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Pontius Navigator 7th Aug 2019 20:15


Originally Posted by ThorMos (Post 10539235)
You're lying, that were the Tory-Members, not the MPs.

Thor, you are being mendacious.

The original post that you questioned stated 'by his MPs and party member's but chose to highlight only MPs.

The Tory Party Members elected BJ from the final two elected by the Tory MPs. To suggest the MPs 'selected ' rather than 'elected ' or 'by elimination ' is pedantry.

​​​​​​​Don't accuse me of lying.

racedo 7th Aug 2019 21:42


Originally Posted by ChrisVJ (Post 10538718)
Not my purview these days but I think GB may well be able to negotiate acceptable trade deals because you will not have the long tail of EU special interests holding you back.

For instance you could be importing New Zealand lamb without the tariffs propped up by French farmers and I am sure NZ must need something GB produces in return.

The EU can only negotiate huge complicated deals with numerous exceptions.. The idea that no one will do business with you after you leave the EU is ridiculous. Once the dust settles the EU themselves will want to deal as they have stuff they need to sell. Can you imagine the French wine producers giving up such a big local market (with a big tariff against them) to all the others who would want to jump in, Californians, Australians, Argentinians and lots more.

JMHO of course.

Lets not let things like FACTs get in the way of that.

UK exports more sheep products than it imports and it is to EU it does so, NZ are not using anything close to their quotas to EU and in all likelihood all that will happen is EU will buy from NZ and the 74,000 tonnes that UK currently exports will go nowhere with a likely increase in prices for French farmers.

EU lamb imports in the first half of 2018: New Zealand favouring Asia - AHDB Beef & Lamb

Will imports of lamb from New Zealand return to normal in 2019? - AHDB Beef & Lamb

Krystal n chips 8th Aug 2019 05:13

"Dear Dominic,

Just a quickie to say I thought the way you swaggered up to the podium with that self adulatory smirk on your face to tell the plebs and oiks about the fab trade deals with the USA you've been told by Donald to tell us about was brilliant stuff......either that or your facial expression was the after effect of too many gherkins and onions on a cheeseburger.

Anyway, we've been jolly busy while your away. No less than three of us had a days excursion to that place you were confused about. Here we are in our snazzy hi viz vests which we had to wear to stop us being clattered by passing trucks, and would you believe some really nasty people said this would be a real benefit to the UK if we had been !...not that there will be any passing trucks soon because they'll all be parked up all over Kent.....how's that for really smart thinking and planning eh !...Of course, you always get those who think just because they do the job they know better than politicians so I gave them a passing mention to placate them in another of my inspirational speeches to the nation in the interview at the end.

See you very soon and we can't wait to hear about those deals you've been told to accept in more detail .

Best wishes ( until I can stab you in the back at some point )

Michael "

https://www.channel4.com/news/were-n...say-uk-customs

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...t-dominic-raab

PS What do you think about Boris's latest wheeze .....this is going to be a sure fire vote winner and success and just because previous IT systems and Gov'ts have been a complete and expensive disaster doesn't mean this one will be.....until the development begins of course, by which time we won't be in office anyway and can duly blame Labour !

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...l-intelligence

ThorMos 8th Aug 2019 08:12


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10539417)
Thor, you are being mendacious.

The original post that you questioned stated 'by his MPs and party member's but chose to highlight only MPs.

The Tory Party Members elected BJ from the final two elected by the Tory MPs. To suggest the MPs 'selected ' rather than 'elected ' or 'by elimination ' is pedantry.

​​​​​​​Don't accuse me of lying.

I accuse you of lying because you know exactly what i mean. The fact that the prime minister is NOT ELECTED BY THE PARLIAMENT just by his party is way beyond my comprehension. I didn't realize (sic) this before Boris enthronement.

Sorry, but take this from somebody who (believe it or not) likes the UK and has many friends there for whom he cares: Your parliamentary system is way out of date and you should reform it.

ORAC 8th Aug 2019 08:41

The Prime Minister is not elected, the PM is selected by the Queen as the person most likely to enjoy the confidence of the House of Commons and, with the other appointed Crown Ministers, provide the executive representing “the Queen in Parliament”.

Which is is why they remain in office, and power, after a dissolution of Parliament for an election when nobody at all in the country is a member of parliament, just ordinary citizens.

Pontius Navigator 8th Aug 2019 08:56

ThorMos, I didn't realise you were ignorant of the system. Prime Ministers are chosen differently from Presidents. Presidents may be backed by parties but may be directly elected as in the USA or by representatives as in the EU. I don't know enough about other States.

