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Ancient Observer 18th Oct 2019 14:08

Could we treat Eton and a small area around it a bit like Italy treats the Vatican?
Then everyone that studies at Eton becomes a non-UK citizen, with no vote and disallowed from being a British politician?

charliegolf 18th Oct 2019 14:22


Originally Posted by KelvinD (Post 10597561)
Well, after getting such a fantastic deal, who would have thought Boris would table this for debate tomorrow:
" That this House approves the withdrawal of the United Kingdom from the European Union under Article 50 of the Treaty on European Union on exit day, without a withdrawal agreement as defined in section 20(1) of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 "
Without a withdrawal agreement eh?

It will only be debated if the withdrawal act motion is defeated though. And then Benny will kick in. Worth a punt and will eat time.

CG

Torquetalk 18th Oct 2019 15:24


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 10597462)
I think it will pass. Corbyn is giving a nod and a wink to potential Labour rebels. It's possible it could be a dead heat and Bercow asked to make the casting vote. Interesting that the DUP are lobbying Tories to vote agin.

why would JC give the nod to rebels? If Johnson succeeds, the alternative provisions to Ch11 rights and protections are washed away (true blue wet dream) and he also goes into a coming election riding the wave of being the PM who delivered. That the DUP are against is quite understandable: The Union is being undermined. They are in fact the conservatives in this and not economic extremists like the ERG and that fraud Farage.

Krystal n chips 18th Oct 2019 15:56

"Taking back control ".......to use a much uttered phrase.

Here's another dimension and one that has been assiduously avoided because lets be honest, for many on JB the workers are generally perceived as bolshy left wing Trots / Marxists ( Karl gets a mention you will be pleased to learn ) and the sooner they are reminded of their place in the JB concept of society, the better !

For those concerned about a Labour Gov't, have a read of this article ......it's by another JB favourite, not Polly, and the salient points are precisely that. Just remember, that, whilst many are retired, there will always be a reliance on workers, in every sector, to provide the services required to support your lives.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...workers-rights

KelvinD 18th Oct 2019 16:04

K&C: That article was spot on. And wasn't the Karl Marx quote both far sighted and accurate! John McDonnell was quite passionate about this topic in an interview on Radio 4 this morning.

ORAC 18th Oct 2019 16:21

Well done Mr Letwin, well done.

Watching Sky News after word of the Letwin amendment reached them it seems they think that they are being gamed and all good will for another extension has vanished - and Macron has said he is not interested to providing one.

Mr Letwin and the other remainers may, if their amendment passes tomorrow and the government pulls the vote as a result, have just turned a Brexit with a deal into a no-deal crashout on the 31st.

It was seemed everyone hasn’t been listening to the various 27 heads of state - or hasn’t believed them.

ORAC 18th Oct 2019 16:33

Emmanuel Macron has suggested he is against a further Brexit extension as the EU sought to sell the new deal.....

As a two-day leaders’ summit in Brussels finished on Friday, the French president said it was time for the current phase in the Brexit negotiations to end. MPs will convene on Saturday to vote on the revised withdrawal agreement and political declaration on the future relationship.

Macron told reporters: “I am not trying to read into the future but I do not think we shall grant any further delay. I think it is time to put an end to these negotiations and move on to the future relationship. And put to an end to what is currently ongoing. What matters is to stick to the commitment we made and the deadline we set ourselves. It is up to each and every one to make their own decisions. There shall be no delay unless there are major changes.”.......

Exrigger 18th Oct 2019 16:48


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10597685)
Emmanuel Macron has suggested he is against a further Brexit extension as the EU sought to sell the new deal.....

As a two-day leaders’ summit in Brussels finished on Friday, the French president said it was time for the current phase in the Brexit negotiations to end. MPs will convene on Saturday to vote on the revised withdrawal agreement and political declaration on the future relationship.

Macron told reporters: “I am not trying to read into the future but I do not think we shall grant any further delay. I think it is time to put an end to these negotiations and move on to the future relationship. And put to an end to what is currently ongoing. What matters is to stick to the commitment we made and the deadline we set ourselves. It is up to each and every one to make their own decisions. There shall be no delay unless there are major changes.”.......

