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-   -   Mr Khan's ULEZ. (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/616209-mr-khans-ulez.html)

ZOOKER 10th Dec 2018 11:55

Mr Khan's ULEZ.
 
Coming soon, to a U.K. capital city near you. https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....7db570a594.png

SpringHeeledJack 10th Dec 2018 13:15

All well and good, but it will just put up the price of EVERYTHING in the ULEZ and cause a ripple outwards......All the owners of non-compliant vehicles will be squeezed even more with unknown consequences. Good quality air is important for a healthy life, but practicalities have to be considered. What about free public transport, better walking and bicycle transport opportunities to take vehicles off the streets if reducing pollution IS the aim.

KelvinD 10th Dec 2018 16:57

I would suggest people check if their vehicle is subject to this or not. Mine isn't.

Fareastdriver 10th Dec 2018 16:59

This is the website.

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ult...m-checker-ulez

racedo 10th Dec 2018 17:18


Originally Posted by KelvinD (Post 10332598)
I would suggest people check if their vehicle is subject to this or not. Mine isn't.

YET.

Diesels will be banned after the system is in place, then in 10 years it will be Petrol cars.

SMT Member 10th Dec 2018 19:58

Audi's just launched a leecy SUV, giving the modern urbanist a socially viable alternative. I'm sure they'll make a killing on it and subsequent models, as the major cities in Europe all start banning diesel, then petrol.

Last car with combustion engine will go on sale in 2030 where I live. Might as well get used to it, I'm sure there'll be plenty of smart offerings along the way, and before we get there range will have reached the magical 1000 km.

KelvinD 10th Dec 2018 23:50


Diesels will be banned after the system is in place, then in 10 years it will be Petrol cars.
Isn't that more or less in line with the government's policy then? I thought petrol and diesel engines were to cease to exist around 2040 or so?

HyFlyer 11th Dec 2018 00:35

The horse was domesticated because it was a better solution than walking.
The carriage was added as it provided more comfort and great convenience than just the horse
The horse and carriage was replaced by the car because it was a better solution than this setup.
At no time did either transition require government mandate and punitive taxation to force it to happen. Quite the contrary in fact, as in each case the governments of the time established legislation that made such a transition a hard won battle, often restricting the change to only the elite as the idea was so good.
Each transition succeeded because they were good ideas and brought real benefits and it was obvious to the people that this was so.

Then we have the move to electric cars.................not the same at all.....I wonder why.

Traffic_Is_Er_Was 11th Dec 2018 03:50

People are already choking on the clouds of smug emitted by the owners of electric vehicles.

Curious Pax 11th Dec 2018 08:20


Originally Posted by HyFlyer (Post 10332876)
The horse was domesticated because it was a better solution than walking.
The carriage was added as it provided more comfort and great convenience than just the horse
The horse and carriage was replaced by the car because it was a better solution than this setup.
At no time did either transition require government mandate and punitive taxation to force it to happen. Quite the contrary in fact, as in each case the governments of the time established legislation that made such a transition a hard won battle, often restricting the change to only the elite as the idea was so good.
Each transition succeeded because they were good ideas and brought real benefits and it was obvious to the people that this was so.

Then we have the move to electric cars.................not the same at all.....I wonder why.

The providers of hay for horses were a lot less powerful then than the current providers of fuel for vehicles, so more encouragement is needed for the next step in human evolution!

B Fraser 11th Dec 2018 12:36

Very strange, neither my Nordic diesel powered "tank" nor my 6 cylinder track day fun car are shown as being liable for the ULEZ charge.

I smell a rat.

chuks 11th Dec 2018 13:13

Watch out for what operators of non-UK registered vehicles have to do. That is a whole different kettle of fish, and one that stinks. You can have a vehicle that is compliant, but it still has to be registered in advance for entry into the LEZ if it's non-UK registered.

I recently did a run from Bremen to the Albert Hall in a Euro 6-compliant, less than 3.5-ton, less than 8-seat Mercedes Sprinter van, one with German number plates of course. I went in on Friday late afternoon and came out on Sunday morning early, so no congestion charge, but a few weeks later the firm got a nastygram from the Mayor's office, one demanding about 1,400 quid for operating in the LEZ! Oh, and 1,700 quid if we did not pay within two weeks!

The way the notice, in German, was worded gave no way to claim exemption from this charge, one supported with two camera shots of the van inside the LEZ. There was no office to contact directly about this, just some postal address somewhere in North London.

It turned out that I should have registered the van before I went into the Zone, except that there was no notice of needing to do that whatsoever. (I had actually spent about 7 months in London, but before the LEZ had come into force; I knew about the congestion charge, putting those little stickers on the headlamps, and driving on the left, but that was all.)

You might think that the authorities would put something up at the ferry ports and the Chunnel, just as they tell you to put stickers on the headlamps if you have a LHD vehicle, and to drive on the left, but there is nothing about the LEZ until you come across this odd little round sign with a green rim. If you are driving a bike, a car, or a Euro 6 light van you might just think "So what?" as I did.

I read up on this afterwards, because I sometimes go to the UK on my motorcycle. (As it happens, this bike, a BMW R1100S, has no emissions category on its papers, so I think I need to ask BMW about that. I think it was not a requirement back in 2002, when I bought it.) If I want to use it in the LEZ I will have to meet all sorts of requirements, including setting up an account with these pirates.

I assume that anyone from the Continent who decides to visit the famous Ace Cafe on the London North Circular is going to be at risk of getting a surprising demand for some considerable sum of money from the Mayor's office if he does not know in advance about the LEZ and how to operate within it. It's one of those things where a third- or fourth-hand entity is able to take an unwary motorist to court in his home country and rack up a hefty sum; if you just put the notice in the circular file you will be sooo screwed. It's about like cowboy clamping on a grand scale.

