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racedo 31st Mar 2019 20:27


Originally Posted by Exrigger (Post 10434585)
Obviously, but I don't believe I said they are trying to tell Westminster what it wants. You said the EU wanted us gone, but their words and actions don't match that premise, which is all I said. They have their own laws that the UK signed up too and the UK has defaulted on Article 50 3 times to date, by not accepting the only agreement that the EU has agreed to. I think the EU will do what it takes to keep the UK in and will keep agreeing to allow the UK to kick the can down the road each time they request it, so again they do not appear to want the UK gone as you stated.

Yes they do as UK has said its leaving, EU then wants UK to leave rather than continually saying I'm leaving you but then coming back and asking for something else".

EU view is "we have taken you at your word that you are leaving so do it", rather than be like the girlfriend who says she is leaving but still wants to come round your mums house for Sunday dinner.

Sallyann1234 31st Mar 2019 20:56


Originally Posted by MOSTAFA (Post 10435072)
The BBC has admitted taking more than £2 million in European Union funding over the past three years, in a move that critics said called into doubt the corporation’s impartiality over the forthcoming European referendum. Springs to mind!

This was your statement, post #310.
I asked for evidence.
Do you have it, or you just going to bluster?

Pontius Navigator 31st Mar 2019 21:23

As they say, lies, damn lies and statistics to which we can add Google and the Internet. I have added my sources.

SallyAnn, your comment was unnecessary and added nothing.

funfly 31st Mar 2019 23:17

Democracy, democracy.
Let me remind everyone that our form of democracy is that we vote representatives to parliament then trust them to study proposals and to take decisions on our behalf.
50% of our government is voted in and the other half is there because of birth or privaledge i.e. not voted in.
In fact we are not a democracy but a monarchy, Terisa May is the Queens first minister, all MPs swear loyalty to the Crown (as do our military)
The Queen ( and in some cases Charlie) have the right to veto any law going through Parliament, indeed have in a number of instancies over the past few years. The Queen has to sign off every bill.
Every decision of the EU has to be voted through by elected members, no hangers on here.
Which is the true democracy?

WingNut60 31st Mar 2019 23:58


Originally Posted by funfly (Post 10435300)
Democracy, democracy.
Let me remind everyone that our form of democracy is that we vote representatives to parliament then trust them to study proposals and to take decisions on our behalf.
.....

Outsider's comment:

.....we vote representatives to parliament then trust them to study proposals and to take decisions on our behalf except in the case of a referendum where those elected have chosen to willingly abrogate their duties and responsibilities in favour of a direct vote by their constituents.
In which case, the constituents may have a reasonable expectation that the elected representatives will enact the outcome of the referendum.


Or that's how I'd have thought it might work.
Apparently not.


Krystal n chips 1st Apr 2019 06:33


Originally Posted by Hyperdark (Post 10435154)
I hope for your own sake that you outsource your financial planning

I appreciate that, this being JB, everybody (apart from me )has their own stockbroker and / or personal financial advisor for such matters....but, whilst I am bemused as to your concern, I can assure you, that, between the lady in my life and madam ( our dog ) my finances are suitably planned......madam is a very discerning diner for a start and "accustomed to the finer things in life "......or rather would like to be.

The point I was making however, which clearly eluded you, was that £2m over 3 years is nothing in financial terms . And, despite the attempts to show otherwise, the UK as a whole, has benefitted from EU grants and funding during our time as a member state.

No doubt the Gov't already have plans for alternative sources but are simply keeping them a closely guarded secret to be revealed to the electorate as a fait accompli and triumph for the UK in the near future !

Doodles for the week ahead.......missing, sadly, is Treeza's draft resignation letter....

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...-ahead-cartoon


yellowtriumph 1st Apr 2019 08:06


Originally Posted by funfly (Post 10435300)
Democracy, democracy.
Let me remind everyone that our form of democracy is that we vote representatives to parliament then trust them to study proposals and to take decisions on our behalf.
50% of our government is voted in and the other half is there because of birth or privaledge i.e. not voted in.
In fact we are not a democracy but a monarchy, Terisa May is the Queens first minister, all MPs swear loyalty to the Crown (as do our military)
The Queen ( and in some cases Charlie) have the right to veto any law going through Parliament, indeed have in a number of instancies over the past few years. The Queen has to sign off every bill.
Every decision of the EU has to be voted through by elected members, no hangers on here.
Which is the true democracy?