Do not know where my post with the DM links went and I don't think it broke any rules or are DM links not permitted, however, this sounds like damage limitation after Merkel announced that a delay would be unavoidable.

I still think that they will agree the upcoming extension request as the major changes would be another referendum or GE and then we will still not be any further ahead after they have played out, and the only deal will still be another revamp of the revamp of the May/EU one.

charliegolf 18th Oct 2019 16:52


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10597685)
There shall be no delay unless there are major changes.”.......

A ref with a remain choice?

CG

Groundbased 18th Oct 2019 17:10

The legal challenge appears to have been rejected.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-50088993

wiggy 18th Oct 2019 17:33



On the changes to Level Playing Field commitments - in original May deal legally-binding & required adherence to specific international or EU standards, in 30pg Annex 4, part of backstop Now deleted from WA. Short refs in PD - Tax - Environment - Labour - State Aid - Competition

So interesting that some Labour MPs feel they need to vote for "the deal".......

Also


.. Old Withdrawal Agreement.. - adherence to OECD standards Base Erosion & Profit Shifting standards - adoption of 3 EU tax avoidance directives - commitment to G20-OECD profit shifting plan

Now - PD - “commit to the principles of good governance/curbing harmful tax practices”
Well there's a surprise....

Chronus 18th Oct 2019 18:16


Originally Posted by Ancient Observer (Post 10597575)
Could we treat Eton and a small area around it a bit like Italy treats the Vatican?
Then everyone that studies at Eton becomes a non-UK citizen, with no vote and disallowed from being a British politician?

Would it not be a damn sight easier to turn Westminster into another Kremlin, name the area around it Red Square, decorate the place with a few statutes of Trotsky and that charming chap Stalin. Oh yes, I forgot Chairman Mao and Karl Marx. No Etonian will ever dream of getting a mile of it, let alone becoming a politician.

Exrigger 18th Oct 2019 18:51

Just to post another possible outcome for tomorrow:

1. They pass the ‘new’ agreement.

2. Immediately they ‘force’ Johnson to request an extension to give them time to go back to the people and have a peoples vote/ or GE, and if that fails to work out as some might like, they will try to stop the UK leaving with an agreed deal, and by god those that lose if it is passed tomorrow will try their hardest,

3. The EU will agree the extension request.

4. And then I have no idea, although I would hazard a guess that the time spent until the next expiry date will be more of the same as we have had over the last couple of years, just different words and delay tactics, probably with the courts involved again.

Effluent Man 18th Oct 2019 18:52

Momentum would be happy to see this pass,they are playing the long game. When it all goes pear shaped they can point to Pfeffel's incompetence. The aim is to get a Labour government with a majority and then use the current government's methods to implement a hard left agenda. In case you think this is right wing tosh I was a Labour councillor for fourteen years.

Exrigger 18th Oct 2019 19:11


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 10597825)
Momentum would be happy to see this pass,they are playing the long game. When it all goes pear shaped they can point to Pfeffel's incompetence. The aim is to get a Labour government with a majority and then use the current government's methods to implement a hard left agenda. In case you think this is right wing tosh I was a Labour councillor for fourteen years.

Your right, but surely it should be 'if' it all goes pear shaped as we don't know it will be an unmitigated disaster anymore than leave side know it will all be rosy, but that aside, with Labour intentions now being touted around what will happen if they get in power, and their bizarre stance on Brexit, are we really likely to see Labour in power any time soon.

I don't know, as there is nowt as queer as folk, as people refer to the referendum result for confirmation of that premise and some would vote for Labour if it was a duck with a red rosette, and there are those who are gullible enough to believe their largesse towards certain groups of the electorate, as I am sure the same can be levelled at all the other parties, they will all promise the earth and the population vote for who they believe will benefit them personally, or just not bother as it is all boring and a waste of time.

ORAC 18th Oct 2019 19:13

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...ns-crunch-vote

Voters urge MPs to back new Brexit deal in Commons crunch vote, new poll finds

A new poll has found 41% of Brits want Parliament to pass the new Withdrawal Agreement from Brussels, compared to 24% who want it to be rejected. The research by YouGov come as the Prime Minister is scrambling to get enough MPs to back the revised deal struck with the EU on Thursday.

