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alicopter 31st Mar 2021 17:43


Originally Posted by Alsacienne (Post 11019962)
So .... to all you folk who know so much more than I do .... WHERE IS THE ASTRA ZENECA VACCINE??? ANY OF IT????

Don't you know? They have been bought (at cost) by the Maffia from AZ and are now in Moscow being re-labelled with russian stickers and will soon be on German and French shelves at 200 times the purchase price!!!.... (Joke... just in case and oh, I am allergic to pollonium and novichok...so, please abstain...)

4468 31st Mar 2021 18:20


So .... to all you folk who know so much more than I do .... WHERE IS THE ASTRA ZENECA VACCINE??? ANY OF IT????
Well we know that millions of doses are currently stored in the EU. Because they don’t feel able to use it. However they are prepared to prevent exports to those countries that are happy to use it.

ThorMos 31st Mar 2021 18:23


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 11019991)
Well we know that millions of doses are currently stored in the EU. Because they don’t feel able to use it. However they are prepared to prevent exports to those countries that are happy to use it.

Lie after Lie after Lie...

4468 31st Mar 2021 18:25

Torquetalk wrote:

Just for shits and giggles would you take us though the contractual points of difference and illustrate how these accord with British as opposed to Belgian law?

You won‘t be doing that though, will you? Because you just sort of made up the above because you think it is true.
Oh dear. How embarrassing for you:

Belgian law makes it harder for EU to enforce vaccine contract

Oops! :rolleyes:

Why aren’t the EU seeking redress in law? 🤔 🙄

Don’t worry. No apology required.

wiggy 31st Mar 2021 19:16


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 11019991)
Well we know that millions of doses are currently stored in the EU. Because they don’t feel able to use it. However they are prepared to prevent exports to those countries that are happy to use it.

That's odd, I don't know who the "we" are you are referring to but it looks like you don't have the full picture....

For example the French had felt "able", as you put it, to use over 2.2 million doses by cease work on the 29th, in addition to 7.8 million Pfizer and just under 700k of Moderna

https://covidtracker.fr/vaccintracker/


Actually that's too polite a reply ....ThorMos was spot on with his/her response


4468 31st Mar 2021 19:27

You folks need to do more research:

The People Who Stare at Fridges

Torquetalk 31st Mar 2021 19:35


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 11019995)
Torquetalk wrote:


Oh dear. How embarrassing for you:

Belgian law makes it harder for EU to enforce vaccine contract

Oops! :rolleyes:

Why aren’t the EU seeking redress in law? 🤔 🙄

Don’t worry. No apology required.

Now that you have been forthcoming enough to publish your source; that oracle of hyperbole Politico, we can check the details, And what does this source tell us? That no-one quoted has actually seen the UK contract and that the legal opinions offered are all conjecture, based upon sight of the published EU contract, set against non-attributed opinion from sources who say they have seen the UK version. Maybe that latter group includes you, as the strength of your opinion seems otherwise out-of-step with your knowledge.

If I want to learn even less than can be gleaned from Politico opinion pieces, I‘ll read more of your posts.


Sallyann1234 31st Mar 2021 19:42

Last time I looked, there was a whole thread about coronavirus.

What has all this got to do with Brexit?

Arch Stanton 31st Mar 2021 19:44

Even the regular Brexiteers are holding their heads in their hands every time 4468 posts one of his uneducated ill informed rants. Keep it up my friend, every time you bump the Brexit thread back to the top, people can see the level of debate brexiteers will sink to

4468 31st Mar 2021 19:48


What has all this got to do with Brexit?
Some might say EU ‘competence’?

Other opinions are of course available! 🙄😀

4468 31st Mar 2021 20:10


Even the regular Brexiteers are holding their heads in their hands every time 4468 posts one of his uneducated ill informed rants. Keep it up my friend, every time you bump the Brexit thread back to the top, people can see the level of debate brexiteers will sink to
😂🤣😂🤣

You guys crack me up!

😂

SaulGoodman 1st Apr 2021 06:05


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 11019930)
SaulGoodman


I believe that may be factually inaccurate I’m afraid. The British contract is written in accordance with British law. The EU contract is written in accordance with Belgian law. There are significant differences. But you are correct to say AZ has failed to deliver the numbers of doses promised to either customer! Such is the difficulty of upscaling. The place to resolve contractual disagreements is not by enabling export ‘restrictions’ as you term it.

