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-   -   The Death of DIY?? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/616002-death-diy.html)

Fitter2 5th Dec 2018 15:01

Number 1 son through boyhood observed that most home repairs/improvements etc. could be done without involving expensive 'professional' assistance. Now with a home of his own, with birthday due requested a cordless drill as preferred gift. Message of approval received, with thanks for the quality and features, and a pic. of its first practical application.

It's how you bring them up.

krismiler 5th Dec 2018 15:03

The BBC TV series "Survivors" from the 1970s was very similar. A virus had wiped out most of the earth's population and those left behind had to learn everything from scratch, even how to make a candal. Builders, carpenters, plumbers and mechanics had invaluable skills. Lawyers were pretty useless as there wasn't the resources to start engaging in trivial arguments and criminals got summary justice.

Pontius Navigator 5th Dec 2018 15:23

Couple of years ago prepared a small cooking fire for GD and GS. Collected twigs, created shavings and feathers a built the cone. My last words, now collect lots of twigs and then some thicker sticks. At this point I was called away. Dad came home and decided to light fire for kids.

Poof, gone.

Lesson 2, keeping a fire burning.😀

Then made them a 3-rope bridge, ie two hand ropes. Returned later to discover they had made it longer with only two ropes, got it high enough to clear the ground, and also tensioned it.

Then asked them how tall the trees were.

Provide the kit and their imaginations do the rest.

Ancient Observer 5th Dec 2018 16:29

Wow!
We have got this far and no one has raised the fabulous Balsa wood propeller planes with real, tiny engines. The engines were not that reliable, so one learnt on the go how to repair them.

VP959 5th Dec 2018 16:56


Originally Posted by Pontius Navigator (Post 10328450)
Of Made in Japan, in the 50s they were imitators and my father said their weakness was poor metal and bad screw threads.(

My first ever Japanese bike was a Honda CB72. Lovely bike, but hopeless cross headed screws everywhere. First thing I did was buy an impact driver (the only way to get the damned screws out), second thing I did was buy a set of British replacement screws. Made servicing and repairing the bike a doddle.

Tankertrashnav 5th Dec 2018 17:08


Lawyers were pretty useless as there wasn't the resources to start engaging in trivial arguments and criminals got summary justice
.

I seem to recall that in the story they shot one of the survivors suspected of pilfering food. Turned out he was innocent - but he didnt have a lawyer to plead his case

I'm also reminded of the "Noahs ark" spaceship which had been sent off from an overcrowded earth supposedly to search for new planets in The Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy. One contained all the useless people they wanted to get rid of (not builders, carpenters, plumbers etc) who included telephone sanitisers. Shortly after they left, the earth's population was wiped out by a virus caught from telephones!

Hydromet 5th Dec 2018 20:12


Originally Posted by Ancient Observer (Post 10328694)
Wow!
We have got this far and no one has raised the fabulous Balsa wood propeller planes with real, tiny engines. The engines were not that reliable, so one learnt on the go how to repair them.

Granddaughter, 11, is getting a balsa model kit for Christmas, from her aunt, my DIYing, flying daughter who built her first at about the same age. Rubber band powered, though, I think. I remember the engines, also the smell of ether, blisters on the fingers from repeatedly spinning the prop, and the cane for starting one in class.

G-CPTN 5th Dec 2018 20:50


Originally Posted by Fitter2 (Post 10328612)
It's how you bring them up.

Not entirely.
My daughter was never a reader, but watched with interest whenever I was doing something.
She is a competent 'doer' as an adult.

Son was (and is) a voracious reader and, therefore, 'well-educated' - never bothered me when I was 'doing', even though I tried many times to involve him . . .
As an example, I bought a memory expansion chip for his computer printer and suggested that he helped me to install it - which he declined, stating that he was "sure I could manage". He was 11 years old.
Now that he owns his house he never attempts any job - even the smallest, simplest task (I bought him one of those comprehensive DIY manuals explaining how things work and how to fix them and also a comprehensive kit of the tools that he might need - both are unused . . . ). He calls in professionals for every task (cistern overflow, adjusting door striker plates - no job is too simple).

