PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Jet Blast (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast-16/)
-   -   The Death of DIY?? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/616002-death-diy.html)

Ancient Observer 3rd Dec 2018 13:21

The Death of DIY??
 
I regard myself as being average at diy. So if a garden or home "thing" breaks down, or needs improving, I will have a go. Before motor engines became all electrical and clever, I would take them apart. And try to re-build them. My brother is much the same.

However, in the UK it appears that anyone under 40 just can't be bothered any more. DIY stores are suffering sales drops. Is this a lazy Brit thing, or is it more common?

Bob Viking 3rd Dec 2018 13:36

AO
 
Do you know ALL the people under 40 in the UK? Thatís impressive.

Can you be so sure that demographic alone are responsible for the death of DIY?

Maybe less people under 40 have a house and therefore less need for DIY?

Clearly Iím being facetious but perhaps, as your title suggests, you are a little out of touch with the younger generations and shouldnít be so quick to judge?

Now Iíve gone and done it...

BV

UpaCreak 3rd Dec 2018 14:01

Maybe DIY is not everyones bag. No1 Son in law (35) is computer genius, software writer, and amazing chef, but doesn't know which way to hold a screwdriver. I can manage to just about cook scrambled eggs, and work a laptop, but I have built several scale model live steam locomotives.

Blues&twos 3rd Dec 2018 14:39

It's a combination of things, I reckon.
1) Things aren't designed to be repaired any more.
2) Things are cheap to replace
3) Spare parts are often more expensive than replacement equipment
4) Spares are frequently not easily available
5) A majority of people seem to no longer have the will or time to do the repairs
6) Electronic things are not particularly easy to fault find, and you need special equipment and knowledge
7) All of the above has lead to a general de-skilling, so quite a lot of people wouldn't have the first idea where to start, even with simple repairs.

lomapaseo 3rd Dec 2018 15:07

It's likely due to the influx of cheap labour brought about by too many people at the bottom of the shrinking food chain

obgraham 3rd Dec 2018 15:52

I think AO is correct, however, when I note how many people are incapable of unblocking the trap under the kitchen sink.

(Of course, that skill would not be so needed if wimyn would stop putting potato peels down the disposer.)

racedo 3rd Dec 2018 16:05

Problem with DIY chains is they constantly expect people to buy more and more.

What has been obvious since 2008 crash is people are not moving house, therefore doing up and extending property they are in. Secondly many of the propertys that have been done up were in the rented sector where Landlords bought and did these up or tenants did it.

Now having done up property why do you need to do it again, so instead of painting every 1-2 years its 3-4 years. Natural end of life cycle.

gemma10 3rd Dec 2018 16:22

These are the people for spares. https://www.espares.co.uk

Ancient Observer 3rd Dec 2018 16:23

As Mr Viking points out, I do not know everyone under 40. However, I have two children in their 20s and they have lots of friends. None of them will touch diy. For our children, I get called in.
I have pondered this for a while. Even the British Times was commenting on it today. I can't paste a link as it is behind a paywall.

The "buy new" trend is a problem. Who will sell me the bits? My Mountfield leaf blower was poorly. Without Mr Google I doubt that I would have found spares. It was only a cheap leaf blower, but UKP25 on spares is better than UKP150 on a new one.

I need diy providers to stay in business!

pr00ne 3rd Dec 2018 16:24

I have always avoided DIY like the plague, far more enjoyable and fun things to do with both my time and my money. If a lot of younger folk are cottoning on then good for them.

Ancient Observer 3rd Dec 2018 16:32

If there was an important diy project to be done, I would be doing it in my man cave, not typing on pprune.

pr00ne 3rd Dec 2018 16:40

A man cave? Don't tell me, you call your wife SWMBO as well?

And I totaly fail to understand the meaning of an "important" DIY project, never come across one in all my 71 years. (Edited to say it's 70 and a bit years...)

ATNotts 3rd Dec 2018 16:57

I use DIY stores infrequently as I am totally useless with screwdrivers, saws, hammers, wallpaper, taps and the like. When I do it generally involves two trips. One to buy what I believe I need, and then a second later the same day to return it because I've picked up the wrong stuff.

Principal DIY-er in our house is Mrs. ATN!

