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ORAC 16th Feb 2021 14:13


Don't you mean your EU passport ?
Havenít got one of those - will my Irish one do?

alicopter 16th Feb 2021 19:36


Originally Posted by 747 jock (Post 10991690)
Does that include the 1+ million Scottish who voted to leave or the 350,000 from NI who voted the same way?

Of course. ALL Scots and Irish are very welcome in France! I am not kidding, the French always seem to be privileging these two people and have a natural attraction and kindness towards them. I have noticed long ago the difference, even with other Southern states. Wonder how to explain this known fact... This said, ALL English are also welcome. Do not take my words seriously, I have never been "serious" so far in my life.

ORAC 16th Feb 2021 21:17


Of course. ALL Scots and Irish are very welcome in France! I am not kidding, the French always seem to be privileging these two people and have a natural attraction and kindness towards them.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Wild_Geese



Sallyann1234 17th Feb 2021 10:19


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10991706)
Havenít got one of those - will my Irish one do?

That's the one I was referring to. You mentioned it before.

KelvinD 17th Feb 2021 10:28

Would that be an Irish passport that says at the top of the front cover "European Union"?

ORAC 17th Feb 2021 11:11


Would that be an Irish passport that says at the top of the front cover "European Union"?
So does my British passport.

I had my Irish passport before either the UK or Ireland joined the EU, and I’ll have both till I die - whether the UK or Ireland is in the EU at the time - and both will be valid for visiting France.

Main reason I might not drop by to see alicopter is I don’t have a car - and from the sound of it he isn’t near a convenient train station...

LTNman 19th Feb 2021 06:16


Originally Posted by alicopter (Post 10991485)
How to put it? All Scots and Irish are more than welcome!!! Regarding the English, only 52 per cent of them are. You can keep the 48 per cent who are narrow minded, xenophobics, old, uneducated, conservative, racists, bigots... (Oh wait! Aren't they the ones the very less likely to emmigrate considering their hate of immigrants?). Any way, we have our very own Farages idiots... Our own English Tradesman is more than welcome, he married my French daughter so is applying for French citizenship and apart from being a football supporter, putting nails in wood when I would use screws and Cheddar on his pasta instead of Gruyere, I cannot fault him!!! (Joke mode... quoi-que!!!)

The French have always had a justifiable inferiority complex with the English, which explains a great deal about how the French government has rubbished the AstraZenica vaccine while having both of its own country’s vaccines fail trials.

With regard to the EU vaccine blunders, would we rather have life or death decisions taken by people we can vote out of power or by an unelected body where nobody ever has to take responsibility for even the most colossal and humiliating of failures?

I know many here loved having their lives controlled by unelected EU officials with no say in how it was run but Brexit has saved lives as the U.K. was urged to join the EU vaccine procurement program by critics of Brexit.

This story from last July, just a month before we placed our first orders

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...vaccine-scheme



The UK’s decision not to join an EU plan to distribute a potential coronavirus vaccine to its most vulnerable citizens has been described as “unforgivable” and condemned by health charities and opposition politicians.

Krystal n chips 19th Feb 2021 07:29


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10993282)
The French have always had a justifiable inferiority complex with the English, which explains a great deal about how the French government has rubbished the AstraZenica vaccine while having both of its own country’s vaccines fail trials.

With regard to the EU vaccine blunders, would we rather have life or death decisions taken by people we can vote out of power or by an unelected body where nobody ever has to take responsibility for even the most colossal and humiliating of failures?

I know many here loved having their lives controlled by unelected EU officials with no say in how it was run but Brexit has saved lives as the U.K. was urged to join the EU vaccine procurement program by critics of Brexit.

This story from last July, just a month before we placed our first orders

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...vaccine-scheme

Phew ! another classic from a seemingly infinite supply of how mainland Europe provides virtuous Blighty with not one, but two, countries ( France and Germany ) to be blamed / disparaged with metronomic monotony .....simply alternate between the two as and when required !

Now, sorry about this, but, some of us prefer the term......integration .....when it comes to our former membership of the EU

As for the vaccines, true, the EU didn't exactly cover itself with glory here, bit of a spectacular own goal in fact, however, I would suggest you take a closer look at the UK's own efforts when it comes to handling the Covid pandemic overall......removal of any roseate tinted glasses first would be useful prior to doing so..

