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NoelEvans 23rd Mar 2019 23:06

Which Brexiteers believe that?

Please be specific, as I am sure that you would not want the accusation of 'wild and inaccurate comments' to be pointed your way.

ShotOne 23rd Mar 2019 23:14

Interesting, that’s to say bizarre, to see so many Labour banners amongst today’s march. Would that be the same Labour party which last week refused to support a vote on the very thing they’re supposedly marching for? Is there no
limit to their populist opportunism?

Sallyann1234 23rd Mar 2019 23:29


Originally Posted by ShotOne (Post 10427972)
Interesting, that’s to say bizarre, to see so many Labour banners amongst today’s march. Would that be the same Labour party which last week refused to support a vote on the very thing they’re supposedly marching for? Is there no
limit to their populist opportunism?

​​​​​​What a strange question. Were you not aware that both main parties have members who disagree with their leadership?

Avionker 24th Mar 2019 00:53


Originally Posted by ShotOne (Post 10427972)
Interesting, that’s to say bizarre, to see so many Labour banners amongst today’s march. Would that be the same Labour party which last week refused to support a vote on the very thing they’re supposedly marching for? Is there no
limit to their populist opportunism?

I do believe that at their party conference last year the members of the Labour Party voted in favour of supporting a second referendum. It is, supposedly, the party policy. It is just their leader has so far failed to act on that decision. Too comfortable on his fence perhaps....

WingNut60 24th Mar 2019 07:09

Seems obvious that if it ever does come to another referendum that you need to consider making voting compulsory.

oldairphot 24th Mar 2019 10:12


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10428138)
Seems obvious that if it ever does come to another referendum that you need to consider making voting compulsory.

I agree, no vote no say

Harley Quinn 24th Mar 2019 10:18


Originally Posted by oldairphot (Post 10428238)
I agree, no vote no say

The natural follow on from that though is to only allow people to vote if they vote the right way.

Avionker 24th Mar 2019 10:20


Originally Posted by Harley Quinn (Post 10428243)
The natural follow on from that though is to only allow people to vote if they vote the right way.

Australia has compulsory voting. They don’t seem to suffer from that.

Sallyann1234 24th Mar 2019 10:24


Originally Posted by oldairphot (Post 10428238)
I agree, no vote no say

We have that already.

WingNut60 24th Mar 2019 10:34


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10428249)
We have that already.

In which case, another referendum is not required.

ShotOne 24th Mar 2019 10:34

“What a strange question...”. Strange or not, surely a relevant one for a party touting as an alternative government. At least the demonstrators saw through by roundly and deservedly booing Deputy Leader Watson.

Sallyann1234 24th Mar 2019 11:16


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10428260)
In which case, another referendum is not required.

Non sequitur

Hussar 54 24th Mar 2019 11:37


Originally Posted by Harley Quinn (Post 10427842)
Just idle curiosity on my part, but does anyone else think that Sproggett and Parapunter are one and the same?

If so, why the need to post under a different name?


Thought the same myself - Parapunter is a particularly nasty piece of work who, surprise, surprise, told me to F*ck Off as well and for the same reasons of not beuing British and not living in the UK. I think you're right.....

er340790 24th Mar 2019 11:46

After careful reflection, I find my attitude towards Brexit and the EU can be distilled into a simple desire to see Donald Tusk run through the streets, tarred and feathered, before being hung, drawn and quartered...

Irrational... maybe. Cruel & unusual... sure. But I think deep-down that the world would be a better place for it.

Am I alone???

oldairphot 24th Mar 2019 11:57


Originally Posted by er340790 (Post 10428323)
After careful reflection, I find my attitude towards Brexit and the EU can be distilled into a simple desire to see Donald Tusk run through the streets, tarred and feathered, before being hung, drawn and quartered...

Irrational... maybe. Cruel & unusual... sure. But I think deep-down that the world would be a better place for it.

Am I alone???

