.

I do agree with that point Low. And the climbing down off the high horse of pomposity and ignorance was not directed at you but, as quoted, at 4468.

More generally, the French are also pursuing a “hostile environment“ policy. Is it solving the problem? No. Is it pushing it on/hiding it? Yes. And it is inhumane.

Opposition to half-baked and inhuman policy doesn‘t equate to a belief in open door policy as some seem people assume. I don‘t think it is unreasonable to expect policy makers to lead, be principled and come up with bold solutions. But they spend half their time echoing the demands of the outrage gang, who just want a quick fix. There isn‘t one.

Just for a giggle, how about Sarkozy‘s €300 repatriation bonus to Romany? How bloody stupid was that? Pocket the cash, then come back! What an idiot. All so he could do a bit of apparent “problem solving“

Cornish Jack 25th Jun 2021 18:18


Originally Posted by papajuliet (Post 11068094)
It's quite clear that some people here are happy to see their country invaded.

Uhmmm - yes , it seems that you might have a point there ... Mr H's bit on the side (apparently 'Gina Coladangelo') sounds like one of those 'furriners' to me., and he seems to be very happy to be 'invaded'.

TURIN 25th Jun 2021 18:57


Originally Posted by papajuliet (Post 11068094)
It's quite clear that some people here are happy to see their country invaded.

It's quite clear that some people here have never read a dictionary! :ugh:

SaulGoodman 26th Jun 2021 07:02


Originally Posted by papajuliet (Post 11068094)
It's quite clear that some people here are happy to see their country invaded.

You, Goofer3 and 4468 should look into what is happening at the Turkish, Greece / Bulgarian border. All done by Frontex and the local police forces. Pushbacks are happening all the time. Wether or not you agree with is, fact is illegal immigration is very low at the moment. Xenophobia is not only a British thing. Brexit however was being decided largely on Xenophobia.

Or to quote southpark: “they took out jobs!!!”

alicopter 26th Jun 2021 07:59


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 11068522)
You, Goofer3 and 4468 should look into what is happening at the Turkish, Greece / Bulgarian border. All done by Frontex and the local police forces. Pushbacks are happening all the time. Wether or not you agree with is, fact is illegal immigration is very low at the moment. Xenophobia is not only a British thing. Brexit however was being decided largely on Xenophobia.

Or to quote southpark: “they took out jobs!!!”

Brexit is about "We are not happy with the situation" so... "we regain sovereignty"... so "we are in the sheet" so... "we go back to the previous situation we spent billions to get out of".Ref the special status for NHS staff, Farming staff, Driving staff, soon Hospitality staff, only difference is time wasted, cost through the roof, stress of people in charge of applying new rules, lowering of standards and "Paria State" on World stage. Remember the fuss a few years ago to attract French Bus drivers to come five days a week to crew London buses and go back to France for the week-end... at already eye watering wages... Where are the scientists badly needed right now??? Time bomb ticking?

LowNSlow 26th Jun 2021 10:56

alicopter; that is a fine thing you are doing offering the properties, its a pity your generosity isn't being taken up. It's also refreshing to hear that people are trying to make the immigrants' lives more bearable while they wait for their asylum cases to be reviewed. As you say the country of birth can be a major blessing. I completely agree that the problem of immigration won't be solved until the societies an economies of the home countries are sufficiently stable to allow all their populations a decent life in their own lands and cultures. I don't see this happening any time soon and it is indeed a ticking time bomb for the industrialised countries of the world.

Torquetalk; the majority of governments around the world seem to have difficulty with immigration which isn't really surprising given the complexity of the problem. Are open borders a solution? I don't think so. Are closed borders a solution? Very much not.
My ideal would be a system that welcomes immigrants that expect to join the society they are entering and assimilate themselves into the host culture without losing their roots. Immigrants that will contribute to that society both through work and cultural contributions. However, this system should also have the ability to bar entry to people who do not have the good of the destination society at heart.
I wouldn't like to be the person who had to design and implement that system!!

Two's in 26th Jun 2021 12:53

The point most of you here seem determined to miss is there are better ways to prevent an influx of refugees and illegal immigrants than picking them out of boats mid-channel. If the useless and idle politicians spent a few minutes trying to address the core issues in places like Syria and Libya, and perhaps offered meaningful foreign aid (not just to BAE Systems best customers) so those hell-holes were not somewhere you had to flee, you might ease the problem at source. I realize on an aviation themed website complex issues like root cause analysis are frowned upon, but for Christ's sake, what would it take in real terms for the EU (and now little Britain) to make staying home with friends, culture and family a better option than being raped, murdered and fleeced by human traffickers?

Talk about missing the fu*king point.

ORAC 26th Jun 2021 13:52

In 2020, the top five most common countries of origin of people seeking asylum in the UK were Iran, Iraq, Albania, Eritrea, and Sudan.

I don’t think UK aid is going to help solve the problems of 4 out of the 5, and Albania is an EU problem not a UK one, as it started accession talks in 2020.

NutLoose 26th Jun 2021 13:52

What really gets me is the fact that no one had done this before, an agreement was drawn up and agreed with absolutely no idea if and how it would work, and then when parts of it are found to have teething problems a system appears to not be put in place to allow areas to be tweaked as and when required. The initial agreement should have been more fluid allowing for alterations. The NI border is a classic area that needs adjusting.

As for picking up refugees in the channel, they should be dropped off back in the EU, they are not fleeing persecution in the EU.

ORAC 26th Jun 2021 14:11

You mean Articles 13-16 and Annex 7?

https://assets.publishing.service.go..._Agreement.pdf

And, of course, for the Trade Agreement, the Partnership Council and 20 sub-committees and working groups who can come to legally binding agreements……


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EU–UK_Partnership_Council


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