ORAC 19th Feb 2021 07:32

https://www.politicshome.com/news/ar...cabinet-office

David Frost Joining The Cabinet Shows Brexit Is Not Done, Says Sir Ivan Rogers

Boris Johnson appointing David Frost as a minister for the UK's relationship with the EU is an admission that Brexit is an "ongoing and permanent negotiation," the UK's former chief ambassador to Brussels has said.

Downing Street on Wednesday announced that Frost, who led the UK's trade negotiations with the EU, would on March 1 become a minister in the Cabinet Office and a full member of the Cabinet. Frost,... is set to oversee Britain's post-Brexit relationship with the EU and will replace Michael Gove as co-chair of the Withdrawal Agreement Joint Committee, which was set up to oversee the implementation of the Brexit deal........

Sir Ivan Rogers, who was the UK's Permanent Representative to the EU between 2013 and 2017, on Thursday told the EU-UK Forum he believed the move was a "recognition, though they wonít quite put it like that, that this is an ongoing and indeed permanent negotiation, which is what some of us were saying in 2016. We arenít at the end Ė we are at the beginning of a new chapter and thereís plenty still to do.Ē

Despite signing a trade agreement with the bloc in December, and leaving the single market and customs union on New Year's Eve, key elements of the UK's relationship with the EU are still to be determined.........

However, Rogers warned that Johnson's decision to appoint Frost as his de facto Brexit minister was a sign that the government was in no mood to revisit the trade deal struck in December, despite a number of sectors complaining about the disruption it has brought......

But Rogers warned affected industries that Frost will not want to return to the negotiating table.

ďThere is still an expectation of Ďwell they [government] canít really have wanted thatí and Ďthey canít really have realised that this was the true implication for our sector so if we go and lobby them now and demonstrate to them whatís happening on the ground as a consequence of the deal they negotiated, they must want to rejig it, refine it, and reopen the negotiation in 2021í.

ďI suppose in shorthand my advice is: donít believe it guys. We are where we are. Thereís no new negotiation to be had. Thereís no appetite on either side of the table to reopen it. I donít think thatís where David Frost or his boss will be or will want to be. I think that you should get on with life and face the shockĒ.

Rogers predicted that there would be tension between the UK and the EU as they get used to their more distant relationship, telling the event: "Itís going to be a bit spiky, maybe more than a bit spiky. Itís going to be pretty bumpy".

He said: ďWhen I look at where we are and even what has happened over the last six weeks, do I sense an enormous appetite on the part of the Johnson government to have a thick and close and warm relationship with the EU? No, I donít.

ďItís not where he was when he was foreign secretary and when I was working for him. Itís not where heís been as prime minister. Itís not what David Frost tired to negotiate last year. Itís not where they ended up at the end of the last year. We should not be under any illusions".

ATNotts 19th Feb 2021 07:57


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 10993316)
Phew ! another classic from a seemingly infinite supply of how mainland Europe provides virtuous Blighty with not one, but two, countries ( France and Germany ) to be blamed / disparaged with metronomic monotony .....simply alternate between the two as and when required !

Now, sorry about this, but, some of us prefer the term......integration .....when it comes to our former membership of the EU

As for the vaccines, true, the EU didn't exactly cover itself with glory here, bit of a spectacular own goal in fact, however, I would suggest you take a closer look at the UK's own efforts when it comes to handling the Covid pandemic overall......removal of any roseate tinted glasses first would be useful prior to doing so..

Not only this but the blatant lies that people on the former "leave" side of the argument keep on pedalling regarding the "unelected EU officials". In reality, as they well know each and every EU Commissioner is appointed by the democratically elected member state governments, they don't apply for the job, get interviewed by the HR department and parachuted into the role of commissioner. Not only that but the democratically elected EU Parliament vets nominees. Compare and contrast for a moment government advisors (Cummings for example) or Sir David Frost. Did any of us elect either of them? No, they were appointed by the elected Prime Minister and his / her government. It's really a case of "spot the difference" but that simply fails to fit the narrative of Brexiteers.

papajuliet 19th Feb 2021 09:01

When did UK voters get to vote for the EU Commissioners for France, Germany, Italy, Poland etc. etc.?

charliegolf 19th Feb 2021 09:09


Originally Posted by papajuliet (Post 10993374)
When did UK voters get to vote for the EU Commissioners for France, Germany, Italy, Poland etc. etc.?

I'm going out on a limb here, but I suspect there's an internationally agreed treaty that says there's no need for that to happen, we'll just leave that to member states.

CG

ATNotts 19th Feb 2021 09:42


Originally Posted by papajuliet (Post 10993374)
When did UK voters get to vote for the EU Commissioners for France, Germany, Italy, Poland etc. etc.?

