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Mr Mac 30th Mar 2019 07:12

Noel Evans
The article you quote on the ROI end,s with the comments about considerable uncertainty about the figures due to the current situation as to what is happening in the UK. My point was not about uncertain figures, but about actual reality as is happening now this morning your time. Even your Mr JRM is putting his money into Dublin, not London / Leeds / Manchester for example. The news of the small march / demo outside parliament last night compared by UKIP etc compared with the Remain one last week was commented on out here. Also much scratching of heads in the Long Bar as to who Tommy Robinson is and represents. Do you really want thugs like that representing your views or do you agree with them ?
Regards
Mr Mac

Pontius Navigator 30th Mar 2019 08:28

Buster

It does seem odd to me that, presumably, a majority of the 28 EU members are in favour of every regulatory change that comes from their Union, and yet we in the UK seem to often be the ones who complain of bureaucratic heavy-handedness. It looks to be to be rather a case of everyone being out of step except our Johnny.
Douglas Hurd said sometime ago that we work hard at the regulations to reduce any adverse impact but once implemented will work just as hard applying the rules. We are led to believe many other countries circumvent the rules. We are the heavy handed ones and the ones out of step. Where the EU does good works in the UK we minimise the value of their contribution.

In the heart of leave country the EU was involved in revamping a garden centre (🤔). The required acknowledgment was a small plaque hidden behind a door. I have no idea what was involved but know it was barely publicised.


Like you I have no love of multi-layered bureaucracy, but, having survived one pretty nasty war that started in a Europe consisting of numerous states operating pretty much in isolation from each other, I just have a gut feeling that an organisation that does, indeed as you mention, give a country like Latvia similar rights to Germany or France, must help to keep our continent a bit more cohesive and deter some of the extremes of nationalism;
I think NATO and the US had a larger, and certainly earlier, impact on European cohesiveness despite the French, Greeks and Spainish under Franco. You mentioned Latvia, of course they joined NATO and the EU in the same year.

Where the newer members are really benefiting is the EU funded improvements which improve their standards of living and that is an undoubted benefit, a benefit either unseen by the insular Briton or envied as EU profligacy (with our money) by those that travel.

A case in point was the massive infrastructure development in Madeira. High speed motorways, complete dismantlement and reconstruction of the harbour area. This cost billions and was richer a benefit that the island Government borrowed billions more with debts stretching far in to the future. I hadn't seen the following link when I wrote this; very instructive.
http://www.madeiraguide.co.uk/development.shtml

Unfortunately, in the near term, all that we see is our money being lavished on foreigners. Really it is socialism on a continental scale but we don't see that. What we do see, or rather our media tells us, is the fiscal profligacy of the Brussels elite. The waste of moving to Strasbourg every month. I bet the Strasbourgers would squeal like stuck pigs if the heavy train stopped and the troughs remained in Brussels.

I might add the frequent tendency to blame unpopular changes in the EU. Car speed limiters is a case in point - EU madness - which we will adopt as we played a large part in formulating the rules. Now we will have no direct role in any future changes.

Then our Governments rush to lead green (either party). No more gas, reduce plastic, close coal fired plants, ban log burners. Rightly blamed on Nanny state but extends to a general resistance to big Government.

Fonsini 30th Mar 2019 13:37

What seems clear to me is that we have a creaking and under-skilled government bureaucracy that has had generations of never having to actually DO anything, and now they are faced with a huge and very complex project that they are simply incapable of completing.

I honestly think that senior civil servants are sitting in the corner holding on to teddy and hoping that this will all blow over and they can go back to doing essentially nothing. If this was private industry heads would have been rolling all over the place, but then that’s why they joined the gravy train in the first place, they simply couldn’t hack it in private industry.

Private jet 30th Mar 2019 15:20

I do wonder what chancer Boris & Judas Rees-Mogg were promised in order to change their vote....

Also, why didn't the imcompetent May & co invite the DUP to negotiate with the EU? After all, they secured a billion pounds for NI in return for a worthless "confidence and supply" agreement, thats pretty good negotiating. They wouldn't have accepted this backstop nonsense and made mince out of Barnier and that creepy Verhofstat character.

NoelEvans 30th Mar 2019 16:04


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10433905)
It was not a land grab rather it was ensuring that 1998 Good Friday Agreement was respected and no borders put up to trade or free movement of people.

Northern Ireland by 56 to 44% were in favour of remaining in EU. There is zero support for a hard border.

So why was Varadkar so dogmatic about the 'backstop' not changing, when it was exactly that 'backstop' that is leading things towards a 'no deal' Brexit that will result in the EU 'having' to impose a hard border in Ireland? Sounds like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That doesn't seem very much like respecting the Good Friday Agreement. It sounds farmore like a failed 'land grab' attempt. Genuine respect for the Good Friday Agreement would have meant ensuring that the Withdrawal Agreement was going to be approved, no matter what concessions had to be made on the 'backstop'.

