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The Nip 27th Mar 2019 18:47


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10431600)
oh I don't know.

Holding the referendum in the first place. ?

I can't agree with this one point.

DC gave all those eligible to vote a say in their future.
I presume you and many others like to have a say?

As it happens the referendum proved that there was a majority to leave the EU. If no referendum had been held, that ill feeling would have simmered, but not gone away. Surely it is the Gov'ts responsibility to take account of the feeling of those people? If previous MPs from all parties had been more honest and explained about Maastricht and Lisbon etc, then maybe the leave vote might not have happened. Quietly signing away the UK's sovereignty without informing the public exactly what it meant, IMHO, has caused some of this anger.
It is not the fault of the EU all this has happened.

Your points about DC after the referendum, well we do agree.






Pontius Navigator 27th Mar 2019 19:14

The Nip, I guess so. We know he did it to blindside UKIP.

Bob Viking 29th Mar 2019 07:12

Buster11
 
So, after your plea for Brexit justification I replied. I accept you may be busy so after 15 posts and two days I thought I might check in and see what you have to say.

Was my reply not what you were expecting? Had you been led to believe that all Brexiteers were venom spitting, racist zealots who voted leave to fund the NHS?

I for one love reasoned debate and grown up discussion. We may disagree but that doesnít mean we have to dislike each other. Iím just curious to hear your reply.

Wiggy, youíre quite correct. It was my decision and mine alone. Iím quite content with that and if time proves me to have been wrong you are more than welcome to come back in ten years and ask me to admit to my mistake.

Of course I will be here in ten years time seeking the opposite when we realise that, despite all the prophecies of doom, Britain is doing perfectly fine and the EU is crumbling.

Hereís the funny thing. Despite what we read, none of us know what is going to happen for sure. Maybe we should all stop squabbling for a while and live with it. If we (the populous) stopped worrying, the media would stop reporting it and life would carry on.

I know I am an eternal optimist and, as I have already said, I may be wrong but thatís me.

BV

Imagegear 29th Mar 2019 09:27

Wiggy


Ah no, you don't get away with that...you're obviously a bright individual and I'm sure you are well able to educate yourself...you "own" that decision.
When everyone voted in the referendum, it would be correct to believe that a majority of bright individuals were able to educate themselves and come to a sound decision.The popular vote "own" that decision too.

To justify second referendums or procrastinating over delivery, misappropriates the property of the voting public. Interestingly, I was an informed and educated, remainer. However, I also take offence when parliament and the EU try to bludgeon me into acceptance of their well spun shenanigans and consequently have developed a strong "leave now" streak, As I suspect an increasing majority of thinking people have also done.

IG

Pontius Navigator 29th Mar 2019 09:30


Originally Posted by Bob Viking (Post 10433071)

Hereís the funny thing. Despite what we read, none of us know what is going to happen for sure. Maybe we should all stop squabbling for a while and live with it. If we (the populous) stopped worrying, the media would stop reporting it and life would carry on.

I know I am an eternal optimist and, as I have already said, I may be wrong but thatís me.

BV

Entirely agree. I voted the opposite way but after George Osborne 's prediction that the sky would fall in the day after a leave vote was demonstrably wrong I stopped worrying. One prediction after another has proven false. They might come true in the future but that has been consistently misrepresented by JBs here and politics and media using affirmative words like WILL when it is clearly presumptive.

By all means prepare but optimism has a quality all of its own. That is true of the armed forces as we would never have sustained the deterrent or fought WW2 with today's attitudes.

wiggy 29th Mar 2019 10:47


Originally Posted by Imagegear (Post 10433161)
Interestingly, I was an informed and educated, remainer. However, I also take offence when parliament and the EU try to bludgeon me into acceptance of their well spun shenanigans

I'm sure we can all find plenty of examples of bludgeoning and shenanigans that originated in Westminister, ( e.g. bungs, sorry, grants to Northern Ireland and some areas of the UK, the PM bringing back to Westminster a WA she had agreed and then voting against it, the PM withdrawing the meaningful Vote 1 in December when she realised she was going to lose, the PM promising to stand down as long as MPs vote for her WA,..

Can you provide similar examples of "bludgeoning" or shenanigans relevant to Brexit that originated in the EU?


and consequently have developed a strong "leave now" streak, As I suspect an increasing majority of thinking people have also done.
From what I am hearing witnessing the bludgeoning and shenanigans in Westminster, televised daily by the State Broadcaster has meant a few former leavers have now developed a strong "remain" streak...

Sallyann1234 29th Mar 2019 10:56

We are not going to have a second referendum of course, but it would be fascinating to see just what the results would have been.

MOSTAFA 29th Mar 2019 11:00

Yep facinating :) absolutely facinating :)

Superb post Bob Viking.