Prime Ministers are chosen from parties that can form a Government and not by all the MPs. How that is done in detail will differ from country to country.

Essentially Presidents and Prime Ministers chosen by different routes unless your name is Vladimir.

Krystal n chips 8th Aug 2019 09:03

" Essentially Presidents and Prime Ministers chosen by different routes unless your name is Vladimir "

Or you are the current PM of the UK supported, endorsed and indirectly chosen by a President......

NoelEvans 8th Aug 2019 09:25


Originally Posted by ThorMos (Post 10539844)
I accuse you of lying because you know exactly what i mean. The fact that the prime minister is NOT ELECTED BY THE PARLIAMENT just by his party is way beyond my comprehension. I didn't realize (sic) this before Boris enthronement.

...

You should go easy on accusing someone of lying simply because you do not understand the system yourself.

If you find Boris's "enthronement" to be "way beyond [your] comprehension", then you have clearly not looked at details of Gordon Brown's "enthronement"!!


Originally Posted by ThorMos (Post 10539844)
...

Sorry, but take this from somebody who (believe it or not) likes the UK and has many friends there for whom he cares: Your parliamentary system is way out of date and you should reform it.

Take a bit of time to understand the UK's parliamentary system before criticising it 'from the outside'.

Posts by Pontius Navigator and ORAC should be able to help you a bit.

As for our 'resident leftie' (the 'dot diarrhea' sufferer) with his views on "the current PM" , I would like to see a detailed 'compare and contrast' between the processes of Gordon Brown and Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister.

Krystal n chips 8th Aug 2019 12:16


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10539916)
You should go easy on accusing someone of lying simply because you do not understand the system yourself.

If you find Boris's "enthronement" to be "way beyond [your] comprehension", then you have clearly not looked at details of Gordon Brown's "enthronement"!!

Take a bit of time to understand the UK's parliamentary system before criticising it 'from the outside'.

Posts by Pontius Navigator and ORAC should be able to help you a bit.

As for our 'resident leftie' (the 'dot diarrhea' sufferer) with his views on "the current PM" , I would like to see a detailed 'compare and contrast' between the processes of Gordon Brown and Boris Johnson becoming Prime Minister.

Dear (BA Calcutta..failed ) well ok..... sub-editor ...failed>>>>>>does one take it you are referring to moi perchance ?

If so, all one can say, is, one has no recollection of a US President, on a State visit, openly supporting the next, as he was at the time, potential UK PM......during the transition from Blair to Brown.........if you do, please feel free to exemplify such an endorsement with regard to Brown ............................................................ thank you.


Blacksheep 8th Aug 2019 12:34


Or you are the current PM of the UK supported, endorsed and indirectly chosen by a President......
If you really think that the endorsement by Donald Trump had anything whatsoever to do with Boris Johnson being chosen as party leader by Conservative Party members, you're simply deluded.

As for him becoming Prime Minister, that's just the way it is. HM the Queen performs Her duty by inviting the person who is most likely to command a majority in Parliament to be Prime Minister. The Prime Minister and other Ministers may or may not be MPs (they can be from the House of Lords as well as the Commons) but they remain in office until HM the Queen invites someone else to be Prime Minister after a general election or resignation. I think it was William III who last actually sacked an incumbent..

NoelEvans 8th Aug 2019 12:41


Originally Posted by Krystal n chips (Post 10540062)
... UK PM......during the transition from Blair to Brown.........if you do, please feel free to exemplify such an endorsement with regard to Brown ............................................................ thank you.

(You need to take something for those dots, they look painful.)

I cannot imagine that anyone could come up with any foreign leader having endorsed Brown. Even Chavez seemed to keep his distance!!

Fly Aiprt 8th Aug 2019 12:49

Well gentlemen,

When one sees the amount af animosity between British countrymen, no wonder Europe's marriage with the UK has been an unhappy one...
What interests "other" people is not the way the UK Prime Minister has been chosen, elected, designated or else, but rather what the country that voted leave have been doing to prepare for the fateful event they already tried to avert several times.

Also because we like our future ex-partner, we'd like to know whether they'll actually quit, whether they'll succeed once they're on their own (we like them, remember), or whether they'll decline.

At the moment I have the feeling that most of the leavers haven't done anything apart from dreaming of a rose garden, playing harp while all the nations ouside in the gloom are queuing up to offer advantageous deals and free gifts.