Gertrude the Wombat 5th Dec 2018 21:09


Originally Posted by G-CPTN (Post 10328906)
He calls in professionals for every task (cistern overflow, adjusting door striker plates - no job is too simple).

Two very different jobs - overflowing cisterns is easy, door striker plates can be quite hard, not least because you can't see what's going wrong, in which direction, or by how much, and if you cut the wood wrong it stays cut. (Having said which I did fix one the other day, by getting out a chisel and guessing right and shaving off around 0.5mm in the correct direction.)

Pontius Navigator 5th Dec 2018 21:21

Interesting and potentially expensive DIY was an identical failure of several door snecks all about 45 years old. One I had to burst open and repair the jam, another had my wife, trapped inside, fortunately able to pass tools through the window.

The last I was able to pull the broken spindle collar and use a screw driver to move the sneck ratchet.

Fitting new catches was something else.

Well worth while taking a lock apart to see how it works.

axefurabz 5th Dec 2018 21:31


Something changed over the decades, either in the tubes or the patches or the glue. Once Upon A Time you could glue a patch on and the puncture would stay mended. These days there's such a small chance of that that I just replace the tube. Which I haven't had to do anyway since switching to Marathons.
That would be down to the peanuts, no?

Gertrude the Wombat 5th Dec 2018 21:49


Originally Posted by axefurabz (Post 10328935)
That would be down to the peanuts, no?

Well, if we're doing the Marathon jokes, we're back to Mal and his "please can I have a bite of Cllr [Ruth] Bagnall's Snickers?".

G-CPTN 5th Dec 2018 22:12

I thought that the first DIY job that I tackled when I bought my first house was to build a low wall with steps to 'level' the 'topsoil' left by the builders (which turned out to be subsoil which was predominantly clay - but that is a whole different story).
The first job was to drill the concrete lintel to fix the curtain rail (using the electric drill bought for me as my wedding present from my new wife).
The next job that I remember was to build a sturdy workbench using timbers 'saved' from the building site rubbish dump (I had permission).
The legs were 4"x4" and the top was scaffolding boards (with a lower 'shelf' of scaffolding boards to brace the structure).
I was also able to rescue a 20ft long 6"x12" timber beam that I cut in two with a slanting cut to make a pair of sturdy 'ramps' for car maintenance (supported on a scaffolding pole between two axle stands). Still got the kit 48 years later.
I had the (new) house built with a double-length garage with an inspection pit (builders charged me 100 as that was their standard 'deviation charge' from what would have been a single garage). The driveway was two separate concrete paths that they continued into the garage before finishing with a slab towards the rear of the garage.
I had to dig the pit myself . . .
All this detail was effected using my A4 line-drawing plan that I supplied as a guide that I found them using as the detailed construction plan (with a side access door and window as I had indicated). I used fencing boards (from their tip) for the pit cover.

WingNut60 5th Dec 2018 22:26


Originally Posted by krismiler (Post 10328430)
China has changed the way we live, with cheap manufactured goods. Kettles and toasters for a fiver, microwaves for fifty quid. Already they dominate at the lower quality end and are improving all the time. Setting up a factory producing poor quality spanners takes a lot of investment with constructing the building, buying the machinery and creating the workforce. The step up to better quality products is much easier and highly profitable, source better steel, improve staff training, polish the spanners, put them in a nice case and give a 2 year guarantee.

Now you can charge 3 times as much for them. Soon no one will be able to compete. Back in the 1970s "Made in Japan" meant rubbish, in the 1980s "Made in Korea" was a warning to potential buyers. Stand by for a seachange.

Take a look at this 1993 article about W Edwards Deming (and Juran).
Everywhere that it says "Japan" just substitute "China".

W Edwards Deming

India Four Two 5th Dec 2018 23:06


My first ever Japanese bike was a Honda CB72. Lovely bike, but hopeless cross headed screws everywhere.
I wonder if that is because you didn't have the right screwdriver. I only recently learned about JIS screws.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....6c9d2c23c5.png

https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8cf0165da2.png


https://www.webbikeworld.com/jis-screwdrivers/

Hydromet 6th Dec 2018 06:33

Then there's Pozidrive.