Best run that past Sinn Fein's MPs.

pax britanica 1st Apr 2019 09:32

Todayw e see the Conservative Chief whip-and he certainly does have his finger on the Westminster pulse discussing ways forward and looking backwards too- it seems in his mind we could have a referendum on no deal and another one on approving Mrs Ms deal but not on the issue itself.

Why on earth not-lots of countries have refereda on issues and then change their mind .. So why the desperation to at any course avoid THE question. It was a sort of democratic vote if you strip out some of the qualifications and the Russian money but it was three years ago apparently we can have general elections - which frequently overturn 'the will of the people' as it was but we cannot have a second referendum. we can have numerous leaders of the conservative party inside three years as well
Surely there has to be money behind this and that RM BJ and co are on the take because they are so blindly anti democratic on this- the only reason for not having a second referendum is the now certainty they would lose, surely the people can speak more than once.

It is also salutary to reflect that the last PM actually elected and with a clear majority -ie not relying on other parties or stepping down was Tony Blair which does rather suggest Parliament needs a bit of an overhaul

ATNotts 1st Apr 2019 10:18


Originally Posted by Training Risky (Post 10435570)
But can they be considered MPs considering they don't attend Parliament, therefore can't vote and consistently fail to represent their constituents?!

I think that anywhere outside Northern Ireland such behaviours would have resulted in recall votes in the respective constituencies. A cynic might suggest that in NI to do so would lead to a bullet through the kneecaps, or worse.

G0ULI 1st Apr 2019 10:23

The reason Sinn Fein MPs cannot sit in Parliament is because they would have to swear an oath of loyalty to the Queen. As a party opposed to British rule, thay cannot and will not do that.

MOSTAFA 1st Apr 2019 10:47


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10435245)
As they say, lies, damn lies and statistics to which we can add Google and the Internet. I have added my sources.

SallyAnn, your comment was unnecessary and added nothing.


Most of Sallyann’s comments are unnecessary and add nothing to be honest Pontius.

Sallyann1234 1st Apr 2019 11:25


Originally Posted by MOSTAFA (Post 10435626)

Most of Sallyann’s comments are unnecessary and add nothing to be honest Pontius.

If you think that, I must be doing something right. :ok:

Krystal n chips 1st Apr 2019 15:21


Originally Posted by MOSTAFA (Post 10435626)



Most of Sallyann’s comments are unnecessary and add nothing to be honest Pontius.

You seem to have made an error as to the sequence of names here.....

Now, as we know, Germany and the Germans tend to attract some " less than complimentary" posts by several contributors......so this little gem probably won't be well received.

However, for those of us living in the 21st century, it's as definitive as it gets......eloquently phrased as well.....and indisputably correct .Vielen Dank !

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...r-michael-roth

racedo 1st Apr 2019 16:20


Originally Posted by Training Risky (Post 10435570)
But can they be considered MPs considering they don't attend Parliament, therefore can't vote and consistently fail to represent their constituents?!

But they are representing their constituents wishes are they not.

Frankly there is a wish that many more would follow this line. Rees-Mogg for one, in a Coffee shop (non chain) the other day and he was on, young lady queueing up behind me with her mum shouts out "Mum, its Harry Potter on TV but he looks so old". Poor Barista took a long time to serve me as she struggled to stop laughing.

zoigberg 1st Apr 2019 20:51


Originally Posted by MadamBreakneck (Post 10434953)
Wiggy, thanks that made ineteresting reading - I interpretted the news at that time that the Cameron team had conceded on all their 'red lines'. Do you (or anybody on here) have a link to a similar summary of the Brexit negotiations showing which concessions the EU side have made from their opening stance? It'd have to be fairly short because my attention span on the topic has, unfortunately, shrunk over the years. All I've been able to glean is the EU27 camp saying "tell us what you want" (and, it seems, we'll tell that you can't have it).