No, you are certainly not!!

fab777 24th Mar 2019 12:01

Guys and gals, remember that you are being read abroad. You are embarassing yourselves...

the British people used to be seen as pragmatic, not anymore. Thank you for the fun anyway, no one did expect brexit would turn into such a joke.

Bob Viking 24th Mar 2019 12:31

Brexit
 
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. For me, one of the greatest contradictions of this whole process is that Remainers are more than willing to say that Brexiteers (two great (!) terms by the way that will hopefully be forgotten eventually) fell for the £350M and all the immigration lies but can’t see how they have also fallen time and again for the media propogated myth that Brexiteers are all stupid, uneducated racists who are mostly retired.

People, when will you realise that you read stories that support your own beliefs? It is called confirmation bias. Nobody is getting a balanced view of anything and we all believe far too much of what the media tell us to believe.

Getting nasty solves nothing. We were asked a question in a referendum and we gave an answer. Our personal involvement effectively ended when we walked out of the polling station.

Finally, as a great example of unbalanced reporting and reading, anyone who quotes the oft mentioned notion that ‘many Brexiteers have changed their minds and would now vote remain’ fails to acknowledge that there are many who voted remain who would now vote leave. They often cite the behaviour of the EU through the Brexit process as opening their eyes to the true nature of that organisation.

So, believe what you will, read what you will but don’t suppose to tell anyone what they do or should think. You are all just as guilty as each other for falling for propaganda from one side of the fence.

BV

wiggy 24th Mar 2019 13:27


Originally Posted by fab777 (Post 10428334)
Guys and gals, remember that you are being read abroad. You are embarassing yourselves...

the British people used to be seen as pragmatic, not anymore. Thank you for the fun anyway, no one did expect brexit would turn into such a joke.


Sadly having bumped into a group of Aussies who were on holiday in my neck of the woods the other day I'll second that...

The whole process has not been helped, for better or worse, by some of the stuff that has appeared in the UK MSM.

MFC_Fly 24th Mar 2019 13:54


Originally Posted by Harley Quinn (Post 10427842)
Just idle curiosity on my part, but does anyone else think that Sproggett and Parapunter are one and the same?

If so, why the need to post under a different name?

Strange how Para stopped posting just as Sprog started, a regular pattern going back through history (as I pointed out earlier) and now you have highlighted your suspicions Sprog has also stopped posting... :hmm:

Barksdale Boy 24th Mar 2019 13:56

With regard to Parapunter/Sprogget: It has struck me for a day or so that, as Parapunter falls silent, Sprogget reappears. Their use of the ampersand is uncannily similar, as are their ridiculous arguments.

ATNotts 24th Mar 2019 13:58


Originally Posted by Avionker (Post 10428020)


I do believe that at their party conference last year the members of the Labour Party voted in favour of supporting a second referendum. It is, supposedly, the party policy. It is just their leader has so far failed to act on that decision. Too comfortable on his fence perhaps....

Party policy; but not Corbyn policy!!

Anyone who saw Keir Starmer on Marr this morning will realise that Labour are hiding their gaping splits on Brexit behind the Tories even bigger ones!

Grayfly 24th Mar 2019 14:17


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10428138)
Seems obvious that if it ever does come to another referendum that you need to consider making voting compulsory.

One way to make every vote count if there is another referendum is to include those that don't bother to vote as a 'yes'. So in a binary question situation of 'yes' to stay in EU and 'no' to leave, then all those that don't bother to vote are taken as a 'yes' to stay. That way about 26m 'no' votes are needed to leave rather than the 17.4m we have now, which is about one third of the eligible voters.

Pontius Navigator 24th Mar 2019 14:23

Sallyann,
You've been called.

​​​​​​​

Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10427952)
We won't, of course.
Except in the imagination of Brexiteers who still believe they are in the Victorian era when Britain ruled the waves.

​​​​​​​

=NoelEvans;10427963]Which Brexiteers believe that?