Pontius Navigator 3rd Dec 2018 16:59

I am fitting shelves in a new house. The airing cupboard was easy. The Utility with adjustable shelves was more difficult and the pantry, so far, has been impossible.

The difficulty with the Utility was finding a DIY store that had the right number of the correct size brackets.

The pantry presents a similar with the addition of getting the right size of material for the shelves.

The DIY stores I have visited have some stock but maybe one or two items rather than the number I need, so clearly there is DIY but not much.

Tankertrashnav 3rd Dec 2018 17:30

First house - I put up a shelf which fell off the wall and nearly brained our one year old son who was in his rocker on the kitchen floor. One year later I built a wall out of those ornamental concrete blocks you made in a mould. Got the concrete mix wrong for the mortar. Son (now a strapping two year old) pushed it over. Then turned to car mechanics. Shocked at the price of a new exhaust for my old Wolseley I decided to save a fiver by fitting it myself. Took me several hours and managed to graze my knuckles and damage my starter motor pulling the old exhaust off - cost of repair - ten quid!

At which point Mrs TTN suggested that maybe DIY wasnt my thing. I was quite happy to agree and ever since I have always "got a man in" when anything needed doing!

treadigraph 3rd Dec 2018 17:37


and nearly brained our one year old son who was in his rocker
Good job it missed him or he would have been off his rocker.

Been doing too much DIY in recent months but I'd rather do things I can do myself than pay somebody else...

DType 3rd Dec 2018 18:51

Paid the callout charge to get a man in to fix the hob on our cooker. He returned to base then told us there were no spares for such an old model.
Went on the manufacturer's website and took a guess at a likely part, which was cheaper than the callout charge. When it arrived it fitted straight in and has worked AOK ever since.
Note:- FType does not like DIY, she was hoping for a new cooker.

Uplinker 3rd Dec 2018 19:04

Problem I get is that some so called “tradesmen” are either useless, or don’t do a good job or don’t know what they’re doing. A painter who was a family friend painted the windows without rubbing them down first so then they jammed and wouldn’t close, and the same guy put the bathroom tiles on like a row of crooked teeth. When challenged about the tiles, he said “they’ll be alright when they’re grouted”. No they won’t, I want them flat and straight, goodbye.

I am able to tackle most DIY projects and have put in a complete central heating and hot water system from scratch, ditto complete house wiring, ditto a complete kitchen, flooring out a loft and putting up shelves. And fixing the washing machine and family cars.

I can build a brick wall but it won’t be very neat, ditto plastering, so for those latter two, I need to find a real expert tradesman. I am not good at painting - I always make a mess despite trying not to.

Problem is, white van man can be a Leonardo da Vinci or an idiot from the job centre, and you don’t know which until it is too late.

Pontius Navigator 3rd Dec 2018 19:12

Uplinker, I guess my best car DIY was dismantling a 2-speed wiper motor and also on a separate occasion the control stalk. Had to drill out rivets and improvise to fasten it all together. Both worked.

​​​​​

Random SLF 3rd Dec 2018 19:25

Luckily for me all of our kids can DIY, and the eldest grandson too. Even though I've successfully fitted bathrooms & kitchens in the past, I've got myself banned from wallpapering because it gives me Tourette's Syndrome... :*

Hydromet 3rd Dec 2018 19:31


Originally Posted by UpaCreak (Post 10326892)
Maybe DIY is not everyones bag. No1 Son in law (35) is computer genius, software writer, and amazing chef, but doesn't know which way to hold a screwdriver. I can manage to just about cook scrambled eggs, and work a laptop, but I have built several scale model live steam locomotives.

My SIL is the same in just about every detail. Daughter is the same, except that she can DIY pretty well. Just as well someone in the house can.

Saintsman 3rd Dec 2018 20:56

If something needs doing, my kids will call me. I tell them it’s easy, but they won’t have it and having seen one of them attempt to do some painting, well it’s better that I start the job rather than correct their efforts...

M.Mouse 3rd Dec 2018 21:28

Before becoming a pilot I was in the building trade. I could write a book on some of the disastrous, and often dangerous, things I have seen done by DIYers. I have no problem if someone wants to carry out DIY but at least recognise what talents, or lack of, are present and seek advice from someone who knows what they are talking about.

