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-   -   US Politics Hamsterwheel v2.0 (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/559612-us-politics-hamsterwheel-v2-0-a.html)

SASless 1st Oct 2017 18:58

How’s France and the UK doing in helping their islands that got hit by Irma and Maria?

Anyone care to remember the Florida Keys which are linked by road and railway to the main land?

Hurricanes cause major damage and problems....remember?

Even Geraldo has blown the Bull Shit Whistle on the San Juan Mayor!

ethicalconundrum 1st Oct 2017 19:03

All Trump haters are going to find fault no matter what is done. Doesn't matter what any supporter says, the mind is closed to anything except huff-po fueled rant.

meh

https://nypost.com/2017/09/30/inept-...orruption-ceo/

Two's in 1st Oct 2017 19:19

At least today Trump was able to demonstrate his firm grasp of geopolitical maneuvering and the value of having a S of S who can negotiate with the most lunatic of power-crazed despots ...


7:30 AM - 1 Oct 2017
I told Rex Tillerson, our wonderful Secretary of State, that he is wasting his time trying to negotiate with Little Rocket Man...
...Looks like Tillerson might negotiating with the wrong lunatic

Turbine D 2nd Oct 2017 01:51

ethical,

All Trump haters are going to find fault no matter what is done. Doesn't matter what any supporter says, the mind is closed to anything except huff-po fueled rant.
Too bad CEO Jorge L. Rodriguez, with huge connections with the big pharm industries, didn't understand what was needed on the medical scene in Puerto Rico. It wasn't his engineers to help FEMA. What was and still is needed are medicines and medical supplies, the hospitals and care centers have next to none. Your source of news, being the NY Post, is reporting the Trump fake news line direct from the WH. My next door neighbor is a native of Puerto Rico and he talked with his father this morning by satellite phone who lives in San Juan. His father said one of the biggest problems is lack of medical supplies.

I am sure the Haitian regime in power at the time of the earthquake was more corrupt by far than the Puerto Rico government, yet we stepped forward to help in a timely way. Glad to see the USN hospital ship finally departed for Puerto Rico in the past couple of days, two weeks after the event, but hey, "We are doing a fantastic Job!," per Donald Trump...

Turbine D 2nd Oct 2017 02:11

Jet II,

In Puerto Rico and other U.S. territories, the nearly 140-year-old Posse Comitatus Act limits the role that active military personnel can play."
Yes, it sure did before this minor revision...


The John Warner National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2007 (H.R. 5122), which was signed into law on October 17, 2006:

Section 1076 is titled "Use of the Armed Forces in major public emergencies." It provided that:

The President may employ the armed forces to restore public order and enforce the laws of the United States when, as a result of a natural disaster, epidemic, or other serious public health emergency, terrorist attack or incident, or other condition... the President determines that... domestic violence has occurred to such an extent that the constituted authorities of the State or possession are incapable of maintaining public order... or [to] suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy if such... a condition... so hinders the execution of the laws... that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law... or opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
FYI, The original act was passed to end the occupation of the Confederate States by the Union (US Army) for the period of 10 years or more after the Civil War.

Jet II 2nd Oct 2017 02:29


Originally Posted by Turbine D (Post 9910589)
Jet II,


Yes, it sure did before this minor revision...



FYI, The original act was passed to end the occupation of the Confederate States by the Union (US Army) for the period of 10 years or more after the Civil War.

But has violence broken out to such an extent that the authorities are incapable of maintaining public order?

I haven't seen any reports of mass violence.

PukinDog 2nd Oct 2017 06:59


Originally Posted by PrivtPilotRadarTech (Post 9907392)
Why put words in Kaepernick's mouth? Just quote him: "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

He is not upset with the Constitution- he's upset that some people in authority in some places have systematically violated it. It's the truth, and he's peacefully bringing attention to that. Of course, the kind of scumbag that WANTS to see the constitution violated would disagree.

Your 2nd paragraph is merely an attempt to spin-doctor his quote, yet his use of the term "People of Color" is a dead giveaway because the term was designed to be associated with the idea that the U.S. is based on whites systematically oppressing any and all non-whites. The basis of the U.S. system, the legal framework on which is founded, is the Constitution and contradicts that idea. It contradicts what you've stated YOUR idea is.