A simple concession that the backstop will not be never-ending could, even at this late stage, put everything back on track and ensure no hard border and genuinely respect that Good Friday Agreement. Anything other than that is disrespecting the Good Friday Agreement. And the people of Ireland whose jobs might be on the line.

Sallyann1234 30th Mar 2019 16:07


Originally Posted by Private jet (Post 10434327)
I do wonder what chancer Boris & Judas Rees-Mogg were promised in order to change their vote....

Also, why didn't the imcompetent May & co invite the DUP to negotiate with the EU? After all, they secured a billion pounds for NI in return for a worthless "confidence and supply" agreement, thats pretty good negotiating. They wouldn't have accepted this backstop nonsense and made mince out of Barnier and that creepy Verhofstat character.

Once again you make the mistake that a better deal for the UK was available. The EU were never in the business of giving way on any fundamental principle. They made that very clear to Cameron, and they have not wavered since.

NoelEvans 30th Mar 2019 16:53


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 10433975)
...

May I just ask, though, at what stage was it ever suggested by anyone that European road trips would be off the menu after Brexit? Iíve heard mention of a potential European driving permit being needed for a tiny fee. Maybe visas will be needed, though I very much doubt it. None of this is insurmountable though surely?

BV

Project Fear is doing well on this one!

We have a road-trip planned.
- I phoned our car insurance, we're covered but might need a Green Card; they sent it to me and it arrived the next day
- Breakdown cover provided by the manufacturer and Europe wide
- There is still 'whatifery' about our drivers licences that have been perfectly good in many countries including several in the EU where we 'may' need IDPs, but they are easy to arrange.

So no problems on that side of things.

Then the real problems come: In which countries do we need 'vignettes', fire-extinguishers, breathalysers, first aid kits, 'protesters vests', etc., etc. Not as simple as driving in the UK And not as safe.

Bruce No1 30th Mar 2019 17:08


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10433905)
Northern Ireland by 56 to 44% were in favour of remaining in EU.

The overall UK vote was 52% to 48% to leave the EU and as it's the overall result that is the relevant one, what exactly is your point?

Pontius Navigator 30th Mar 2019 17:36


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10434385)

Then the real problems come: In which countries do we need 'vignettes', fire-extinguishers, breathalysers, first aid kits, 'protesters vests', etc., etc. Not as simple as driving in the UK And not as safe.

Last time we travelled P&O Ferries the onboard shop helpfully sold all the necessary bits - not winter tyres though.

But then, these national rules have pertained for years.

MFC_Fly 30th Mar 2019 18:09


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10433905)
It was not a land grab rather it was ensuring that 1998 Good Friday Agreement was respected and no borders put up to trade or free movement of people.

Please show us a quote from the GFA that state that about the border.

MFC_Fly 30th Mar 2019 18:16


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10433905)
Northern Ireland by 56 to 44% were in favour of remaining in EU.

And Antrim North by 62 to 38% were in favour of leaving the EU.

There were 6 other constituencies in NI that voted to leave as well, but as has been said, this was a UK vote, not a local one.

pax britanica 30th Mar 2019 18:47

But the vote was three years ago and people knew next to nothing about the complexities of the EU and world trade-why should they.

After the vot e TM said one of the reasons about not having a second referendum -and at the time she was right was that it could trigger a chain reaction if remain had an equally narrow win , and we would then have to have another.
The irony of her wanting to keep on voting about the same issue seems lost on her with her plans for a fourth vote on her 'deal'.

As indeed does the idea that a second referendum now would be wholly democratic, three years have nearly passed and an awful lot has happened resulting in hung parliaments splits in both parties mass marches-well on one side, 5 million people signing p[petitions and no progress whatsoever on 'striking trade deals' funnelling millions or billions to the NHS and clear evidence that electoral rules were seriously infringed in the referendum vote viz Mr A Banks and Russia .

And all the leave campaign can come up with is we voted for something three years ago and therefore cannot change our mind- an attitude that would have negated at least half the general elections and hundreds of local council elections where power moved from one grown to another. Democracy is not just one man one vote ( or one woman or one LGBT or one transgender person) it is the right of the people to change their mind . as per Mr former brexit sec David Davis- 'democracy is the right to change your mind'.

Maybe London and the South East will 'leave ' the rest of the UK if Brexit does happen, after all theres not reason why we in the south shouldn't go on propping up these poorer regions to the North and West run by unelected bureaucrats (all bureacrats are unelected thats whey they are bureaucrats of course) forcing there views on us , maybe we should 'take back control'

Harley Quinn 30th Mar 2019 18:50


Originally Posted by pax britanica (Post 10434476)
But the vote was three years ago and people knew next to nothing about the complexities of the EU and world trade-why should they.

