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SASless 16th Oct 2017 22:30


The point I am making is that US foreign policy has been responsible for compromising the standard of living in many countries around the globe in order to secure resources, energy, and cheap labor, access to markets for the benefit of those stateside.

In a left handed way.....like European Colonialism?

Ancient Mariner 17th Oct 2017 20:47


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 9927279)
In a left handed way.....like European Colonialism?

European? Care to be more specific?
Per

Lonewolf_50 17th Oct 2017 20:49

Per, I suspect that SASless is referring to all of that which coincided with the Age of Sail, into the industrial age. Probably late 1400's to about the end of WW II. (But he may not be).

Gertrude the Wombat 17th Oct 2017 21:16


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 9928229)
Per, I suspect that SASless is referring to all of that which coincided with the Age of Sail, into the industrial age. Probably late 1400's to about the end of WW II. (But he may not be).

Also ascribed to the end of WW I:

"America was thus clearly Top Nation, and history came to a ."

The Sultan 17th Oct 2017 22:27

Golf over Duty
 
It took Cheeto 12:days to acknowledge the loss of four Green Berets in another botched operation under his watch (and he had to forced). One soldier was left behind for two days before his body was recovered. Hopefully he was killed in the initial battle and not abandoned to fight on alone. It is interesting that the white soldiers were not left behind, but that is expected under Trump.

During the 12 days Trump “played” (actually drove around making up scores) at least 4 rounds of golf, one of which as one or more bodies arrived at Dover. Additionally, in the presser Trump’s bumbling response to the question that elicited his response made it obvious he had not thought about it or sent condolences to the families.

Where is the outrage over this on Fox and the alt-right?

Gertrude the Wombat 17th Oct 2017 23:23


Originally Posted by The Sultan (Post 9928313)
During the 12 days Trump “played” (actually drove around making up scores) at least 4 rounds of golf, one of which as one or more bodies arrived at Dover. Additionally, in the presser Trump’s bumbling response to the question that elicited his response made it obvious he had not thought about it or sent condolences to the families.

Would anybody want condolences from Trump? - reminds me of those cards people used to carry saying "if I'm taken to hospital after a disaster I do not want to wake up and find Thatcher at my bedside".

SASless 18th Oct 2017 01:30

I have trouble keeping up with if the British think they are part of Europe or not....as over the Years they have flip flopped back and forth over the issue with several Wars, numerous Treaties, Conventions, Unions and the sort.....so my reference to European Colonialism may not apply throughout that period of time from the Mayflower voyage up to post WWII....but it might.

pattern_is_full 18th Oct 2017 03:50

Agree? Or disagree? Or "other?"


We are blessed, and we have been a blessing to humanity in turn. The international order we helped build from the ashes of world war, and that we defend to this day, has liberated more people from tyranny and poverty than ever before in history. This wondrous land has shared its treasures and ideals and shed the blood of its finest patriots to help make another, better world. And as we did so, we made our own civilization more just, freer, more accomplished and prosperous than the America that existed when I watched my father go off to war on December 7, 1941.

To fear the world we have organized and led for three-quarters of a century, to abandon the ideals we have advanced around the globe, to refuse the obligations of international leadership and our duty to remain “the last best hope of earth” for the sake of some half-baked, spurious nationalism cooked up by people who would rather find scapegoats than solve problems is as unpatriotic as an attachment to any other tired dogma of the past that Americans consigned to the ash heap of history.

We live in a land made of ideals, not blood and soil. We are the custodians of those ideals at home, and their champion abroad. We have done great good in the world. That leadership has had its costs, but we have become incomparably powerful and wealthy as we did. We have a moral obligation to continue in our just cause, and we would bring more than shame on ourselves if we don’t. We will not thrive in a world where our leadership and ideals are absent. We wouldn’t deserve to.

John S. McCain III, Oct. 16, 2017.


lomapaseo 18th Oct 2017 04:54


Agree? Or disagree? Or "other?"
seeing as this is a poll

I choose "other"

KelvinD 18th Oct 2017 07:56

I wonder if Senator McCain asked the Vietnamese what they thought about his thoughts on 'just causes', 'liberation from tyranny' etc.?
In fact, having read this piece a few times, I am tempted to say "what a load of codswallop". This zeal for liberating people from tyranny and poverty etc must be a new idea. It certainly didn't apply during either of the 2 World Wars. There was no zeal for doing any liberating in either case, until the other lot attacked US ships, merchant or naval. Any 'liberating' seems to have been consequences of those wars, rather an initial aim.
Sasless: The British have never fought wars to be a part of Europe, unless you want to look back to the likes of the Normans, Plantagenets etc. But then, were they wars by the British wanting to be part of Europe (a lot of fighting in France), or were they wars waged by British based French royalty, trying to get back their ancestral lands?