Things have never been helped when there used to be a series of publications called 'W****s Good Idea Book No.xx'....How to rewire your house or some other ludicrously simplified explanation of how to carry out a major job. At least the more dangerous areas of DIY wiring have been outlawed.

Coupled with the often appalling levels of DIY workmanship the big stores sell an extraordinary amount of cheap and nasty materials. Recipe for disaster.

FullOppositeRudder 3rd Dec 2018 21:31

I've always been inclined to DIY if at all possible. I had to out on the farm. This extended to items of farm machinery, several trailers, plumbing and electrical, a couple of significant towers for amateur radio work and the aluminium to decorate them. I'm a bit more selective these days because of aging bones. Mind you, I'll only go so far. My cooking ability pretty finishes at making toast.

One of my SIL will have a go at anything; the other has never demonstrated the the inclination or the ability.

Australia's biggest hardware chain (Bunnings) still seems very crowded every time I visit. People must still be doing stuff somewhere. Ditto for Ikea. Perhaps not all is lost just yet.

Bull at a Gate 3rd Dec 2018 21:36

DIY in Australia is booming. The hugely successful (in Oz at least) hardware conglomerate "Bunnings" is full of people every weekend. I am going there soon to get the materials for a new floating floor to be installed (by me of course) in my new shed. All the tools I need will be there and there is a huge range of flooring styles available.

The shed also needs a rainwater tank and associated roof plumbing - also available at Bunnings. And I just finished painting it inside and staining it outside, guess where I went to get the materials?

I am far from alone.

WingNut60 3rd Dec 2018 21:47

In my opinion it all goes back to "how or where would they ever start to develop any manual dexterity or the nous for DIY.

My generation could all fix a puncture in a bike tyre by the time we were 10 YO.
And our exposure to things mechanical (and electrical) progressed from there.
I caried out my first car engine change before I was 15.

Now, it's Leggo blocks until they're 15. And gaming on the z-Pad.
Not the same!

Trinity 09L 3rd Dec 2018 21:57

I always take my tool box when visiting my daughters properties. Plenty of jobs, lamps to change, self build furniture to construct, batteries to change in toys, advise on what can be built, plumb,wire at suitable price/location
there men fix my phones / laptops buy the drinks etc in exchange






WingNut60 3rd Dec 2018 21:57


Originally Posted by Bull at a Gate and also FullOpposte (Post 10327206)
DIY in Australia is booming. .....
I am far from alone.

You are quite correct.
But I think that is a different category of DIY from that of the original post.
More like kit assembly, or most of it is.
Not a lot of technical skill or manual dexterity required.

Jetstream67 3rd Dec 2018 22:06

I agree ( 3 kids in their 20's who have successfully ignored months of DIY projects going on around them)

Labour rates in recent years made getting a tradesman in cheaper than buying the tools each time they checked, plus woodwork and metalwork no longer seen as exciting at school so there's also fear of messing it up.

Older generation have the tools and the skill and the experience -> confidence. OK it took a week to paint the room but it's lovely
Younger generation do consider DIY but not in the way we did 30 -40 years ago. A week of evenings is incredibly boringly "long" and DIY has no bragging power :-)

jimtherev 3rd Dec 2018 22:11

If it's fun - i.e. mechanical / simple electronic / small cosmetic / 'make me a gadget to...' then I'm up for it. And usually a trawl on line will find any component I need.
If it needs lots of energy / ladderwork / getting filthy or exhausted then at my time of life it's 'get a man in'.
But there's a workshop down at the bottom of the garden with lots of stuff in I couldn't afford earlier in life - so why not use it?

Jetstream67 3rd Dec 2018 22:12


Originally Posted by Bull at a Gate (Post 10327206)
DIY in Australia is booming. The hugely successful (in Oz at least) hardware conglomerate "Bunnings" is full of people every weekend. I am going there soon to get the materials for a new floating floor to be installed (by me of course) in my new shed. All the tools I need will be there and there is a huge range of flooring styles available.

The shed also needs a rainwater tank and associated roof plumbing - also available at Bunnings. And I just finished painting it inside and staining it outside, guess where I went to get the materials?

I am far from alone.