Please be specific, as I am sure that you would not want the accusation of 'wild and inaccurate comments' to be pointed your way.

Sprogget 24th Mar 2019 14:30


Originally Posted by MFC_Fly (Post 10428408)
Strange how Para stopped posting just as Sprog started, a regular pattern going back through history (as I pointed out earlier) and now you have highlighted your suspicions Sprog has also stopped posting... :hmm:

Is that so? An obsession with PP isn't a good look. That's three threads now + a bit of self appointed Poirot. Looking back over your posts, you seem especially embittered to have been banned. Maybe look closer to home instead of stalking other people.

Harley Quinn 24th Mar 2019 14:34


Originally Posted by Sprogget (Post 10428431)
Is that so? An obsession with PP isn't a good look. That's three threads now + a bit of self appointed Poirot. Looking back over your posts, you seem especially embittered to have been banned. Maybe look closer to home instead of stalking other people.

Interesting point he/she has raised though. Did you forget the account password or something? Or maybe there's a more straightforward explanation, go on, we're listening.

Sprogget 24th Mar 2019 14:42

Sorry, no idea what you're babbling on about.

Bob Viking 24th Mar 2019 14:42

Grayfly
 
What an excellent idea. Maybe we should reverse it though so that everyone is assumed to want to leave unless they vote otherwise.

I mean ‘Leave’ are the defending champions. I view it like the Calcutta Cup in rugby. The defending champions must be defeated to relinquish the trophy.

Would that be fair?

BV

MFC_Fly 24th Mar 2019 14:48


Originally Posted by Hussar 54 (Post 10428317)
Thought the same myself - Parapunter is a particularly nasty piece of work

Yes, you are right, I do see a very, very similar nastiness and writing style in Sprogs posts too :ok:

MFC_Fly 24th Mar 2019 14:51


Originally Posted by Harley Quinn (Post 10428438)
Interesting point he/she has raised though. Did you forget the account password or something? Or maybe there's a more straightforward explanation, go on, we're listening.

Maybe the Para account has been blocked and so he has to use the Sprog account for a while. It would be interesting to see the history of IP's linked to both log-ins ;)

Hussar 54 24th Mar 2019 15:10


Originally Posted by MFC_Fly (Post 10428451)
Maybe the Para account has been blocked and so he has to use the Sprog account for a while. It would be interesting to see the history of IP's linked to both log-ins ;)


Maybe Sprogget isn't Parapunter and Parapunter isn't Sprogget after all, because Sprogget didn't post at all between May 2013 and November 2018 whereas Parapunter gave up posting in November 2011 before resuming in October 2018 and it's just coincidence that when they both returned within days of each other after almost six years absence it was to post anti-Brexit sermons.

Very strange, but coincidences happen.

Pontius Navigator 24th Mar 2019 15:21


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 10428444)
What an excellent idea. Maybe we should reverse it though so that everyone is assumed to want to leave unless they vote otherwise.


Would that be fair?

BV

Need a referendum first :)

The precedent would be the PR referendum.

How would it be policed? What penalty if you fail to vote? In NSW

If it appears you didn't vote at an election you were eligible for in New South Wales, we will send you a formal 'Failure to vote' notice in the post asking you toprovide a reason why you did not vote or pay penalty. Penalty payments are paid to the NSW Treasury and not retained by NSW Electoral Commission.t the time of the EU referendum one voter turned up for the previous poll that month, found it was for the locals and even refused to take a ballot slip.

The penalty is A$55 , say £25 in UK. If 15m chose not to vote that is BIG money. But down in the weeds there is the appeals process which might include 'I did vote' and the collection process which would include enforcement. A whole new department would need to be created.

Cheaper to give each voter a tenner with their voting slip.

Grayfly 24th Mar 2019 16:59


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 10428444)
What an excellent idea. Maybe we should reverse it though so that everyone is assumed to want to leave unless they vote otherwise.