Your statement is self-contradictory as well, or you don't understand what "Systematic" is. "SOME people in SOME places have systematically violated it"...if it were "systematic" everyone would be doing it everywhere, not only some people and in some places. Also, if it were systematic what they were doing wouldn't be considered a violation by that same system. The U.S. flag symbolizes U.S. system's values and ideals, you said it yourself.

It's because our system recognizes those things as violations and being at odds with our Constitutional values symbolized by the flag, is why your spin-doctoring and excuse you've supplied for him (and the other "Black Power"ing, raised-fist saluters), whitewashing his statement, falls flat on it's face.

Most people out there watching remember where this began; selective reporting/media-fueled racial divisiveness based on a myth that black males are singled-out for execution by white cops. Despite the furious attempts now to morph and re-package it into "showing signs of unity and brotherhood blah blah blah", very few are buying that happy horseshit. The entire thing began piggybacking on the Racial Victimhood media barrage going on at the time in an attempt to package and sell it as Systematic.

Looks like you bought right into it. For giving it any kind of credence, you're also trying to re-sell it.

That's why the fans are booing the B.S. Anyone can go out in a country of 300 million + people and find examples of inequality, racist attitudes, perceived slights because there will always be idiots and d-bags in any population, and protest. Protesters themselves don't deserve automatic credence either even if the media gives them a mouthpiece. Their ranks are filled with those who can find racist messages in Dr. Suess books or a box of Crayons. Cases of inequities and discrimination are taken on a case by case basis, and people are calling BS on the notion attempting to be conveyed (everyone who isn't claiming victim status must be a racist) and the presumptuousness that one doesn't care unless they join in with their protest.

They're booing because they know damn well these aren't the ideals and values symbolized by the flag and that showing respect for it is a sign of unity and agreement in what you yourself have stated it symbolizes. People respect those ideals even knowing they don't live in a perfect country where every day every person never loses sight of it in every human interaction.

I am curious though, when will the kneeling stop and people can show respect to the flag again in their view? When everyone wakes up and the media reports that in the entire USA the day before there was no inequity, discrimination, or perceived oppression? Will the Black Power saluters and Social Justice Warriors be okay with the American flag again?

Personally, I refuse to respect their display of disrespect for the flag and the ideals on which the country was founded, those things it represents. In my book, those doing it because they believe the flag represents racial oppression, Black Power-saluting are right there alongside your Nazis and Klukker-types (which you seem to think anyone flying a confederate flag is), and those joining in with the recent lame re-packaging are merely idiots that look the part, joining-in to try and mask the racist-views and accusations being conveyed by some of their teammates.

oicur12.again 2nd Oct 2017 08:20

I am curious Pukin Dog, are you black? Do you have any black friends? Have you discussed how they see racism in America as apposed to how you see it?

A good friend of mine is a doctor, a very high ranking surgeon. He is African American. He travels with an assistant, a young white guy.

Recently they were seated in the seats assigned by the airline in first class when the inflight came along to offer pre departure drinks. Oh said the inflight, i see you have switched seats. Would you like drink doctor?

Why do you think this occured? Do you think it was the first time?

KelvinD 2nd Oct 2017 09:00


How’s France and the UK doing in helping their islands that got hit by Irma and Maria?
Well enough to be able to have the Royal Navy rescue people from an upturned vessel off Puerto Rico.

Lonewolf_50 2nd Oct 2017 13:43


Originally Posted by Jet II (Post 9910076)
If you read further down the article in WaPo you would have seen this:

"In Haiti, the United States was able to deploy active military combat brigades, quickly install a military commander and militarize the airspace at the invitation of Haitian officials.

In Puerto Rico and other U.S. territories, the nearly 140-year-old Posse Comitatus Act limits the role that active military personnel can play."

Jet II, I am pretty sure that when the Governor calls for federal help, declares a state of emergency/disaster, some of those Posse Comitatus act provisions get waived. (I've got a folder somewhere in the attic on disaster relief that might have some notes in it on that interaction. Been 23 years since I took that course, memory foggy). Turbine D's link tells part of the story.

The other thing on federal aid: FEMA's been dealing with two other hurricanes already. I wonder if they are feeling a bit tapped out?


