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Dont Hang Up 4th Sep 2019 10:56


Originally Posted by Sallyann1234 (Post 10561591)
From today's Times:
A group of the world’s leading business federations from Japan to the US have warned Britain against crashing out of the European Union without a deal.

The organisations, representing four million companies from eight countries, say a no-deal Brexit would “create substantial disruption for businesses, workers, farmers and regulators” and has made them “gravely concerned”.

The joint letter, co-ordinated by the US Chamber of Commerce, reveals for the first time the damage no-deal would do to Britain’s standing on the global business circuit. Companies from the signatory countries invested £48 billion in the UK in 2017 but future spending would be at risk, they said.

All arguments against Brexit, no-matter what the source, are a part of Project Fear and thereby are invalid.

It is surprising that remoaners have still failed to grasp this. Brexit - deal or no deal - is, like the Pope, infallible.

Pontius Navigator 4th Sep 2019 12:31


Originally Posted by Dont Hang Up (Post 10561599)
All arguments against Brexit, no-matter what the source, are a part of Project Fear and thereby are invalid.

I hope that was tongue in cheek.

No one can pretend that there won't be disruption or that we will fall off the cliff.

The question is how far and onto what?

ShotOne 4th Sep 2019 14:59

...and there won’t be because of this endless limbo and uncertainty? Businesses can cope with change. What they can’t cope with is the present paralysis. Labour have blocked every deal. They’ve blocked no-deal. Now they’re blocking an election. It’s time for parliament to say what it wants not what it doesn’t.

NutLoose 4th Sep 2019 15:10

I've never been so frustrated with the whole lot of them, talk about a bunch of self centred egotistic spineless [email protected] on the opposition benches, if you do not like the idea of Brexit then put it to the country and call an election. I can finally understand Guido Fawkes's frustration.

ATNotts 4th Sep 2019 15:33


Originally Posted by NutLoose (Post 10561743)
I've never been so frustrated with the whole lot of them, talk about a bunch of self centred egotistic spineless [email protected] on the opposition benches, if you do not like the idea of Brexit then put it to the country and call an election. I can finally understand Guido Fawkes's frustration.

Because of the electoral system we have putting Brexit to the country through a general election will not really prove anything, it may actually not change anything. If we had a genuine PR system then I'd be comfortable with your proposal, but we don't. Putting it to a new referendum would however put the whole thing to bed; whether the binary questions be a) May's deal or no deal, or b) May's deal or remain, or c) No deal or remain.

Frankly, at this stage I'm not really too fussed which as we can't go on as we are. My preferred choice would be (c) since under the current junta that is pretty much where we're heading (no deal). Given the result of the referendum back in 2016 I'd tolerate (a) if that is the best we could get parliament to agree to.

Fitter2 4th Sep 2019 15:49

There is no deal acceptable to the EU that does not leave us in the Single Market and Customs Union, and subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ, still paying for the privileges of EU membershipbut with no say on the rules which they can change to disadvantage UK. No deal acceptable to the EU is acceptable to a majority of the HoC. Many nations outside the EU have perfectly satisfactory trade arrangements, without being subject to Brussels rule, however I agree that in the short term (2 to 10 years depending on whose financial projections you believe) there may be advantages in staying in the EU.

My preference is to leave and run the UK in accordance with our own democratic rules - definitely not the May 'deal' which was not a deal in any sense that I understand, having no future trade agreement. Roll on some decision, so that we can all get ion with our lives.

Grayfly 4th Sep 2019 15:56

Roll on a balanced decision that recognises the risks and not just adhering to populism, ideology and slogans. I want my MP, because that's all I have at my disposal, to work his hardest to ensure that happens. Then we can get on with our lives.

Aihkio 4th Sep 2019 16:32

EU commission is now comparing Brexit with natural disasters and member states affected can apply for financial aid. Quite clever.

Fly Aiprt 4th Sep 2019 16:33


Originally Posted by Fitter2 (Post 10561761)
There is no deal acceptable to the EU that does not leave us in the Single Market and Customs Union, and subject to the jurisdiction of the ECJ, still paying for the privileges of EU membershipbut with no say on the rules which they can change to disadvantage UK.

Of course this is totally inaccurate.
You're most welcome to go at the door.
But - there is a but unfortunately - you won't be able to remain in the Single Market. Out is out, no ifs no buts ;-)
You'll no longer have to pay for privileges you'll no longer have. That means you won't have any privilege. And you won't have any say to any rule in a union you'll no longer be a member of.

Is that so difficult to understand ?
Of course, as a 3rd country you'll have to apply to the EU if you want to trade with it, get into it, strike a deal with it.
Of course that will take time.
If that is what you wish for, by all means go ahead.