The Sultan 18th Oct 2017 09:06

Gert,

You called it. Cheeto’s belated phone call to one of the soldier’s was overheard and reported.


“Sarcastically he said: ‘But you know he must have known what he signed up for,’” Wilson recounted to NBC6. “How could you say that to a grieving widow? I couldn’t believe... and he said it more than once. I said this man has no feelings for anyone. This is a young woman with child who is grieved to her soul.”
At least he did not complain that the weight of their deaths has hurt his golf game.

chuks 18th Oct 2017 10:24

Life imitates art ....
 
What a delicate touch our Prez has when dealing with the bereaved. First he dragged the death of General Kelly's son into this no-class debate about why he's more focused on golf than on condolences, with a typical load of blather and lies about what Obama and other presidents had done before him, trying to make out that his own performance, while obviously lacking was still superior. Pretty impressive, that letters had been written by Trump but not sent, 12 days on from the deaths in combat of four American soldiers. They had to send some secretary out to buy a fresh roll of stamps? Anyway, don't blame Trump!

On the heels of that one Trump called the grieving, pregnant widow of one of the recently dead soldiers, on her way to the hand-over of her late husband's remains, to tell her that, well, her late husband had signed up for this sort of thing. Now it's true that Trump did not tell her that this is what you get for not choosing a rich father, or for not doing better in school, but it still came off as a bit crass, a bit lacking in compassion.

It made me think of Frank Drebin, just minus the laughs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gob9NlqF7A

Ancient Mariner 18th Oct 2017 11:12


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 9928418)
I have trouble keeping up with if the British think they are part of Europe or not....as over the Years they have flip flopped back and forth over the issue with several Wars, numerous Treaties, Conventions, Unions and the sort.....so my reference to European Colonialism may not apply throughout that period of time from the Mayflower voyage up to post WWII....but it might.

Part of Europe? I thought the map was pretty clear on that?
Europe is geography, not politics.
Oh, and I'm not British.;)
Per

SASless 18th Oct 2017 12:47

Hey......all this agro....and we find out this week we have been helping the Russians and and that horrible fellow Vlad.

Yet we get no credit for doing so.

But that is too common as can be noted.

Two European Wars get kicked off by you lot and we are the bad guys for coming to your rescue each time? I know some of you cling to the notion the Atlantic is exactly like the "English" channel although just a mite wider but really?

If the fuss ya'll had each time had left us alone....and we had left ya'll alone to go at it....ya'll would corresponding in German rather than English.

I know the Hanover Clan confused things for you but don't accuse us of stuff that ya'll have been doing to one another since the beginning of recorded history after all we are the new boys on the block.

Give us another couple hundred of Years before you consider us eligible for that kind of membership in the Club.


Meanwhile....back at the Ranch.....more fiddling in other's business by an American President and his minions.

Team Obama?s stunning cover-up of Russian crimes | New York Post

Lonewolf_50 18th Oct 2017 14:14

I think Senator McCain's commentary is about right. (Kelvin, that chip on your shoulder is not high fashion, and it doesn't wear well).


As to the Russians being up to various tricks, well, why wouldn't they be? It's part of the Great Game, 20th - 21st Century edition.
I'd say that our job (at least the diplomatic and security side) is to catch them at it, not cry about it.

KelvinD 18th Oct 2017 14:31

Lonewolf: No chip there at all. Just calling it as I see it. Don't you think there is a degree of hypocrisy in his speech? I would agree to most of the principles he is espousing but I think he is the wrong man and is using the wrong terms to express them. Take WW2 for example; Britain found itself declaring war, when we were in no real position to go to war, on matters of principle. While the US could have taken the same attitude toward the same tyranny, they chose not to. I am not saying that was right or wrong but having spurned the opportunity to go and do something about this tyranny, McCain's drum beating re the US riding to the world's rescue from tyranny are a bit hollow. And, as I said, ask the Vietnamese what they thought of their liberation from tyranny.

galaxy flyer 18th Oct 2017 16:16


Europe is geography, not politics
Could have fooled me.


GF

Gertrude the Wombat 18th Oct 2017 16:34


Originally Posted by KelvinD (Post 9928929)
While the US could have taken the same attitude toward the same tyranny, they chose not to.

The clever trick is to carry on selling to both sides until you know who's going to win, then join in on the winning side.

Ancient Mariner 18th Oct 2017 17:23


Originally Posted by galaxy flyer (Post 9929026)
Could have fooled me.


GF

Some are easily fooled.
Per

SASless 18th Oct 2017 18:32

KD,

Take a step back in Time and consider the strong Anti-War, pro-Neutrality, and political opposition to the United States ever getting into another World War.

Then, consider there was law, the Neutrality Act, that codified the essence of that very strong influence on FDR's actions leading up to the Japanese attack at Pearl Harbor.

We declared War on Japan....but not Germany or Italy as you recall.

Hitler declared War on us.


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