Mr Mac

I remember the T72 very well. It may be that I was more perplexed by the ZSU234.

the main difference are that the UK negotiated hard repercussions and the EU did not. Very naive from the EU. The (financial) consequences of not delivering are bigger with the UK then with the EU. Hence they choose to deliver first and foremost to the UK. Otherwise the contracts are very similar. AZ has only delivered 25% of their contract so far.

The UK also has restrictions for export in place. For BoJo the “Export Ban” is a fantastic sound bite of course. I can fully understand the EU’s position. Bear in mind that half of the UK jabs came fron the EU in the first place.

Also it were mostly the member states who caused the most issues. The EC does not buy the vaccines. Its the individual member states.
In March last year (the first lockdown) a few member states were early adopters in vaccine roll out. Then it was decided to do it EU wide. But when the member states had to sign for the programs it was spring, the terraces were open and the urgency was gone. Then a lot of these member states were too late. The EC negotiated the T&C’s but does not have the power to purchase them.

Avionker 1st Apr 2021 09:34


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 11019794)
AZ says it is acting in agreement with it’s contract. Are the EU taking AZ to court over this alleged contractual disagreement? 🤔

Or are they just huffing and puffing and throwing their weight around, to mask their incompetence? Rubbishing a very effective vaccine in the process!

Point of information.

I have no particular criticism of the innovative abilities of the Russians. Certainly they are able to deliver Novichok to Salisbury and plutonium to London tea shops, so I imagine Sputnik to Munich or Paris is easy? Of course they also have a penchant for annexing countries and denying they shot down civil airliners. They lock up opposition leaders on trumped up charges and are still the subject of sanctions by the UK and the US. I can’t comment on whether they are still sanctioned by the EU!

But hey, they’re flogging vaccine! The EU are desperate!!

I imagine, according to Kernow Jack, highlighting these events will no doubt be “just yet another facet of xenophobia” 😂🤣😂 The ‘go to’ lazy smear from all remainers!

It’s just that I thought I’d read from remainers, a criticism of a post brexit government attempting to do deals with less ‘savoury’ regimes? Would that critique now look like double standards or just hypocrisy? Who knows, maybe the UK will even put in an order for Sputnik!

Russian behaviour

Putin is a murderous thug who is no friend of the West.

Highlighted in red. Would that be one of those “Ad Hominen” attacks that certain individuals on here see fit to continuously complain about? Asking for a friend...

Cornish Jack 1st Apr 2021 10:15

I imagine, according to Kernow Jack, highlighting these events will no doubt be “just yet another facet of xenophobia” 😂🤣😂 The ‘go to’ lazy smear from all remainers!
... and, thereby lies the problem -an over-active imagination and an inability to relate to reality.
Of course Putin is a thug - he was trained so to be, and continues to believe that it is an effective avenue to power. Of course the Russian 'security' services and their (e.g. Bulgarian)) offshoots have some 'unsavoury' habits ! Poisoning one's opponents is not limited to the KGB/FSB - CIA and Castro spring to mind and shooting down aircraft triggers a memory of the Vincennes, among others. All of that is the nature of International nastiness and has been so, long since. The matter under discussion was a recently developed much-needed health product. While, for some, it would be unthinkable to divorce it from inbuilt prejudice, some of us looked at it on its own merits. A not unusual sad commentary on modern international affairs!:sad:

highflyer40 1st Apr 2021 10:44


Originally Posted by SaulGoodman (Post 11019854)
4468. The contract the EU has with AZ is basically the same as the UK has with AZ. Fact is that AZ has not been able to deliver the vaccines negotiated in a timely matter. Far from. So whether or not this will result in a court case isn’t important at the moment. It is however safe to say that AZ is failing its deliveries.

that brings me to the aforementioned “export ban”. The EU have no such “ban”. It doesn’t apply for instance to BioNtech as they have now their act together. I think we can all expect starting issues when you roll out such a vaccination process. But with AZ and its deliveries to the EU it has been a mess since day 1. Therefore I believe it is logical that the EU / Italian or Dutch government is implementing export limitations. AZ has exported more then 10 million vaccines to the UK with another 25 million + doses waiting. After questioning from the Dutch government AZ called this “trial doses”. The US, and even the UK has similar limitations in place.
In fact, Pfizer is exporting vaccines from Europe to Canada as the US has export limitations in place.

the vaccin roll out in the EU and various member states has been very poor. I agree. That doesn’t change that AZ is scr*wing up left right and center.

