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Arch Stanton 20th Mar 2021 09:05

Brexiteers claiming they voted for Brexit to reduce Globalisation is an hilarious example of clutching at straws and claiming any benefit, however tenuous, because they cannot think of any other single economic or social benefit resulting from their disastrous choice. Slowly, but surely, most brexiteers I know are beginning to admit they may have got it wrong.....and don’t say we didn’t warn you

SWBKCB 20th Mar 2021 09:20


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11012552)
I agree with you, and @andrewn on that, there is more to things than price and profit, there is a balance to be struck, and the balance has tipped too far towards profit and wealth creation. That's not a parochial EU issue though, and being in or out of the EU has no bearing. Europe is our back yard.

The issue is offshoring manufacturing and jobs to China, India, Vietnam, Korea, etc. etc.

Apart from that is exactly what the EU was designed for - the easy movement of capital and labour to maximise profit and wealth creation. Making it easier to go on your holidays was just a side effect. You can't say globisation/offshoring etc is bad and then moan about losing the fantastic opportunities of leaving a massive free trade area

ATNotts 20th Mar 2021 09:59


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11012581)
Apart from that is exactly what the EU was designed for - the easy movement of capital and labour to maximise profit and wealth creation. Making it easier to go on your holidays was just a side effect. You can't say globisation/offshoring etc is bad and then moan about losing the fantastic opportunities of leaving a massive free trade area

The EU is about many things, I would say that "regionalisation" may be more appropriate than globalisation, especially when you consider that Brexiteers believe the EU is protectionist; that is anything but globalist. One of the very negative consequences of over-globalisation is the loss of control and overly complicated / long supply chains. We are seeing the consequences of this, to some extent in the issues relating to global container shipping and the covid related shortage of air cargo capacity which is, allegedly, now beginning to right itself. Although given the issues Mrs ATN is still having relating to securing air cargo capacity at what clients consider to be a reasonable price I think the jury is still out on that one.

Economics101 20th Mar 2021 10:13

Hilarious how Brexiteers here say "globalisation has gone too far" and yet the Brexiteer UK Government bangs on about "Global Britain",

A more globalised world tends to me more competitive. If you want to have a check on "greed" then competition is the answer.

Crosswind Limits 20th Mar 2021 10:53


Originally Posted by Economics101 (Post 11012622)
Hilarious how Brexiteers here say "globalisation has gone too far" and yet the Brexiteer UK Government bangs on about "Global Britain",

A more globalised world tends to me more competitive. If you want to have a check on "greed" then competition is the answer.

Not everyone who thinks globalisation has gone too far is a Brexiteer! It’s this kind of deliberate characterisation of everything as either black or white that doesn’t help any cause. Granted I was never a hard core Remainer but that’s where I voted and would possibly still vote that way. I have however completely accepted the decision and will not get into a debate about the pros and cons, suffice to say that nothing is as black and white as some would have us believe!

Ask me in 5-10 years and I will tell you what I think. Cock up, stroke of genius or just damn lucky!

4468 20th Mar 2021 11:45


Originally Posted by Crosswind Limits (Post 11012650)
Not everyone who thinks globalisation has gone too far is a Brexiteer! It’s this kind of deliberate characterisation of everything as either black or white that doesn’t help any cause. Granted I was never a hard core Remainer but that’s where I voted and would possibly still vote that way. I have however completely accepted the decision and will not get into a debate about the pros and cons, suffice to say that nothing is as black and white as some would have us believe!

Ask me in 5-10 years and I will tell you what I think. Cock up, stroke of genius or just damn lucky!

Couldn’t have put it any better!

:D:D:D

Arch Stanton 20th Mar 2021 11:47


Originally Posted by Crosswind Limits (Post 11012650)
Not everyone who thinks globalisation has gone too far is a Brexiteer!

I have however completely accepted the decision and will not get into a debate about the pros and cons

Nobody here has suggested people who ‘think globalisation has gone too far’ are all brexiteers. What was suggested is that the brexiteers are jumping on this one possible advantage, and in hindsight claiming it was the reason they voted leave because they cannot think of anything else.

As for stating you ‘will not get into a debate about the pros and cons’ of leaving...why even mention that on a forum specifically created to debate that very subject. It is a catchphrase used by politicians who are not prepared to have their opinions scrutinised or questioned

4468 20th Mar 2021 13:39


As for stating you ‘will not get into a debate about the pros and cons’ of leaving...why even mention that on a forum specifically created to debate that very subject. It is a catchphrase used by politicians who are not prepared to have their options scrutinised and questioned
There’s no debate here. Only ad hominem attacks from the powerless supercilious.

Arch Stanton 20th Mar 2021 14:07


Originally Posted by 4468 (Post 11012733)
There’s no debate here. Only ad hominem attacks from the powerless supercilious.

You are correct, there is no debate here....because brexiteers have continually stated they are not prepared to debate any material benefits to the UK since leaving the EU. You are the people who are not debating!

And the irony of you constantly whining about ad hominem attacks while calling people ‘powerless supercilious’, whatever that means, has gone completely over your head

old,not bold 20th Mar 2021 15:24


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 11011875)
Our motorways operate way beyond capacity and A and B roads are in a shocking state, in dangerously poor repair in many areas. The amount of HGV traffic on the roads is a significant contributory factor to both, so I for one have no issues with the reduction in numbers of foreign trucks on our roads.

If the offset for me is my local supermarket doesn't always stock some random Dutch flowers or French cheese or whatever, then that's a price I'm perfectly happy to pay.