I mean ‘Leave’ are the defending champions. I view it like the Calcutta Cup in rugby. The defending champions must be defeated to relinquish the trophy.

Would that be fair?

BV

I am happy either way. I just don't like one third of the UK eligible voters being treated as prize winners,whatever the question.

Sallyann1234 24th Mar 2019 17:33


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10428428)
Sallyann,
You've been called.

​​​​​​​Well you could start with those who think Britain could still save Europe as it apparently did in the last three centuries.

pax britanica 24th Mar 2019 18:09

Leaving aside our faded and regularly exaggerated grandeur ( we will get the payback for those days when negotiating trade deals with China India etc ) it all comes down to one thing
THREE years-we a had had a referendum three years ago- no one had a much about the realities of leaving the EU and leaving aside all the rhetoric it is now THREE YEARS later, thats about the life of a parliament over the decades . So what if people voted to leave then- we dont have a general election and say- well we voted for say Cameron three years ago so he should still be PM, The Tory party voted for Theresa may and now want rid,

So why no second referendum , parliament cannot decide so ask the people again , democracy is all about being able to change your mind as David Davis said back in 2012.

So whats the problem, cannot do any harm can it? A pro leave vote would demonstrate the will of the people and a leave vote would reflect the population as it is now not as it was THREE years ago.

andytug 24th Mar 2019 18:12

That would be true democracy, have a vote now on the options now presented (deal, no deal, remain). If no deal still wins, then so be it. If leaving really is the best thing surely it will win again, no?

andytug 24th Mar 2019 18:15

And, no advertising by any side in the run up to the vote. One piece of paper per household delivered, setting out the facts for each, how much each will cost and what it means. No fear mongering, no mentioning the war, no racism and no gammon jokes.

Hyperdark 24th Mar 2019 18:20

Sure, have another vote, I tell you what have your people's vote, then get everyone to **** about for 3 years and have another one...I mean 3years after your peoples vote it will no longer represent the will of the people, so of course you need another one
etc etc

Honestly the reasoning given for having a second vote is about as imbecilic as anything I've heard, you remainers are all just wreckers pure and simple, you lost the vote and are too pig headed, arrogant and immature to accept it.


Hussar 54 24th Mar 2019 18:31


Originally Posted by Hyperdark (Post 10428586)
Sure, have another vote, I tell you what have your people's vote, then get everyone to **** about for 3 years and have another one...I mean 3years after your peoples vote it will no longer represent the will of the people, so of course you need another one
etc etc

Honestly the reasoning given for having a second vote is about as imbecilic as anything I've heard, you remainers are all just wreckers pure and simple, you lost the vote and are too pig headed, arrogant and immature to accept it.


I'm wondering why the same people now clammering for a second referendum haven't started bitching for a second General Election after the close run result in 2017.

Another General Election, Labour win, Brexit canceled.

Go on....I'm dying to hear why not.


Fitter2 24th Mar 2019 18:34


And, no advertising by any side in the run up to the vote. One piece of paper per household delivered, setting out the facts for each, how much each will cost and what it means
Ah, but whose 'facts'? Three years ago the government and treasury facts were of an instsnt financial crash, mass unemployment, etc. Every forcast since then has underestimated the growth in the UK economy (and overestimated the financial stability of our friends in the EU).

Exrigger 24th Mar 2019 18:45

Any second referendum has to have three answers to the question, as has been said before:
Accept a deal.
default exit under WTO rules.
Remain.

In my opinion, based on chatting with my circle of friends, colleagues and family, the option to exit under WTO rules will get more votes than accept a deal and together will attract more votes than the remain option, so that will not be the chosen version.

If they are still talking about only having two options, those being:
Accept a deal.
Remain.

Then I have no doubt remain would win, but that would not really be the correct way to set up another referendum, which is why if there is another one this will be the version that would be used.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/...when-to-do-it/

https://www.electoralcommission.org....ion-assessment




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