Not quite “the same”. One key item the EU forgot to put in their contract that the UK did. AZ has to pay the UK penalties if they fall behind in their deliveries. The EU deal has no such penalty clause. So like any company in the world in any industry, if you have a finite supply to ship who are you going to ship to? The one that can levy penalties or the one who cannot?

wiggy 1st Apr 2021 11:17


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 11020022)
You folks need to do more research:

The People Who Stare at Fridges

Out off interest 4468 are you working to a script, influenced/C&Ping from the likes of the Daily Mail or is this fiction all your own work?

I ask because funnily enough I've seen similar completely erroneous claims to the one's you are making, pretty much identically worded, pop up on a couple of other active forums in the last 24 hours : "France and Germany are still not vaccinating with the AZ"" Fridges full of the stuff because it's not being administered"......it's either a complete coincidence that a lot of people reading off the same song sheet or somebody somewhere is determined to keep a engineered misinformation campaign going..

FWIW my research is done talking to locals who have had the AZ, my MT (GP in english) and other sources who have been vaccinated in France...

SaulGoodman 1st Apr 2021 11:47


Originally Posted by highflyer40 (Post 11020423)
Not quite “the same”. One key item the EU forgot to put in their contract that the UK did. AZ has to pay the UK penalties if they fall behind in their deliveries. The EU deal has no such penalty clause. So like any company in the world in any industry, if you have a finite supply to ship who are you going to ship to? The one that can levy penalties or the one who cannot?

That is what I more or less wrote. That does not mean that AZ is adhering to the contract. I am not clearing the EU for made mistakes. But I can fully understand the limitations and regulations the EU might place on AZ exports. But BoJo said after weeks of screaming about “Vaccin Nationalism” that we should now “work together”. So we’ll see what happens. At the end of the day the whole world needs a vaccin. That the UK is a few months ahead of the EU and even the US is very well done. Credits to who deserve them. At the end of this pandemic it does not mean much.

Sallyann1234 1st Apr 2021 12:30

Time this thread was renamed "Coronavirus Part 2".




On second thoughts, perhaps "EU Hamsterwheel 2" might be more appropriate.

Just a spotter 1st Apr 2021 12:40


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 11019991)
Well we know that millions of doses are currently stored in the EU. Because they don’t feel able to use it. However they are prepared to prevent exports to those countries that are happy to use it.

EU exports to date, 77 million doses, 21 million of which went to the UK.

From The Irish Times, March 25th 2021


The European Union has exported more vaccine doses than have been administered to citizens within the bloc, according to new figures, with the lion’s share going to the UK.The bloc has received 88 million doses, of which 62 million have so far been given out, new figures released by the European Commission (EC) showed, while it has exported 77 million doses across the world, including to North and South America, Africa, Asia, Australia and New Zealand.

However, the largest portion of 21 million doses went to shore up the UK’s vaccination campaign, according to an EU official, a figure that would make up the bulk of the roughly 30 million doses so far given out in Britain.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/poli...zens-1.4520417

JAS

dead_pan 1st Apr 2021 13:16

Apologies for dragging the thread back on topic, but it was amusing to see a Cornish fisherman being interviewed on the Beeb yesterday, clearly a Nige acolyte as he was desperately trying to polish the turd that is Brexit (I bet he's popular in Cornwall). I particularly enjoyed his line that his business's income had "obviously" declined as a result, but hey he was as busy as ever, albeit shipping boxes to UK customers when only a few short months ago he had been shipping pallets of boxes to Europe.

I also see the UK shellfish trade body is contemplating suing the UK govt for misrepresentation WRT Brexit. Oh, and the Bank of England is desperately putting in place measures to dissuade bankers from relocating to the European mainland. Happy daze.



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