After the vot e TM said one of the reasons about not having a second referendum -and at the time she was right was that it could trigger a chain reaction if remain had an equally narrow win , and we would then have to have another.
The irony of her wanting to keep on voting about the same issue seems lost on her with her plans for a fourth vote on her 'deal'.

As indeed does the idea that a second referendum now would be wholly democratic, three years have nearly passed and an awful lot has happened resulting in hung parliaments splits in both parties mass marches-well on one side, 5 million people signing p[petitions and no progress whatsoever on 'striking trade deals' funnelling millions or billions to the NHS and clear evidence that electoral rules were seriously infringed in the referendum vote viz Mr A Banks and Russia .

And all the leave campaign can come up with is we voted for something three years ago and therefore cannot change our mind- an attitude that would have negated at least half the general elections and hundreds of local council elections where power moved from one grown to another. Democracy is not just one man one vote ( or one woman or one LGBT or one transgender person) it is the right of the people to change their mind . as per Mr former brexit sec David Davis- 'democracy is the right to change your mind'.

Maybe London and the South East will 'leave ' the rest of the UK if Brexit does happen, after all theres not reason why we in the south shouldn't go on propping up these poorer regions to the North and West run by unelected bureaucrats (all bureacrats are unelected thats whey they are bureaucrats of course) forcing there views on us , maybe we should 'take back control'

But what question would be posed?

DON T 30th Mar 2019 19:13

Unfortunately Honda have said the plant in Swindon will close.

Today there was a march in Swindon to try and save the plant and I respect the present and past workers for turning out in great numbers.

However our march for the people of Swindon has been taken over by trade union supporters from far afield who came here with other intentions.

The march was for the people of Swindon and the surrounding areas not for your political ambitions.

By turning up today in your red vests you hopefully have achieved nothing.

Best of luck to the truly talentted workers of Honda who deserve praise and a good future.

Remember Swindon has adapted before. Keep hope.��


Private jet 30th Mar 2019 19:23


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10434356)
Once again you make the mistake that a better deal for the UK was available. The EU were never in the business of giving way on any fundamental principle. They made that very clear to Cameron, and they have not wavered since.

I have made no mistake. A better deal WAS & maybe still is possible, but I concede its very unlikely now. The EU were not threatened enough early on, the polititical cretins just threw it all away.

racedo 30th Mar 2019 19:54


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10434353)
So why was Varadkar so dogmatic about the 'backstop' not changing, when it was exactly that 'backstop' that is leading things towards a 'no deal' Brexit that will result in the EU 'having' to impose a hard border in Ireland? Sounds like throwing the baby out with the bathwater. That doesn't seem very much like respecting the Good Friday Agreement. It sounds farmore like a failed 'land grab' attempt. Genuine respect for the Good Friday Agreement would have meant ensuring that the Withdrawal Agreement was going to be approved, no matter what concessions had to be made on the 'backstop'.

A simple concession that the backstop will not be never-ending could, even at this late stage, put everything back on track and ensure no hard border and genuinely respect that Good Friday Agreement. Anything other than that is disrespecting the Good Friday Agreement. And the people of Ireland whose jobs might be on the line.

Tories intend to make zero concessions because a right wing element fully intend a No deal leave irrespective of what is offered.

London hasn't decided what it wants.

racedo 30th Mar 2019 19:56


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10434356)
Once again you make the mistake that a better deal for the UK was available. The EU were never in the business of giving way on any fundamental principle. They made that very clear to Cameron, and they have not wavered since.

Remainers assummed EU would blink. Seems like they haven't as it is not EU that can't make up its mind.

UK has united EU like never before, they now just want it gone.

Exrigger 30th Mar 2019 20:10


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10434532)
Remainers assummed EU would blink. Seems like they haven't as it is not EU that can't make up its mind.

UK has united EU like never before, they now just want it gone.

If that was the case, why do they keep allowing the UK to keep kicking the same can down the road, if that were truly the case the UK would be out of the EU today, and certainly on the latest Westminster games they would tell us that if the only deal they will discuss is not accepted, then we will definitely default out on the 12th April, but they won't so they obviously do not want us gone.

Sallyann1234 30th Mar 2019 20:54


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10434532)
Remainers assummed EU would blink. Seems like they haven't as it is not EU that can't make up its mind.

UK has united EU like never before, they now just want it gone.

Didn't you mean Brexiters assumed...?

racedo 30th Mar 2019 21:12


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10434564)
Didn't you mean Brexiters assumed...?

Most have lost the will to live at this stage


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