PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Jet Blast (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast-16/)
-   -   Where does the UN imagine all these people are going to go? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/566671-where-does-un-imagine-all-these-people-going-go.html)

SOPS 25th Aug 2015 14:36

Where does the UN imagine all these people are going to go?
 
And who is going to house and feed them? And how much will the taxpayer be expected to provide in welfare.

UN reveal 3,000 migrants are crossing the Greek-Macedonia border EACH DAY | Daily Mail Online

MG23 25th Aug 2015 14:45


Originally Posted by SOPS (Post 9094543)
And who is going to house and feed them? And how much will the taxpayer be expected to provide in welfare.

To the socialist UN, the productive people of Europe are just slaves to be exploited.

It's another organization that should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Andy_S 25th Aug 2015 15:06


Originally Posted by MG23 (Post 9094552)
It's another organization that should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

The trouble is, a lot of UN officials are either nationals of countries that are not affected by the migration crisis, or aren't answerable to the electorates of countries that are. They can afford to wring their hands knowing they're not ultimately accountable. One wonders how they would react if a refugee camp was established a hundred yards away from their own homes?

funfly 25th Aug 2015 15:21

You cannot get away from the fact that these people are leaving the coast of Africa believing that life in Europe will provide a more prosperous future for them. Compare the perceived life of a European with the lives that they currently have in Africa and you can see the attraction.

In the same way that many of our own society understand little about where their 'government' support comes from, these escapees will have no comprehension about economics. It's the same motivation that caused thousands of British and Irish people to emigrate to America and Australia a number of years ago.

In the 1960s the Asians were arriving in England from Uganda and Kenya at over 1,000 per day. They, of course, had British passports and the UK government made arrangements for their distribution and accommodation. We found it difficult to accept them at the time especially following a huge influx from the West Indies. But to our credit we managed to integrate without a great deal of pain and a lot less tension than some other countries. And the overall effect of this immigration has undoubtedly been to the benefit of our country.

To try to 'wish' the problem away will not work anymore that demands to "keep out these pesky foreigners". We may well have to face the fact that many many thousands more will face the Mediterranean and all European countries will have to count the cost (as they are starting to do now) and there is little doubt that you and I will have to bear the inevitable cost of this.

There is no 'human right' that demands that everyone must have access to the standards of living we have in Europe. We feel the guilt of our own high living standards (by comparison) and this inevitably will lead us to a great deal of tolerance towards the influx. To some extent we are stuffed because we seem to have no control over the outflow from the African continent and we have to deal with those who arrive - often in a dire condition. Our choice is to help or let die and this is as close to blackmail as we can tolerate - even the most 'UKIP' among us wouldn't just leave a man to drown.

It might just be something that we have to accept as the way of the future.

Lonewolf_50 25th Aug 2015 15:29

The UN has a curious way of treating the sovereign nations that make it up.

funfly 25th Aug 2015 15:32

I think the day of 'Sovereign Nations' is over. The only way that massive and complicated problems like this can be solved is by united effort by all the countries concerned.

MG23 25th Aug 2015 15:49


Originally Posted by funfly (Post 9094596)
I think the day of 'Sovereign Nations' is over. The only way that massive and complicated problems like this can be solved is by united effort by all the countries concerned.

No. Globalization is over. Nationalism is rising all over the world.

I do agree about nations, though. The future is much smaller communities, with far less travel and migration. The idea of a post-industrial society of hundreds of millions of people being told what to do from Brussels or Washington is just silly, and no-one's going to want to let in people who hate them and can make weapons on a 3D printer.

Lonewolf_50 25th Aug 2015 15:50


Originally Posted by funfly (Post 9094596)
I think the day of 'Sovereign Nations' is over. The only way that massive and complicated problems like this can be solved is by united effort by all the countries concerned.

I strongly disagree with you. They are necessary for the hope of freedom and to avoid the over concentration of power, in the globe, in the hands of a few.

A supra-national organization like the UN must have harsh limits on its authority. If it gets more power, tyranny is the result.

vulcanised 25th Aug 2015 16:31

Both the UN and the EU are 'ideas' oriented.

Neither bother themselves with detailed consequences.

Uncle Fred 25th Aug 2015 17:26

The answer to any mass displacement of peoples of course, as we have always sensed, is to help ensure that the regions from which they are decamping become more stable and inviting. In other words that there is more motivation (economic, security, cultural, etc.) for them to stay than leave.