Well worth while taking a lock apart to see how it works.
We once moved into an old house that had many old-style locks with no keys, including D1's bedroom. This was not to her satisfaction, so she dismantled the lock, then made a wooden key to fit. After she had cleaned and re-assembled the lock, it operated so smoothly that the key lasted for the 8 years that we lived there.

Pontius Navigator 6th Dec 2018 07:57

G-CPTN

oAll this detail was effected using my A4 line-drawing plan that I supplied as a guide that I found them using as the detailed construction plan (with a side access door and window as I had indicated).
Same, I also provided a perspective drawing. Who did this the PM asked before using it.

Finding the PM was interesting. We didn't know any builders locally but there was an article in the Press and Journal about a PM who had a disagreement with his boss and quit. He was setting up on his own account.

We were one of his first clients and he did brilliant job, different workers at each stage of the work.

ShyTorque 6th Dec 2018 09:06

A few years ago we decided we'd like a wood burning stove. After visiting a few suppliers we chose one from a place some distance away and had it delivered. I contacted two local "HETAS" registered fitters for quotes to install it. One came round to look but said he wasn't actually registered, only his son was, so he couldn't actually quote. His son never turned up.... why did they bother?

The second fitter turned up, took a quick look and later sent me a text, quoting 1300 labour for installation and signing off iaw the buildings regulations, on top of the cost of supplying the flue and other parts (n.b. as is normal, the flue cost as much as the fire itself). I asked him why it was so expensive - I was expecting far less; he said it was quite a complicated job. I couldn't see why it was, we live in a bungalow. I declined his quote, downloaded and read the heating regulations, bought all the required parts for the flue and fitted it myself. The only tricky part of the job was going through the ceiling for the flue, where a joist ran, without causing damage to the ceiling. I went into the loft, boxed around the joist, removed one roof tile for the flue exit and had the job done in less than a day. I paid the local council to have it inspected and signed off. Saved myself just under 1200 in labour and considerably more by buying the flue and other parts direct from the manufacturers.

Uplinker 6th Dec 2018 10:11

Bravo to you sir, I have done similar when installing Central Heating boilers. And this is what annoys me with builders/tradesmen. You don’t know if they are any good until it is too late. Even personal recommendation is no guarantee.

Most general building things are not difficult, one simply has to think it through, and follow the regs. One thing I am nervous about is working on a high roof, since there is nothing up there to easily attach a safety line to, so the first trip up to fix a safety rope can feel a bit dodgy !

Hopefully M. Mouse will come back with a publication us competent DIYers can use to supplement our endeavours? (Thanks for the Reader’s Digest suggestion:ok:).

Regarding cross head screws. Many folk don’t realise that a Phillips screw has tapered driving flanks*, whereas Pozi drive flanks are parallel. Thus if you use the wrong driver you are not pushing against the whole surface area of the screw and will risk rounding off the internal part of the screw head: Pozi driver in a Phillips screw: bottom rounded off; Phillips driver in a Pozi screw: it will not go fully in and the top will get rounded off. If the screw is not tight you can usually get away with it, but when it is stuck in, and you damage part of the screw head with the wrong driver, the rest of the screw head will often fail since the area you are torqueing against is much reduced.

Phillips screwdrivers also try to push out of the screw head as you apply torque, owing to their tapered flanks, and this again reduces the surface area you are torqueing aginst and risks rounding off the internals of the screw.

Most cross head screws you get nowadays from the DIY/trade store (in the UK) are Pozi drives, so a Phillips driver is not the right tool for them.

*You can clearly see this in India Four Two’s photo.

Pontius Navigator 6th Dec 2018 10:48

We decided to replace a gas 'log burner' with a real one. Again sourced one from Scotland, bloody heavy. Improvised a slide and slipped it in to place.

Removed the gas flue pipe as it was not thick enough and ordered sufficient 6 in liner. The window cleaners went up and tried to fit it but the jointing cement in the original concrete flue narrowed the chimney.

As it had been built as an open fire chimney thought sod it and just used the original concrete liner. Local blacksmith made a base plate, once in place it was a tight fit and didn't need screwing in to place.

Had it swept regularly. Sold the house - no question of regs :)


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