I wouldn't disagree. However the point I was trying to make is that, as a consequence of the dreadful deal struck by BoJo and the hassle and costs at the border, EU buyers are now buying from Irish manufacturers rather than UK ones, thus driving a few more nails into the coffin that the UK economy has become as a result of Brexit. Hence the demand for a direct ferry service from Ireland to the rest of the EU.

SWBKCB 20th Mar 2021 15:50


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11012611)
The EU is about many things, I would say that "regionalisation" may be more appropriate than globalisation, especially when you consider that Brexiteers believe the EU is protectionist; that is anything but globalist. One of the very negative consequences of over-globalisation is the loss of control and overly complicated / long supply chains. We are seeing the consequences of this, to some extent in the issues relating to global container shipping and the covid related shortage of air cargo capacity which is, allegedly, now beginning to right itself. Although given the issues Mrs ATN is still having relating to securing air cargo capacity at what clients consider to be a reasonable price I think the jury is still out on that one.

So what's the difference betweeen outsourcing to Slovakia or Portugal rather than China, India, Vietnam, Korea, or employing cheap Romanians or Latvians rather than Thai's or Ukranians?

ATNotts 20th Mar 2021 16:09


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11012786)
So what's the difference betweeen outsourcing to Slovakia or Portugal rather than China, India, Vietnam, Korea, or employing cheap Romanians or Latvians rather than Thai's or Ukranians?

1. Shorter supply chains

2. Employs Europeans

There are numerous regions of Europe where manufacturing has been destroyed as work was outsourced to China, Vietnam etc which has resulted in long term unemployment and poverty.

WB627 20th Mar 2021 17:10

Globalisation :confused: I think that ship sailed at least two centuries ago and you won't get the genie back in the bottle :rolleyes:


ThorMos 20th Mar 2021 17:14


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11012816)
Globalisation :confused: I think that ship sailed at least two centuries ago and you won't get the genie back in the bottle :rolleyes:

and.. it is debatable that 'we' (germans, europeans, british) are not winners of globalisation. Would you want to
swap with africans, south americans, south-east asians?

Denti 21st Mar 2021 13:52

Manfred Weber, leader of the EPP, the biggest and center right coalition in the European Parliament, commented in a piece in Der Spiegel on Friday that there will be no ratification of the TCA if the differences over the NI protocol will not be resolved. He noted that there would simply not be enough time for the EP to do that if no solution to the conflict has been found until the Easter weekend.

https://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausla...c-eb32ce79ea73

andrewn 21st Mar 2021 15:26


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11012816)
Globalisation :confused: I think that ship sailed at least two centuries ago and you won't get the genie back in the bottle :rolleyes:

As others have said, it's not always black and white, i.e. globalisation or not. It's more nuanced than that, let me give you an example... A couple of years ago I stopped at a delightful farmhouse b&b in Wiltshire. When I went to rebook for next year I was told that wasn't possible because they wouldn't be here. They were tenant farmers and the farm, and a large chunk of surrounding land, had been bought by Chinese investors and our b&b hosts had been given notice to leave. To me that's globalisation gone crazy and there should be appropriate checks and balances in place to prevent that type of "foreign direct investment".

Another example, opposite end of the spectrum, large parts of land around Manchester Airport are being torn up and developed into ghastly warehousing, more hotels, business parks, etc. Where's the money coming from for this horrendous wheeze? You guessed it, China. Again, why, who benefits from this stuff? Basically, it's just a free for all where our land is flogged off to the highest bidder for the purpose of making maximum profit. All wrong, in my opinion.

pug 21st Mar 2021 15:31


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 11013342)
As others have said, it's not always black and white, i.e. globalisation or not. It's more nuanced than that, let me give you an example... A couple of years ago I stopped at a delightful farmhouse b&b in Wiltshire. When I went to rebook for next year I was told that wasn't possible because they wouldn't be here. They were tenant farmers and the farm, and a large chunk of surrounding land, had been bought by Chinese investors and our b&b hosts had been given notice to leave. To me that's globalisation gone crazy and there should be appropriate checks and balances in place to prevent that type of "foreign direct investment".

Another example, opposite end of the spectrum, large parts of land around Manchester Airport are being torn up and developed into ghastly warehousing, more hotels, business parks, etc. Where's the money coming from for this horrendous wheeze? You guessed it, China. Again, why, who benefits from this stuff? Basically, it's just a free for all where our land is flogged off to the highest bidder for the purpose of making maximum profit. All wrong, in my opinion.

I can see your point, but I think you’re directing the blame at the wrong institution. Surely there will be more examples of this in ‘Global Britain’? Have to keep the ship floating somehow, and I can’t see us going back to a system of petty feudalism.

WB627 21st Mar 2021 15:34

No ratification of the TCA - No payment of the divorce settlement?


ThorMos 21st Mar 2021 15:41


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11013346)
No ratification of the TCA - No payment of the divorce settlement?

The 'divorce settlement' is part of the Withdrawal agreement.

andrewn 21st Mar 2021 15:42


Originally Posted by pug (Post 11013344)
I can see your point, but I think you’re directing the blame at the wrong institution. Surely there will be more examples of this in ‘Global Britain’? Have to keep the ship floating somehow, and I can’t see us going back to a system of petty feudalism.

Agreed, think I got carried away with my anti globalist rants and forgot this was the Brexit thread! If there is a link I think it's that I did see Brexit, as potentially, being an opportunity to retreat from some of the worst aspects of globalisation. But, as ever, our politicians have a different agenda and are determined to keep the gravy train flowing, whatever way they can. Of course, whether there's any substance to "Global Britain" (beyond the headline) is another point entirely...


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