FYI Bunnings UK retail DIY venture just went spectacularly bust as they totally failed to recognise that DIY is no longer sexy over here in the UK for the under 40's

The over 40's and UK tradespeople bought what they knew they needed from trade outlets that were cheaper and happy to sell to anyone who knew what they needed and why.

Gertrude the Wombat 3rd Dec 2018 22:13


Originally Posted by Jetstream67 (Post 10327225)
Labour rates in recent years made getting a tradesman in cheaper than buying the tools each time they checked

That's usually the case. But not quite always - I just bought a £7.50 tool in order to repair something that would have cost £45 to replace, so you can win occasionally.

Originally Posted by Jetstream67 (Post 10327225)
plus woodwork and metalwork no longer seen as exciting at school so there's also fear of messing it up.

Neither was on offer at my school. My grandfather was, on the other hand, a woodworking teacher (after being a cabinet maker). He did occasionally have a go at showing me how to do things, but it was blindingly obvious that it would take years of full time work to get as good as him (I've got some of his stuff) so I never tried.

tartare 3rd Dec 2018 22:20

Thing that struck me about DIY while living in London was that there was f*ck all room or space to do me hammering, sawing and store me tools.
Density of population - no man shed etc.
Noise, dust, major pain in the arse.
B&Q was good in terms of range of stuff needed - prices were very reasonable - most of my power tools are British.
But here in the great Southern Land - plenty of space to make noise, mess and fix or build things!
Saturday is not complete without a trip to the man Supermarket.
Son and mates recently completed science project building an electric motor - 6 lads out in the garage using all Dad's power tools and making a huge mess.
No fingers/limbs were lost and they all got full marks.
So I'm not too sure about the under 40s bit.

Loose rivets 3rd Dec 2018 22:49

This self-congratulatory ramble does have a punch line - and a moral to the story.

I've done most everything since I was one year old. I managed to plunge Colchester library into darkness during the war and flooded the hospital waiting room (huge, with Parquet flooring) while learning about wiring and cast iron plumbing.

First job, take down old red-brick chimney, extend slate roof, and install the first north facing window where the fireplace used to be. Second, a 10' X 8' book shelves backing onto what was a very 60's open staircase. All solid mahogany, 3/4" that would support Britannica on a shelf with ease. Then a 300 sq ft kitchen with 5th bedroom above. That cost 1800 quid including the planning application. Okay, it was in 1978.

Years later I moved half the roof up and forward using 17' RSJ's to span the lifted area, installed another bathroom under and then rewired the 113 sockets and introduced two consumer units with the new-fangled RCCD's. I then oak panelled my den and a walk-in cupboard. A thousand quid's worth of American oak to get the height, and Chinese oak for the panels. Six weeks of detailed work using a router, but finishing with chisels to give the hand made look to surfaces. There was not a single finger mark on the light oak. The box section around the vertical plumbing in one corner took a week to do. It had to be removable for pipes and ever increasing alarm and data cables. Hiding wires and pipes has been a fetish of mine since sproghood when I drilled holes in my Hercules crossbar to take lighting wires to the dynamo.

Yadda yadda yadda.

DIY in the genes? Could be. The semi-siblings I discovered in 2001 had worked extensively on their homes, and both had zoned the heating to save running costs. My boiler-house contained the controls for the three zones and two hot water circulation systems to give instant hot in the furthest bathroom.

I can still hear the estate agent's voice on the phone. "Mr Rivets, we just want you to stop". DIYing, that is. I was just finishing the grouting to the laundry. Nice it was. Bloody nice. Kitchen had three sinks and the laundry offered the fourth - under a suspended ceiling with spotlights. The sink from there was going into the integral garage as the 5th sink.

I then picked the wrong moment to sell the house and may as well not have done one single job.

But it got worse.

One visit home to the UK, the Rivetess comes back to a summer rent flat and says, 'There's a load of broken oak on the front drive.'

'NO! Can't have done . . . can he?' Yep, he had. Stripped the lot off and for some reason pulled down the brick built and newly tiled side building that was the walk in cupboard, and water softener room, and log drying store, and . . .

He removed the tiles from the 'Half Bathroom' downstairs and blue washed the plaster. The tiles were very expensive (a bloke that had called selling kitchen stuff, who'd done tiling as his main trade, told me the standard was as good as he could have achieved. Secret was, I'd built the loo and it was planned around a tile size and very accurate.)

