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Torquetalk 5th Mar 2021 14:00

I think that is GY‘s purpose. Keep ‘em coming 👍

dead_pan 5th Mar 2021 14:05


Originally Posted by grottyyottie (Post 11002455)
Agree with LTNman who makes important points.
Thank goodness we got out from this cartel of unelected bullies. That they behave in the way they do, is no surprise to many of us.
Attitudes and behaviours, always so revealing.
We have a great future ahead of us. They have a formidable competitor a few miles away. You can smell the stink of their fear.
gy

Did anyone else think of the Crimson Permanent Assurance whilst reading this?


dead_pan 5th Mar 2021 14:11


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11002445)
An insight into the future.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/...n-s-next-moves

Barnier and France fear Brexit Britain’s next moves

Hmm - the UK is France's closest military partner?? Puh-lease.

WB627 5th Mar 2021 14:14

Well I have been asking "how will this work without breaching the GFA" for some years now and no one has ever given me an answer to that question, but I guess we now know for certain that it canot work. I don't think this would have been such a huge issue, but for the "paramilitaries" who are obviously struggling to, or will struggle to get their "merchandise" in to NI or across the Irish border unchecked. Which is why they are kicking off.

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov....0drug%20supply.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/link...enied-1.376558

As far as I can see Article 16 can be used by both sides as they see fit; so we will use it to keep trade flowing unchecked and the EU will use it to put check points on the border :ugh:Short of the UK annexing Southern Ireland, or the EU annexing the North...... oh wait, I think they already did that :oh:.

This is not going to end well :ugh:




ORAC 5th Mar 2021 14:18

Dead_Pan,

Strange but true. They are the only major European military powers willing to support each other OOA, see Mali as an example...

https://www.csis.org/analysis/sticki...se-cooperation

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles...tions-in-mali/


dead_pan 5th Mar 2021 15:11


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 11002498)
Dead_Pan,

Strange but true. They are the only major European military powers willing to support each other OOA, see Mali as an example...

https://www.csis.org/analysis/sticki...se-cooperation

https://www.raf.mod.uk/news/articles...tions-in-mali/

Not really. I would be surprised if any of the senior personnel in either country's armed forces see it this way.

zoigberg 5th Mar 2021 15:27


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 11002495)
Well I have been asking "how will this work without breaching the GFA" for some years now and no one has ever given me an answer to that question, but I guess we now know for certain that it canot work. I don't think this would have been such a huge issue, but for the "paramilitaries" who are obviously struggling to, or will struggle to get their "merchandise" in to NI or across the Irish border unchecked. Which is why they are kicking off.

https://www.nationalcrimeagency.gov....0drug%20supply.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/link...enied-1.376558

As far as I can see Article 16 can be used by both sides as they see fit; so we will use it to keep trade flowing unchecked and the EU will use it to put check points on the border :ugh:Short of the UK annexing Southern Ireland, or the EU annexing the North...... oh wait, I think they already did that :oh:.

This is not going to end well :ugh:

Hmm. Perhaps there should have been some kind of ‘Backstop’ to avoid this happening.......oh no, that wouldn’t work obviously

Or perhaps to have gone down the route of remaining in the Single Market while leaving the European Union...... oh no, that wasn’t acceptable either.

oh yes, what you need is an agreement of over 1000 pages which your own Parliament had one day to read and understand before voting it through by a large majority because this is a demonstration of our Sovereignty in Action.

Ancient Observer 5th Mar 2021 17:03

Whose monumental incompetence should we put up with? That EU lady, the famous Defence Minister from Germany, or our own blond buffoon?

Difficult question.

But...............it's not the Orange Clown.

LowNSlow 5th Mar 2021 21:21

Torquetalk; my basic point was that the procedure to appoint the President of the European Commission, via a selection of one of the Spitzenkanditaten, was completely swept aside because Frau Merkel wanted her pal to have a nice job outside Germany!

Denti 5th Mar 2021 22:29


Originally Posted by LowNSlow (Post 11002787)
Torquetalk; my basic point was that the procedure to appoint the President of the European Commission, via a selection of one of the Spitzenkanditaten, was completely swept aside because Frau Merkel wanted her pal to have a nice job outside Germany!

Yes, that is a valid criticism (although she was presented by Macron first). However, she still needed parliamentary approval, which she nearly didn't get. There is no parliamentary approval process in the UK, by neither the elected nor the unelected house. Not to mention, that no civil servant, and the commission, including its president, is the civil service of the EU, in the UK has ever been elected by anyone at all.