MB

I was kind of hoping the BBC’s Kussenberg programme this evening would have shed some light on this, but it turned out to be a rather self-indulgent piece of light entertainment rather than anything that might have educated anyone. I’ll give a quote from a speech given in January that might help

1. ZOPA and TINA.
To begin to answer this question, let me first remind you of an old friend of all negotiators: the ZOPA.
Any negotiation has, in negotiators’ jargon, a ZOPA, a Zone of Possible Agreement, which is defined by where the interests, incentives and bottom lines of the sides can intersect. From the Prime Minister’s point of view, the deal struck on November 25 is in the ZOPA. Indeed, it’s the only deal acceptable to her which could be. As it was indeed within the ZOPA for the EU too -it’s a good deal for them- meant it was not hard at all to line up Michel Barnier and Heads of State and Government to say that this was the only deal they would do.
They would have said that ( even if not exhorted to by London) and assumed that such statements, which reinforced the Prime Minister’s “it’s either my way or the highway” strategy, would help the Prime Minister to get it over the line in Westminster. The Prime Minister, as I say, decided that her best course was to reach the ZOPA with the EU, which was consistent with her red lines (though act ually she has revised her red lines during the negotiation) and then seek to drag her own Party and/or a majority in the Commons to the realisation that she had done the only deal that could be done, and thus reached the only ZOPA that existed. And by this means to convince her Party and a Commons majority, that the choice my way or the abyss” was real, not contrived. This is our old friend, The TINA strategy. TINA of course standing for “There Is No Alternative”.

If you are interested in more detail, here is the full speech
https://www.ucl.ac.uk/european-insti...l_22012019.pdf
section 1 above and section 10 (which details how the all U.K. Backstop came about and that it was concession by the EU even though it doesn’t look like it from our point of view.

we are in extreme TINA land now. Or maybe beyond somewhere.

Pontius Navigator 2nd Apr 2019 07:17

ITV News last night, female and male MP, talk interviewer. After asking and listening to tall female asks small male question, then interrupts. "If you stop talking I will answer your question" . Next question, same response so interviewer says we are running out of time, please be quick. Quick answer given and ". . . was that quick enough for you"

It was one of those interminable post-vote wash up interviews that are really insubstantial but entertaining never-the-less.

Anyway, what happens next? Kick can down road? Another referendum?

I don't mind another referendum, EU elections, GE. All money in the bank.

jolihokistix 2nd Apr 2019 08:44

Tweet from the Mayor of Paris: "Ask yourself, which is ultimately better, a clean break or a dirty break?"

Super VC-10 2nd Apr 2019 09:19

Oxford University researchers have discovered the densest element yet known to science.
The new element, Governmentium (symbol=Gv), has one neutron, 25 assistant neutrons, 88 deputy neutrons and 198 assistant deputy neutrons, giving it an atomic mass of 312.
These 312 particles are held together by forces called morons, which are surrounded by vast quantities of lepton-like particles called pillocks.
Since Governmentium has no electrons, it is inert. However, it can be detected, because it impedes every reaction with which it comes into contact.
A tiny amount of Governmentium can cause a reaction that would normally take less than a second, to take from 4 days to 4 years to complete.
Governmentium has a normal half-life of 2 to 6 years.
It does not decay, but instead undergoes a reorganisation in which a portion of the assistant neutrons and deputy neutrons exchange places.
In fact, Governmentium's mass will actually increase over time, since each reorganisation will cause more morons to become neutrons, forming isodopes.
This characteristic of moron promotion leads some scientists to believe that Governmentium is formed whenever morons reach a critical concentration.
This hypothetical quantity is referred to as a critical morass.
When catalysed with money, Governmentium becomes Administratium (symbol=Ad), an element that radiates just as much energy as Governmentium, since it has half as many pillocks but twice as many morons.

wiggy 2nd Apr 2019 09:39


Originally Posted by jolihokistix (Post 10436406)
Tweet from the Mayor of Paris: "Ask yourself, which is ultimately better, a clean break or a dirty break?"


Haven't seen that tweet myself but I know she ( Anne Hildago) as also been very keen on pushing the attractiveness of Paris as a business/financial centre once the UK has left the EU.


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