Naturally the true difficulty is in shaping this environment--sometimes it is well nigh impossible and at the very least crackling hard. As cynical/exploitative/advantageous as some of the West's policies have been since WW1 for example, I strongly believe that in the main that western citizenry does indeed wish for the balance of the world's nations to enter into the comity of trade, freedom, and self-determination. Vaporous language I know, but most of us very much wish for others to enjoy the entire range of aspirations/comforts/opportunities that we do.

I am not advocating that all areas of the world should, or even could, adopt the breadth and depth of our political heritage (see the missteps post GW2 as example #1), culture, and all that composes our life. In fact I am mulling over just exactly what I am advocating other than to say that we need to realize that only stability and safety will stanch the flow.

Overlaying this stability and safety in staggeringly nasty and dangerous countries is of course the Sisyphean task. Not sure how to do it but if something like it is not crafted then the problem will continue until Europe is faced with serious, and unfortunate, backlashes from all quarters--voters/economy/etc.

MG23 25th Aug 2015 17:43


Originally Posted by Uncle Fred (Post 9094716)
The answer to any mass displacement of peoples of course, as we have always sensed, is to help ensure that the regions from which they are decamping become more stable and inviting. In other words that there is more motivation (economic, security, cultural, etc.) for them to stay than leave.

We tried that. It was called The British Empire. Then we were told it was bad. So we stopped.

If anyone's going to colonize Africa in the 21st century and make it more stable, it's the Chinese.

vctenderness 25th Aug 2015 18:07

There are very few organisations in the world that I despise. The UN along with the EU are at the very top of the list.

It seems that 'The Media' go all gagga just at the mention of the UN.

I wouldn't trust them to walk my dog. They would either loose it, sell it or blame it for causing global warming when it has a c**p:}

Saltie 25th Aug 2015 18:41

The elephant in the room (with apologies to Africa for a most unfortunate analogy given the topic) that no one wants to address is the massive problem of overpopulation in the countries many of the uninvited 'migrants' into Europe are coming from.

I don't have the numbers immediately to hand, but the population of Ethiopia has near trebled since the days of Bob Geldorf's well-intentioned BandAid - because all that aid made it possible.

Much of the country was in famine then. Now there are three times as many people. People who would never have been born - or survived - but for that aid.

It is clearly unsustainable. Even the huggiest of buggy fluffs can see that. But how to fix the problem would invve measures that even the most unhuggy fluff among us would find distasteful. The Indian and Chinese attempts to address the problem could not be classed as successful, and they both pale into insignificance when compared with what would be necessary to implement anything in the disparate nations of Africa that had even a glimmer of a hope of success.

Saltie 25th Aug 2015 19:41

For more than a generation now, Caucasian Europeans have not been procreating at sufficient rates to sustain their societies. The Africans and Arabs flocking to Europe are not doing the same. So the proverbial Blind Freddie can clearly see that Europe as we know it today will be a very different entity in thirty or even less years than it is today.

It won't be just because the colour of the skin of the majority might be different, but more whether there will remain any hint of the cultures that made Europe so attractive to the people now flocking to it. I fear I know the answer to that, and I don't like that answer - and neither will many of those now climbing into rubber dinghies.

Sir George Cayley 25th Aug 2015 20:04

Several years ago, during unrest in the former mill town of Oldham in the County of Lancashire, a young Asian guy interviewed by a TV news reporter said in response to a question about the future of race relations "we'll win 'cos we're ******* our way to dominance".

I think he is probably right.

SGC

BigEndBob 25th Aug 2015 20:09

Europe and Britain are what they are because of the culture of it's inhabitants. Migrants in vast numbers will only bring their problems with them, destroying the very reason they came to Europe.

G-CPTN 25th Aug 2015 20:23


Migrants in vast numbers will only bring their problems with them, destroying the very reason they came to Europe.
Indeed.
The riverside in the village where I live became a popular place to visit, such that Bank Holiday weekends saw triple-parking (ie gridlock on the access road) with visitors striving to find the peace and tranquility* that they sought.

Fortunately, that ended when a carpark was opened on the opposite side of the river (previously there was nowhere to park on that side).
Now the carpark and the adjacent verges attract the masses and 'my' side remains relatively calm when the weather is warm.

*Spooling chucker suggests that there should be two 'ls' in tranquility/tranquillity. :confused:

MG23 25th Aug 2015 20:42


Originally Posted by Prophead (Post 9094913)
Probably what the Native Americans and Aborigines said.

They didn't have nukes.

As far as I can see, we're heading into a global civil war. It won't be pretty.


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:14.


Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.