Of course, the "Spitzenkandidaten" thing was in itself rather iffy and not even a gentleman's agreement, but rather a sketchy understanding. There is a valid point to be made to democratize the election of the EU civil service more than it already is, and many politicians and parties in the EU do push for that.

alfaman 5th Mar 2021 22:51


Originally Posted by Denti (Post 11002820)
Yes, that is a valid criticism (although she was presented by Macron first). However, she still needed parliamentary approval, which she nearly didn't get. There is no parliamentary approval process in the UK, by neither the elected nor the unelected house. Not to mention, that no civil servant, and the commission, including its president, is the civil service of the EU, in the UK has ever been elected by anyone at all.

Of course, the "Spitzenkandidaten" thing was in itself rather iffy and not even a gentleman's agreement, but rather a sketchy understanding. There is a valid point to be made to democratize the election of the EU civil service more than it already is, and many politicians and parties in the EU do push for that.

Agree - sadly, the UK won't play any part in making that happen.

Alsacienne 5th Mar 2021 22:57

Euronews tonight was reporting that the UK government are considering allowing UK expats of over 15 years absence from the UK the opportunity to vote again in the UK ..... of course this is after Brexit is done and dusted ....

Krystal n chips 6th Mar 2021 06:16

A little bit more about how the inconvenience of NI was carefully thought through by the UK Gov't along with yet more generous donations to a worthy cause with a track record of success.....

Private Eye In The Back: A right Irish stew (private-eye.co.uk)

occasional 6th Mar 2021 10:15


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 11002262)
It doesn't matter what terms were signed or could have/ should have been signed.

It is simply impossible for Northern Ireland to have no border with the Republic and no border with Great Britain. No agreement of any shape or form can achieve that.

It is perfectly straightforward to have no obvious border - you simply enforce the rules away from the border. That might mean that more minor infringements are not detected, but minor infringements are of very little significance.

Sallyann1234 6th Mar 2021 10:21


Originally Posted by occasional (Post 11003051)
It is perfectly straightforward to have no obvious border - you simply enforce the rules away from the border. That might mean that more minor infringements are not detected, but minor infringements are of very little significance.

The rules ARE the border, wherever they are applied.

ThorMos 6th Mar 2021 10:41


Originally Posted by occasional (Post 11003051)
It is perfectly straightforward to have no obvious border - you simply enforce the rules away from the border. That might mean that more minor infringements are not detected, but minor infringements are of very little significance.

Oh, really, go on... let me just get some popcorn and i'm ready for your interpretation of 'having control over our borders' (TM Ukip), being a third country, being outside of the common market, stopping illegal and legal migrants at the border and much more work without a physical border...
the suspense is killing me...

ATNotts 6th Mar 2021 10:54


Originally Posted by occasional (Post 11003051)
It is perfectly straightforward to have no obvious border - you simply enforce the rules away from the border. That might mean that more minor infringements are not detected, but minor infringements are of very little significance.

I've got a great idea, we could call it Schengen after a small town in Luxembourg, but we would need to join the EU or EEA to take part!!

Denti 6th Mar 2021 11:28


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 11003087)
I've got a great idea, we could call it Schengen after a small town in Luxembourg, but we would need to join the EU or EEA to take part!!

You mean, like Gibraltar? Borders controlled by spanish Frontex guards?

ATNotts 6th Mar 2021 14:11


Originally Posted by Denti (Post 11003105)
You mean, like Gibraltar? Borders controlled by spanish Frontex guards?

No, as per my previous post, only with EU / EEA membership.

In point of fact Frontex ought to be controlling the EU external borders, of which the NI land border is one and unless the UK starts to take agreements seriously that is what will happen.

OilCan 6th Mar 2021 18:13


Originally Posted by gsky (Post 11002361)
Makes me angry too!
but Most people I know who voted leave did so not because of the silly reasons you said, passport/fruit etc", but
because they did not like the fundamental lack of democracy that exists in the EU.
As many have said there has to be goodwill on both sides and both sides have lacked this and whilst I know our democracy is far from perfect,and
our politicians are flawed
, ....... They are frankly bullies . Ours are not much better but at least they are "ours" and unlike e.g Macron care for UK just as Macron cares for France,.....
This view is shared by many in Europe, not all of course, but we are not alone in thinking the politicians across La Manche , have got it wrong.

Just about says it all really; a well thought through cogent argument that considers all the pros and cons and takes responsibility for the outcome. :bored: You won, congratulations, now you have only your own politicians to blame who, by your own admission, are equally......deficient. :uhoh:

They might be "your" politicians but there are many in these lands would not make such a boastful claim. I take it you're one of those "unionist" types who think the UK union is fine provided the other nations do what they're told?

ps. you're right, we are not alone but now we can't support them and they can't support us. :ouch:


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