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Non Linear Gear 20th Dec 2020 22:08


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10951329)
Well I'll plan for success whilst leaving you and others on here to assume failure...

DO you actually add value to UK PLC? Run a business that adds to the value to this country and people, I will take your points with merit. If not, I will not

Effluent Man 20th Dec 2020 22:15

You clearly swallow the de Pfeffel line on optimism hook, line and sinker. Whereas most people prefer realism. Maybe the cross channel hold ups that are now starting are just what you need to be jolted back to reality.

andrewn 20th Dec 2020 22:20


Originally Posted by Non Linear Gear (Post 10951335)
DO you actually add value to UK PLC? Run a business that adds to the value to this country and people, I will take your points with merit. If not, I will not

I pay my taxes and always have done, not willing to divulge more on what is too personal a question for me on an open forum.

andrewn 20th Dec 2020 22:25


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 10951339)
You clearly swallow the de Pfeffel line on optimism hook, line and sinker. Whereas most people prefer realism. Maybe the cross channel hold ups that are now starting are just what you need to be jolted back to reality.

I said above I've no real interest in HGVs queuing at ports. The RHA is a supremely powerful lobby group, feel sure they'll have a brainwave or two up their sleeve. As noted above, the Covid travel restrictions are a far more material threat to their business model than Brexit will ever be.

ORAC 20th Dec 2020 22:29


DO you actually add value to UK PLC? Run a business that adds to the value to this country and people, I will take your points with merit. If not, I will not
I know, it’s terrible the riff-raff and women having the vote, so much better when it was just men who owned property.....


Travel - cheap £ does not help much and we lost the opportunity to live, study and work in Europe on equal basis with the locals.
I know, and even worse, you just can’t get those cheap foreigners over here to fill the shelves in Pret A Manger...

I am reminded of the scene in the Life of Brian where the Rabbi is telling the blasphemer he will “only make it worse for himself” in continuing to say Jehovah - and he replies by asking - “how”?

ATNotts 20th Dec 2020 22:30


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10951343)
I said above I've no real interest in HGVs queuing at ports. The RHA is a supremely powerful lobby group, feel sure they'll have a brainwave or two up their sleeve. As noted above, the Covid travel restrictions are a far more material threat to their business model than Brexit will ever be.

I am not generally this combative, but for heavens sake, in which parallel universe are you in, or what are you smoking???

WB627 20th Dec 2020 22:38

The government is checking the food stocks held by supermarkets.

So at least we will know when the food will run out. Hope they have plenty of compo rations in stock :E


Big_D 20th Dec 2020 22:43


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 10951358)
The government is checking the food stocks held by supermarkets.

So at least we will know when the food will run out. Hope they have plenty of compo rations in stock :E

A rehearsal for the D-Day :D

Big_D 20th Dec 2020 22:47


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10951347)
I know, it’s terrible the riff-raff and women having the vote, so much better when it was just men who owned property.....

I know, and even worse, you just can’t get those cheap foreigners over here to fill the shelves in Pret A Manger...

I am reminded of the scene in the Life of Brian where the Rabbi is telling the blasphemer he will “only make it worse for himself” in continuing to say Jehovah - and he replies by asking - “how”?

Is keeping Polish students who work part-time in Pret out is the strongest argument is support of this Tory Brexit? You must be a very depressing person.

andrewn 20th Dec 2020 22:48


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 10951351)
I am not generally this combative, but for heavens sake, in which parallel universe are you in, or what are you smoking???

Cut me some slack ATN, i've been fighting a lone battle this evening.... (until ORAC just jumped in).

Admittedly I'm getting flippant, but as said I'm tired of Remoaners. I just find it disheartening there's still so many people that refuse to even acknowledge there's more to life than shipping consumable goods around the globe, at the lowest possible price.

Has climate change and Covid taught people nothing? The era of unnecessary growth and globalisation has got to end. We need to move to a more sustainable economic model that re-distributes wealth much more evenly, and reduces our environmental footprint.

andrewn 20th Dec 2020 22:50


Originally Posted by WB627 (Post 10951358)
The government is checking the food stocks held by supermarkets.

So at least we will know when the food will run out. Hope they have plenty of compo rations in stock :E

Should sort the obesity problem WB. Do let me know when you've got more doom and gloom to impart.

andrewn 20th Dec 2020 22:54


Originally Posted by Big_D (Post 10951363)
Is keeping Polish students who work part-time in Pret out is the strongest argument is support of this Tory Brexit? You must be a very depressing person.

Sadly Big D it's people that think cheap imported labour is the answer to all our problems, that created the mess we are now in...

Effluent Man 20th Dec 2020 22:55

And Jacob Rees Mogg and John Redwood are those people who will distribute that wealth more evenly? Pleeease! They want NoDeal as the first step towards a Singapore type economy. We have the lip service to policies like minimum wage then see the country awash with zero hours contracts and people doing several part time jobs before paying half their wages in rent to a private landlord. You people are seriously short on economic knowledge.