NoelEvans 8th Aug 2019 12:58


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10540083)
Well gentlemen,

When one sees the amount af animosity between British countrymen ...

Hilarious! Especially coming from 'yellow vest land'!

Fly Aiprt 8th Aug 2019 13:20


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10540086)
Hilarious! Especially coming from 'yellow vest land'!

Well well well, this might seem as discrinating me because of where my posts are from...

wiggy 8th Aug 2019 14:21


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10540086)
Hilarious! Especially coming from 'yellow vest land'!

Not quite sure what "animosity between .. countrymen" has to do with the intent of the gilet jaune movement.


ORAC 8th Aug 2019 14:23


The Prime Minister and other Ministers may or may not be MPs (they can be from the House of Lords as well as the Commons)
They don’t have to be from either. When Alec Douglas-Home was chosen as party leader he resigned his seat in the Lords in order to take part in a by-election. Hence he served 2 weeks as PM as an neither peer nor MP.

Similarly, ministers have been appointed to their posts before gaining a seat but in the expectation that they will do so. For example, in October 1964 Patrick Gordon Walker was appointed Foreign Secretary by Harold Wilson, despite having lost his seat at the preceding General Election. He stood in a by-election in January of the following year, only to lose again and had to resign from the Government as a result.

yellowtriumph 8th Aug 2019 14:28


Originally Posted by Blacksheep (Post 10540071)
If you really think that the endorsement by Donald Trump had anything whatsoever to do with Boris Johnson being chosen as party leader by Conservative Party members, you're simply deluded.

As for him becoming Prime Minister, that's just the way it is. HM the Queen performs Her duty by inviting the person who is most likely to command a majority in Parliament to be Prime Minister. The Prime Minister and other Ministers may or may not be MPs (they can be from the House of Lords as well as the Commons) but they remain in office until HM the Queen invites someone else to be Prime Minister after a general election or resignation. I think it was William III who last actually sacked an incumbent..

Did not the present Queen dismiss Gough Whitlam?

Fly Aiprt 8th Aug 2019 14:32


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 10540136)
Not quite sure what "animosity between .. countrymen" has to do with the intent of the gilet jaune movement.

Nothing to do I suppose.
Just another ad hominem response from an embarrassed poster...

Krystal n chips 8th Aug 2019 14:36


Originally Posted by Blacksheep (Post 10540071)
If you really think that the endorsement by Donald Trump had anything whatsoever to do with Boris Johnson being chosen as party leader by Conservative Party members, you're simply deluded.

As for him becoming Prime Minister, that's just the way it is. HM the Queen performs Her duty by inviting the person who is most likely to command a majority in Parliament to be Prime Minister. The Prime Minister and other Ministers may or may not be MPs (they can be from the House of Lords as well as the Commons) but they remain in office until HM the Queen invites someone else to be Prime Minister after a general election or resignation. I think it was William III who last actually sacked an incumbent..

Ok, about my delusions.

First, Trump is a dedicated private sector supporter. The deals, or rather the limited information available so far, includes the phrase " everything is on the table ".......and dear to Tory hearts is profits over services and privatisation....this includes, allegedly but emphatically denied thus far, so we can take it as a definite, the NHS and there are plenty who would dearly love to get their grubby little paws on a lucrative market like this entity. Irrespective of how skewed any deal(s) are in the USA's favour, there has to be the concession that allows some in the UK to benefit from a deal.....hence Boris being openly endorsed by Trump offers them reassurance there will only be token and cosmetic objections raised.

As for a commanding a majority. most are off on their holidays so the HoC is effectively closed for business.....it's when they return, after exchanging their "this is us at " snaps the fun begins .......remind us of the current Gov't majority again and then add into the mix those who he's summarily dumped or who left of their own accord and think how they will affect the votes when needed.

Of course, when Boris says he wouldn't go even with a vote of "no confidence " then it's reassuring to know the UK is in such capable and dedicated political hands.

Coming soon.....An Act of Parliament making it mandatory for the BBC to screen the "State of the Union " address, in full, with repeats on the hour thereafter.

denachtenmai 8th Aug 2019 16:02


.remind us of the current Gov't majority again and then add into the mix those who he's summarily dumped or who left of their own accord and think how they will affect the votes when needed.
Remind us of how many seats Labour would lose if McDonnell, .....................................................et al, .......................................get their way and back another indyref for Scotland and it succeeds.


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