According to the findings 67% of Leave voters and nearly a quarter - 24% - of Remainers want the plan to go through, compared to 10% and 41% respectively, who are against it.......

YouGov’s political research manager, Chris Curtis, said: “While any honeymoon period may end up being brief for this deal, it has so far been well received by the public. Unlike when Theresa May bought back her initial deal, Boris Johnson has managed to win over the support of many Leave voters who previously favoured leaving without a deal and even a sizeable minority of Remain voters want this deal to get over the line”.......

In the event that the deal passes, the poll found that 50% of the country believe it is acceptable to delay Brexit for a few weeks in order to push through needed legislation, but 28% refused the idea.

charliegolf 18th Oct 2019 19:14


Originally Posted by Effluent Man (Post 10597825)
Momentum would be happy to see this pass,they are playing the long game. When it all goes pear shaped they can point to Pfeffel's incompetence. The aim is to get a Labour government with a majority and then use the current government's methods to implement a hard left agenda. In case you think this is right wing tosh I was a Labour councillor for fourteen years.

How does that chime with Lansman et al openly threatening to deselect rebels (from the centre, not the local) for defying the whip? That was today.

CG

ORAC 18th Oct 2019 19:17

Brexit, election, doesn’t matter what - purging the party of those not faithful to the hard left by prioritising reselection before selection of candidates for an imminent election comes first.....


Momentum would be happy to see this pass,they are playing the long game.
https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk...abour-mps-they

Momentum boss Jon Lansman warns Labour MPs they will be ousted if they back Brexit deal

The senior Jeremy Corbyn ally - who is a member of Labour's ruling NEC - said MPs voting for the new-look Withdrawal Agreement on Saturday would be replaced with "new, socialist" candidates ahead of the next general election.

The votes of rebel Labour MPs are likely to be crucial in the crunch vote after Mr Johnson's confidence and supply partners, the DUP, vowed to vote against the deal. A small group of Labour MPs, including Ronnie Campbell, Caroline Flint and Ruth Smeeth have suggested they could back the plans, while veteran MP Graham Stringer, who voted three times against Mrs May's deal, said he would "consider whether, if this deal goes down, we won't get Brexit at all".

But Mr Lansman said the NEC would have "no choice" but to replace rebel MPs with new candidates if they defied Mr Corbyn and backed the PM. In a tweet, he said: "Johnson's deal will be a wrecking ball through the lives & well-being of ordinary people across Britain. “Labour MPs cannot and must not vote for it. If they do, the NEC will have no choice but to replace them with a new, socialist Labour candidate at the next election."....

Exrigger 18th Oct 2019 19:19


In the event that the deal passes, the poll found that 50% of the country believe it is acceptable to delay Brexit for a few weeks in order to push through needed legislation. But 28% refused the idea.=left
Once they extend to start that process it will take longer than the Benn Act date of January 2021 to get legislation through, as that will be the remain way of stalling/delaying again, just a thought. :sad:

Torquetalk 18th Oct 2019 20:55


Originally Posted by charliegolf (Post 10597843)
How does that chime with Lansman et al openly threatening to deselect rebels (from the centre, not the local) for defying the whip? That was today.

CG

Quite. It might have worked in Egypt, but It would be an extremely contorted strategy to gift Blowjo et al the whip hand to win, not just Brexit, but also a subsequent election and thereby give get them carte blanche to push harder on a super laissez-faire agenda.

If the premise of such gymnastic thinking is that voters will take it out on the policy‘s authors at the ballot box when inevitable chaos ensues, surely this overlooks the unifying effect of plucky Blighty stoically telling the intransigent bullying EU to shove the consequences up the English Channel. Plenty of votes in that. And Fleet Street’s finest would fall over themselves to drum up the best barking mad interpretation of the mess the country had got itself into.

Anyway, who’ll give me long odds on the UK (or maybe it will be just England and Wales) going cap in hand to the IMF within a decade?


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