I got us out of the fine by taking advice from the ADAC (German Automobile Club) and then writing a letter in my very best Queen's English. In reply we got a "Okay for this time, but don't do it again!"

Sallyann1234 11th Dec 2018 13:18

Out of interest, what happens if you put your German number plate into the LEZ checker?
Does it just say 'not recognised' or does it offer advice on how to register?

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ult...m-checker-ulez

ORAC 11th Dec 2018 14:56

From The Times:

ULEZ fee — the new London pollution charge — may be mayor Sadiq Khan’s ‘poll tax moment’

About 1m vehicles will be hit by a new levy to drive in large parts of London that is expected to raise up to six times as much as the congestion charge. The “ultra-low emission zone” (ULEZ) fee of £12.50 a day will be a financial lifeline for Transport for London (TfL), which faces a cash crisis after the mayor, Sadiq Khan, froze fares and the government cut its grant. It will collect between £700m and £1.5bn a year from motorists. The congestion charge raises £230m.

“This could be Sadiq’s poll tax,” said Gareth Bacon, leader of the Conservative group on the London assembly. “It has flown under the radar and people do not know what is going to hit them.” Referring to protests against motoring taxes in France, Bacon said the mayor “could have his own gilets jaunes moment once people realise they will be paying up to £4,000 a year more to drive their own cars”.

Khan says the charge, levied on older and more polluting vehicles, is vital to clean up the capital’s air. But he was accused of misleading the public after analysis of TfL documents revealed that City Hall had dramatically understated the numbers who face having to pay.

The new charge applies to nearly all diesel cars and vans licensed before September 2015, petrol cars and vans licensed before 2006 and motorbikes or mopeds licensed before July 2007. Larger diesel vans licensed before September 2016 must also pay. From 2019 to 2021, the charge will be levied only in the relatively small central London congestion charging zone. However, from 2021 it will be applied to any movement within London’s North and South Circular roads, an area extending up to 10 miles from the centre, with a population of 3.8m people. It will operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week with no residents’ discount.

The impact assessment forecasts that 276,000 vans entering the charging area will be affected, eight times the number given by City Hall. It says 245,000 will “stay and pay” and the rest will withdraw from the market or be replaced by cleaner vehicles. The document admits that in the short term there will be a “major potential negative impact” on “Asian business owners”, many of whom run small enterprises. It also predicts that 69,000 lorries will be affected, 23 times the number given by City Hall. About 16,000 coaches and 29,000 minicabs will attract the charge, although cabs that can carry wheelchairs will be exempt until 2025. The total number of four-wheeled or larger vehicles affected will be 955,000. Including motorcycles, for which data is not given, the number is likely to be around or just over 1m.

The documents do not give the figures straightforwardly. The number of cars can be found only by measuring the axes on a bar chart. The number of vans and lorries affected can only be found by using a calculator. TfL assumes the age profile of cars in London stays the same.

A spokeswoman for Khan said the figure of 100,000 cars and the others published by City Hall represented the number of vehicles that would pay the charge “on an average day”. She said the charge, “the toughest emission standard adopted by any city in the world,” was a “vital step” to “tackle our filthy air”.

TfL hopes people faced with the charge will abandon their cars. Its website states: “If your vehicle does not meet the required ULEZ standards you can: walk.”.....


DaveReidUK 11th Dec 2018 15:46


Originally Posted by ORAC (Post 10333233)
From The Times:

TfL hopes people faced with the charge will abandon their cars. Its website states: “If your vehicle does not meet the required ULEZ standards you can: walk.”.....


The Times article is, of course, behind a paywall so it's not possible to tell if the editing is theirs or yours.

What the TfL website actually says is:


We would prefer vehicle owners to use vehicles that meet the new emissions standards rather than pay a daily charge.

If your vehicle does not meet the required ULEZ standards you can:

Upgrade to a second-hand vehicle that meets ULEZ standards
Pay the daily charge
Join a car club
Go electric
Fit emissions reduction technology
Retrofit: convert to Liquid Petroleum Gas (LPG)
See if you qualify for a discount or exemption
No mention of walking, anywhere on the page. But don't let the facts get in the way of a good story. :O

More worryingly, there is nothing on the website to advise how many baked beans I can safely consume before bringing my bicycle into the ULEZ.

ORAC 11th Dec 2018 16:02

No mention of walking? First option in the page......

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ult...opeds-and-more

“...Your Options

If your vehicle does not meet the required ULEZ standards you can:

Walk, cycle or use our public transport network”..........


DaveReidUK 11th Dec 2018 17:30

OK, I stand corrected, thanks.

Still concerned about my diet and cycle-borne emissions ...

racedo 11th Dec 2018 17:44

So Plan of avoidance of visiting London for short period of time from abroad. Drive to just outside London, change number plate to one of a Tractor at home, drive in London, remove when leave London. Simples

chuks 11th Dec 2018 17:54

This is buggeration on a galactic scale!

That penalty notice we got was naked of any such information about how to object to it, and I certainly did not find the links that appear here even though I surely did look.

I wonder how many Europeans have been caught out by this so far.

Part of the registration process, I think, is opening an account with TfL, one that I assume includes credit card information much like checking into a hotel. It's winter now, so that I will get back to this next spring if I want to visit the UK, since I do usually visit London then.

Sallyann1234 11th Dec 2018 19:49


Originally Posted by racedo (Post 10333349)
So Plan of avoidance of visiting London for short period of time from abroad. Drive to just outside London, change number plate to one of a Tractor at home, drive in London, remove when leave London. Simples

Or use your Russian CD plate. That will probably be exempt anyway. :=


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