Provided you are actually leaving, that is ;-)

ATNotts 4th Sep 2019 16:59


Originally Posted by Fly Aiprt (Post 10561781)
Of course this is totally inaccurate.
You're most welcome to go at the door.
But - there is a but unfortunately - you won't be able to remain in the Single Market. Out is out, no ifs no buts ;-)
You'll no longer have to pay for privileges you'll no longer have. That means you won't have any privilege. And you won't have any say to any rule in a union you'll no longer be a member of.

Is that so difficult to understand ?
Of course, as a 3rd country you'll have to apply to the EU if you want to trade with it, get into it, strike a deal with it.
Of course that will take time.
If that is what you wish for, by all means go ahead.

Provided you are actually leaving, that is ;-)

To put the record straight, we don't have to ask the EU if we want to trade with it, but we will have to get an agreement if we want a preferential trading agreement. Otherwise your summary is absolutely correct.

However of course as we all know, EU exporters will be so anxious to protect their business with the UK, to the potential detriment of their internal market, that they'll force the EU to roll over and give in to all Boris Johnson's demands. (If you believe that nonsense you'll believe anything - but 52% of UK voters appear happy to take their chances!).

ORAC 4th Sep 2019 17:03



Of course this is totally inaccurate.
You're most welcome to go at the door.
But - there is a but unfortunately - you won't be able to remain in the Single Market. Out is out, no ifs no buts ;-)
So, they don’t really care about the Irish border then?

​​​​​​​Just asking....

ATNotts 4th Sep 2019 17:09


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10561805)



So, they don’t really care about the Irish border then?

Just asking....

The Irish border is a UK problem, because we (the UK) are leaving them (the EU). It is more than a shame that David Cameron gave little or no thought to the consequences of a "Leave" vote; had he and his colleagues done so they might have thought twice before calling a flawed referendum.

IcePack 4th Sep 2019 17:52

Strikes me this fiasco all comes down, from the start to lack of party discipline. Seems now as an MP you can change your allegiance from one party to another without re-election or not vote for your parties policies. Basically it is worse than a coalition. The poor public who voted for their preferred party now are left wondering what they voted for. This seems to be true for any political party.

Fly Aiprt 4th Sep 2019 17:53


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 10561800)
To put the record straight, we don't have to ask the EU if we want to trade with it, but we will have to get an agreement if we want a preferential trading agreement.

ATNotts, good point, thanks.


ThorMos 4th Sep 2019 18:10


Originally Posted by IcePack (Post 10561842)
Strikes me this fiasco all comes down, from the start to lack of party discipline. Seems now as an MP you can change your allegiance from one party to another without re-election or not vote for your parties policies. Basically it is worse than a coalition. The poor public who voted for their preferred party now are left wondering what they voted for. This seems to be true for any political party.

Just some 'food for thought': shouldn't an mp be only be lead by his own conscience? Should party politics play a more important role than what he thinks is right?

Fly Aiprt 4th Sep 2019 18:19


Originally Posted by ATNotts (Post 10561812)
had he and his colleagues done so they might have thought twice before calling a flawed referendum.

I've been told that those who "invented" the Leave Referendum idea did so for domestic politic reasons, and didn't even believe the result would be Leave.
Now Britain is like the dog that caught the car...


back to Boeing 4th Sep 2019 20:06


Originally Posted by IcePack (Post 10561842)
Strikes me this fiasco all comes down, from the start to lack of party discipline. Seems now as an MP you can change your allegiance from one party to another without re-election or not vote for your parties policies. Basically it is worse than a coalition. The poor public who voted for their preferred party now are left wondering what they voted for. This seems to be true for any political party.

Remind me. How many times since his election in 2910 has Jacob Rees-Mogg voted against the party whip? Also how did his constituents vote in the 2016 referendum?

What’s good for the goose......

Steepclimb 4th Sep 2019 21:24

Remarkable and glorious hypocrisy from BJ. Apparently voting against the your own party deserves removing the whip. As if he never did it.

Unless you're BJ. Even Winston Churchill's grandson, a most distinguished Conservative is apparently an enemy of the people.

I think we now have a list of 21, 22 actual patriots who care more about their country than their disjointed party.

BJ as everyone who knows him is all about him. That's no secret.

Yet this person is the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom.

Aghast!




​​​

WingNut60 4th Sep 2019 22:07

Do you like Warm Weather? Steve Smith? Sane and stable (if not slightly condescending) government?
Look for the one with the kangaroo on the tail.

NumptyAussie 4th Sep 2019 22:13


Originally Posted by WingNut60 (Post 10562014)
Do you like Warm Weather? Steve Smith? Sane and stable (if not slightly condescending) government?
Look for the one with the kangaroo on the tail.

Aye, 5 Prime ministers in 6 years.


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