Big_D 20th Dec 2020 23:00


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10951364)
Cut me some slack ATN, i've been fighting a lone battle this evening.... (until ORAC just jumped in).

Admittedly I'm getting flippant, but as said I'm tired of Remoaners. I just find it disheartening there's still so many people that refuse to even acknowledge there's more to life than shipping consumable goods around the globe, at the lowest possible price.

Has climate change and Covid taught people nothing? The era of unnecessary growth and globalisation has got to end. We need to move to a more sustainable economic model that re-distributes wealth much more evenly, and reduces our environmental footprint.

But, but Global Britain...

andrewn 20th Dec 2020 23:01


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 10951368)
And Jacob Rees Mogg and John Redwood are those people who will distribute that wealth more evenly? Pleeease! They want NoDeal as the first step towards a Singapore type economy. We have the lip service to policies like minimum wage then see the country awash with zero hours contracts and people doing several part time jobs before paying half their wages in rent to a private landlord. You people are seriously short on economic knowledge.

What "No Deal" - you mean that one that hasn't happened yet, of course? As for the rest of your post that sounds more like current state than future?

JRM - can't abide the man, should not be allowed out in daylight hours. But when you're up against Remoaners like Blair, Brown and Osborne it's difficult to pick a least favourite....

andrewn 20th Dec 2020 23:03


Originally Posted by Big_D (Post 10951369)
But, but Global Britain...

Yep, like Build Build Build, HS2, RIS2, 300k new homes per annum, building on greenfield, LHR R3. All yesterday's answers to tomorrow's problems.

But tell me why the Tories are any more deluded on this stuff than any other mainstream party?

Big_D 20th Dec 2020 23:14


Originally Posted by andrewn (Post 10951374)
Yep, like Build Build Build, HS2, RIS2, 300k new homes per annum, building on greenfield, LHR R3. All yesterday's answers to tomorrow's problems.

But tell me why the Tories are any more deluded on this stuff than any other mainstream party?

Look, Brexiteers need to make their minds up. Either, we become reliant on domestic supply chain (reminder that 50% of our food is imported from Europe) or we become Global Britain agreeing FTAs left, right and centre. No wonder there were two Leave campaigns.

andrewn 20th Dec 2020 23:23


Originally Posted by Big_D (Post 10951380)
Look, Brexiteers need to make their minds up. Either, we become reliant on domestic supply chain (reminder that 50% of our food is imported from Europe) or we become Global Britain agreeing FTAs left, right and centre. No wonder there were two Leave campaigns.

Does it have to be that polarising though? I know it's popular these days to be ultra hard line, but why can't we come to a deal with our EU friends whilst still preserving the right to independence in things like free movement, immigration, sovereignty - all areas that drove out the Leave vote, whether you care to admit it or not...

Effluent Man 21st Dec 2020 00:10

I'm afraid Andrew that the above post goes a long way towards explaining your views. A deal happens when the two sides can agree to the fair distribution of the spoils and we have reached the stage where the things that you list are not those that are blocking a deal. Primarily these things are level playing field rules and fish.

A level playing field with the EU effectively negates that Singapore style economy that people like the ERG desire above all else. They wish to have the right to produce low cost shoddyware and ship it in bulk into the EU. It doesn't take much imagination to see why they wouldn't like this, and it is very easy for them to prevent it happening by the method of tariffs. On fish there would ( and probably will be) some serious problems ahead. The continental fishermen won't just give up their livelihoods so something has to give and this probably means conflict between the fishermen from each side. Interference by our navy will merely spark a freight blockade of the tunnel and channel ports. You really need to ask yourself if, when you voted Leave, you expected all this. And I've not even mentioned Ireland, Scotland....

andrewn 21st Dec 2020 00:18


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 10951397)
I'm afraid Andrew that the above post goes a long way towards explaining your views. A deal happens when the two sides can agree to the fair distribution of the spoils and we have reached the stage where the things that you list are not those that are blocking a deal. Primarily these things are level playing field rules and fish.

A level playing field with the EU effectively negates that Singapore style economy that people like the ERG desire above all else. They wish to have the right to produce low cost shoddyware and ship it in bulk into the EU. It doesn't take much imagination to see why they wouldn't like this, and it is very easy for them to prevent it happening by the method of tariffs. On fish there would ( and probably will be) some serious problems ahead. The continental fishermen won't just give up their livelihoods so something has to give and this probably means conflict between the fishermen from each side. Interference by our navy will merely spark a freight blockade of the tunnel and channel ports. You really need to ask yourself if, when you voted Leave, you expected all this. And I've not even mentioned Ireland, Scotland....

Do we even produce "low cost shoddyware" - I thought that was the preserve of China, Korea, et al?
As for fishing there's talk of a fudge, or transition agreement as the politicians prefer to call it, main sticking point appears to be the length of such a fudge.
If the respective sides have gone to the trouble of reaching 98% agreement then my best guess is something will be dragged out of the hat at 11.59pm on the 31st, in order to make it look like both sides have gone the extra mile. JRM and co can hiss and wail all they like, but given the majority I dont think it will amount to much more than that.


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