Pontius Navigator 29th Mar 2019 11:11

Ryan Bourne in today's Telegraph cites the EU internet copyright rules and proposed speed limiters as reason for leaving the EU. This overlooks the fact that UK played a large part in designing these rules and has already said we would adopt them come what May.

It also ignores the point that for commercial and economic reasons we would probably adopt other such rules while having no input to their formulation.

We should also remember that in many cases our rules are more restrictive, i.ie 70 mph in motorways 50-60 vice 56 etc. Fuel duties, VAT rates also.

ricardian 29th Mar 2019 11:57

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5ab5795257.jpg

oldairphot 29th Mar 2019 12:24


Originally Posted by ricardian (Post 10433314)

Thank you ricardian, so true, er where do I send the bill for a new keyboard?

Asturias56 29th Mar 2019 12:38

Yesterday I was on a Conference call at work - Americans, Dutch, Spanish, Italians - and one poor Brit... I really felt for him - everyone was mocking BREXIT and British Politicos', pouring bucket loads of "sympathy" over him - you could hear him squirming

So sad that a once respected country has become a total laughing stock.....................

wiggy 29th Mar 2019 13:01


Originally Posted by Asturias56 (Post 10433350)
Yesterday I was on a Conference call at work - Americans, Dutch, Spanish, Italians - and one poor Brit... I really felt for him - everyone was mocking BREXIT and British Politicos', pouring bucket loads of "sympathy" over him - you could hear him squirming

So sad that a once respected country has become a total laughing stock.....................

The goings on (I can't call most of it debate) in Westminster are increasingly been shown on TV news outside the UK, mainly for :eek: value, though The Speaker seems to have gained a fan club.

TBH it really hasn't looked good and the UK's reputation as a country having sensible, stable, reasoned government has been utterly trashed...As a Brit abroad I have found it can be darned embarrassing attempting to explain it at times.

MOSTAFA 29th Mar 2019 13:12

Those who will not reason, are nowadays referred to as bigots, those who cannot, are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves; our great island race decided never to be that a long time ago.

The last last line of Rule Britannia springs to mind.

NoelEvans 29th Mar 2019 13:18

Methinks that bricks are being pooed in Dublin
ESRI warns disorderly Brexit could cost 80,000 Irish jobs
Taoiseach to meet Macron, Merkel amid Brexit uncertainty
(The 'land grab' attempt seems to be backfiring badly.)

ATNotts 29th Mar 2019 13:26


Originally Posted by wiggy (Post 10433364)
The goings on (I can't call most of it debate) in Westminster are increasingly been shown on TV news outside the UK, mainly for :eek: value, though The Speaker seems to have gained a fan club.

TBH it really hasn't looked good and the UK's reputation as a country having sensible, stable, reasoned government has been utterly trashed...As a Brit abroad I have found it can be darned embarrassing attempting to explain it at times.

The more I watch the proceedings in parliament the more I am convinced that our system, be it the chamber and the way it operates, or the adversarial two party system have past their usefulness and sincerely hope that after this whole Brexit business is resolved there will be a groundswell of public opinion for change.

Sallyann1234 29th Mar 2019 13:49


Originally Posted by NoelEvans (Post 10433371)
Methinks that bricks are being pooed in Dublin
ESRI warns disorderly Brexit could cost 80,000 Irish jobs
Taoiseach to meet Macron, Merkel amid Brexit uncertainty
(The 'land grab' attempt seems to be backfiring badly.)

You think it's amusing that Brexit may cause innocent people in the Republic of Ireland to lose their jobs.

Well good for you. :ugh:





Mr Mac 29th Mar 2019 14:09

Wiggy
Still in the Far East, and have to say it is embarrassing at the moment watching this in the bars out here. If this carries on I can see me using my Swiss passport more and more.
Noel Evans
There is plenty of work in Dublin at the moment building offices for the large chunk of the city bailing out of London, their money will keep the Irish economy going ok. The same is also true in Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt and this is not anecdotal, I am involved in the building of them !. UK is in trouble as you are losing a lot of investment and skilled labour. I know not many view bankers that way, but there is significant trickle down financially from them as can be seen in the SE of England. The question you should be asking is who is going to pay the tax to replace that lost through this exodus. I speak as one of those who voted with their feet and moved 2 years ago, and now only spend around 90 days in the old island, and pay a very minimal amount to HMRC as a result.


Kind regards
Mr Mac

Harley Quinn 29th Mar 2019 14:29


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10433389)
You think it's amusing that Brexit may cause innocent people in the Republic of Ireland to lose their jobs.

Well good for you. :ugh:

If it's a case of them or us guess what?

CargoMatatu 29th Mar 2019 14:53


Originally Posted by Harley Quinn (Post 10433430)
If it's a case of them or us guess what?

And there you have it, People. In a nutshell :mad:


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