That's what's called pooled sovereignty. It isn't about UK voters or indeed any other nation's voters voting for all the positions. I can only imagine the outcry in the UK, when it was a member, and indeed from some current states were all EU citizens allowed to vote democratically for offices like EC President.

Problem is that among some people there is a kind of mindset that the UK, in particular, but not exclusively has to have control over everything.

Denti 19th Feb 2021 10:12


Originally Posted by papajuliet (Post 10993374)
When did UK voters get to vote for the EU Commissioners for France, Germany, Italy, Poland etc. etc.?

When did UK voters get a say in their newest Brexit minister who is not elected into any role by any voters? Simply an unelected official that one, not even a HoC confirmation hearing and vote there, unlike all EU commissioners who have to be confirmed by the EU parliament (and can be rejected) after a confirmation hearing in which they are thoroughly vetted by all MEPs...

BizJetJock 19th Feb 2021 10:14


We are where we are. There’s no new negotiation to be had
Well that's nonsense, because the TCA specifically details quite a lot of areas that are to be subject to further discussions.

alicopter 19th Feb 2021 10:18


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10993282)
The French have always had a justifiable inferiority complex with the English, which explains a great deal about how the French government has rubbished the AstraZenica vaccine while having both of its own country’s vaccines fail trials.

Not trying to defend "French Attitude" regarding the reluctance, like many other countries to use Astra Zeneca brand of vaxs but, if you listen to the Radio like I do most of the day and you hear that it is useless on over 60s, on new Covid variants, and may be more importantly that trials were rushed through and a bit of a gamble (that luckily turned out ok), that side effects are more common than expected and even more detrimental... that it was more a commercial venture than a humanitarian one. With news that South Africa paid 2,5 times the price per dose that the EU paid it does not, somehow, sound so attractive. The soi-disant french inferiority complex that's talked about above? OMG! The French are the most arrogant people I know and the most "Big Headed" to the point of, for me who has been lucky to travel a lot finding it embarrassing. But, like the Brits can be depicted as Corner Shop Grocers, you can call the French culturally more Altruists and Socialists. Our Centre Right is so Left of Labour it was shocking the last 3 decades.... I have lived 26 years in the UK in rural Suffolk and do not find the Associative, local Solidarity and Communal Activities I find in rural Normandy or Provence where I have other residences...

@Orac, no train station in the nearest village six kms away but regular buses lines with, as I have experienced myself, the bus driver adding 10 minutes (off his route) to his journey time to just take you at your destination via one track lanes!!!! Should you visit, I am sure I can find the 45 minutes to go pick you up at the Ferry Port and take you back there (if we have not "fallen out" through arguing non stop since from your posts on here, I do not think we're going to have a single aggreement)!!! But it's always a pleasure to share a feast when all what you eat and drink comes from a maximum of 300 metres away, is humanely, lovingly and organicaly produced!

ORAC 19th Feb 2021 10:56


Not trying to defend "French Attitude" regarding the reluctance, like many other countries to use Astra Zeneca brand of vaxs but, if you listen to the Radio like I do most of the day and you hear that it is useless on over 60s, on new Covid variants, and may be more importantly that trials were rushed through and a bit of a gamble (that luckily turned out ok), that side effects are more common than expected and even more detrimental... that it was more a commercial venture than a humanitarian one. With news that South Africa paid 2,5 times the price per dose that the EU paid it does not, somehow, sound so attractive.
Which just goes to show that disinformation isn’t just the tool of antivaxxers and the Russians.

The above allegations being either entirely false or lies by omission.



ATNotts 19th Feb 2021 11:04


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10993474)
Which just goes to show that disinformation isnít just the tool of antivaxxers and the Russians.

The above allegations being either entirely false or lies by omission.

Allegations regarding the AZ vaccine and it's efficacy have been made in a number of countries. Its entirely possible that there may be something in them, even though they may be exaggerated, but equally the UK and our media seem perhaps over protective because its 'the Oxford vaccine'.

I will happily take whatever vaccine is offered to me, any protection is better than none.

Effluent Man 19th Feb 2021 14:13

Got my first dose on Monday. Hoping it's Pfizer.

Sallyann1234 19th Feb 2021 14:58


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 10993600)
Got my first dose on Monday. Hoping it's Pfizer.

If it's at a large vaccination centre, Pfizer. At your GP, AZ. This according to 100% of recipients posting on a health forum a couple of weeks ago. May be different now of course.


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