SO F42^$#^@$# what? Bloody Nora! The tiles, along with all those spares hidden away, had gone.

He's uprooted a lovely weeping birch that was taller than the house, and torn down a garden wall that was capped with home cast . . . erm, caps. I think the fine oak is now just a stump. A big stump. Its boughs were 10" diameter.

Evening after evening I'd realise that I hadn't cleaned the cement mixer, or I hadn't brushed off the mortar from new brickwork. (It has to be done just as it has dried but is not hard. - next morning will NOT do. )

All in all, a waste of a good chunk of my life.

Or was it? The doing of it. It carried on in the US. Something used to drive me to just do jobs. Two days to hang the front door? The Rivetess suggested. Two weeks, more like. And that's exactly what it took to hang a $1000 door I'd paid $90 for. It was dead centre, dead vertical and shut like a Rolls Royce, but the people that bought the house couldn't have given a toss - but it pleased me every time I closed it.

krismiler 3rd Dec 2018 23:10

Being able to change a tap washer used to be a basic measure of DIY competence, now you need to buy a whole new tap.

My son complained about his bicycle being broken, turns out that the chain had come off and it didn't occur to him to try and put it back on.

WingNut60 3rd Dec 2018 23:34


Originally Posted by krismiler (Post 10327269)
My son complained about his bicycle being broken, turns out that the chain had come off and it didn't occur to him to try and put it back on.

You might want to explain to him one of the more dire consequences of the chain coming off.
And no, I don't mean having to walk home.

FullOppositeRudder 3rd Dec 2018 23:35

One of the reasons why DIY would appear to have retained popularity in OZ is that several of the TV gardening programs started to include minor DIY segments - painting / decorating flower pots and the like. This morphed into redesigning a complete garden corner, and then in time sprucing up the back verandah, building a pergola / barbeque / garden shed. Before you could snap a drill bit it went on to renovations to a room / rooms / almost the whole house. All this on an entire TV program if you don't mind. Other networks copied and for a while you were hard pressed to avoid these DIY programs, always with a tradie type bloke taking advice from a by no means unattractive female brandishing a new cordless electric drill or paint roller or wrecking hammer about to take out a partition (or put one in somewhere). I rarely watch TV beyond the news and perhaps Whatshisname in a pink jacket on a train somewhere brandishing an increasingly dilapidated book on how it was a hundred years ago, but this DIY fad seems to diminished in its frenzy, perhaps even died out altogether. Perhaps it's been overtaken to the point of total extinction by a scourge of cooking and food shows - an even bigger waste of spectrum if you ask me.

I did change a couple of tap washers earlier in the week without destroying the entire plumbing network. Quite a neat job I thought.

TWT 3rd Dec 2018 23:35


My generation could all fix a puncture in a bike tyre by the time we were 10
Yes. But that's because many of us had to or we'd be walking.

I carried a puncture repair kit on my bike and had to use it a few times on my cycling journey of 6 miles to school. Even if mobile phones were around back then it wouldn't have helped me. There was no-one to come and pick me up.

I did walk a few times pushing the bike in the rain when I didn't have a vulcanising kit available.

WingNut60 3rd Dec 2018 23:41


Originally Posted by FullOppositeRudder (Post 10327278)
One of the reasons why DIY would appear to have retained popularity in OZ is that several of the TV gardening programs started to include minor DIY segments - painting / decorating flower pots and the like. This morphed into redesigning a complete garden corner, and then in time sprucing up the back verandah, building a pergola / barbeque / garden shed. Before you could snap a drill bit it went on to renovations to a room / rooms / almost the whole house........
.

Tim (the Toolman) Taylor?

IFMU 4th Dec 2018 00:23

DIY is alive and well here in the Colonies. I will agree however there are masses of people who don't know which is the pointy end of a screwdriver. I am doing my best to keep it alive by doing small projects with my sons. My older boy and I are building an airplane (a Sonex Waiex 2 seater), and we totally rebuilt my '99 car. He drives it to school every day now. My younger son has built a human hamster wheel and has recently finished his second hovercraft. I have a '98 car in the project queue for his benefit as well.


All times are GMT. The time now is 19:21.


Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.