But has violence broken out to such an extent that the authorities are incapable of maintaining public order?
According to my LE friends, the break down in the ability to maintain public order typically occurs within 48 hours if you don't have fuel for your police cars. No fuel, no juice to move nor to run your radio. Command centers in major cities typically have a generator that allows line of sight radio comms, though if all towers are down things can get dicey depending upon terrain. That's from one of my LE drinking buddies whose been through a few hurricanes and has been working with his department to get funding for a fuel bunker. The city apparently won't fund it, so they are looking for a state or federal grant. (And doing that gets political real fast ....)

Puerto Rico is somewhat more than a large metropolitan area. It's a pretty big island with plenty of rough terrain.

Jet II 2nd Oct 2017 14:42


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 9911211)
Jet II, I am pretty sure that when the Governor calls for federal help, declares a state of emergency/disaster, some of those Posse Comitatus act provisions get waived. (I've got a folder somewhere in the attic on disaster relief that might have some notes in it on that interaction. Been 23 years since I took that course, memory foggy). Turbine D's link tells part of the story.

But surely that is the point. The Military, FEMA etc are all responding to the requirements of the existing Civil Administration who are still running the show. The argument that the Military should take over and run the relief effort like they did in Haiti is simply wrong as the Governor and Mayors are still in control.



The other thing on federal aid: FEMA's been dealing with two other hurricanes already. I wonder if they are feeling a bit tapped out?
Quite possibly, although I did see reports that they do have large quantities of food and water already delivered but are struggling to get them distributed due to most of the truck drivers not turning up for work. Perhaps the Mayor would be better off sorting that out rather than giving TV interviews?

The Sultan 2nd Oct 2017 14:51

I missed the London mayor's snarky Tweets attacking Trump for this terrorist attack in Vegas. Anybody have a copy?

KelvinD 2nd Oct 2017 15:18

The FEMA regional boss reported in a radio interview from 3 days ago that truck drivers were beginning to turn up for work. I don't think you can blame a guy for not turning up for work if your family are without shelter, food, clothing etc.

Lonewolf_50 2nd Oct 2017 15:51


But surely that is the point. The Military, FEMA etc are all responding to the requirements of the existing Civil Administration who are still running the show. The argument that the Military should take over and run the relief effort like they did in Haiti is simply wrong as the Governor and Mayors are still in control.
Fair point, and I agree. The assistance teams are to help the locals, as they did for Harvey and Irma.

Concours77 2nd Oct 2017 18:04

The grumbling from the mayor and other pols is pathetic. It wasn't Trump's hurricane, nor was it his "Katrina".

Puerto Rico is Hillary country, and the pathetic blather is opportunistic "resistance".

The Clintons skimmed tens of millions of dollars from the Red Cross in the Haiti relief effort, where is that outrage?

Concours77 2nd Oct 2017 18:09


Originally Posted by oicur12.again (Post 9910814)
I am curious Pukin Dog, are you black? Do you have any black friends? Have you discussed how they see racism in America as apposed to how you see it?

A good friend of mine is a doctor, a very high ranking surgeon. He is African American. He travels with an assistant, a young white guy.

Recently they were seated in the seats assigned by the airline in first class when the inflight came along to offer pre departure drinks. Oh said the inflight, i see you have switched seats. Would you like drink doctor?

Why do you think this occured? Do you think it was the first time?

Because Black Americans comprise only twenty per cent of the population?
Bad guess on inflight, but 'she' had an eighty percent chance of being correct?
Do you see what I did there?

SASless 2nd Oct 2017 19:17


Originally Posted by KelvinD (Post 9911327)
The FEMA regional boss reported in a radio interview from 3 days ago that truck drivers were beginning to turn up for work. I don't think you can blame a guy for not turning up for work if your family are without shelter, food, clothing etc.


Like all the government workers, EMS, Firefighters, Police, power company linemen....nurses, doctors, national Guardsmen.....that turned up.....is that what you mean?

Curious Pax 2nd Oct 2017 19:40


Originally Posted by Concours77 (Post 9911508)
Because Black Americans comprise only twenty per cent of the population?
Bad guess on inflight, but 'she' had an eighty percent chance of being correct?
Do you see what I did there?

You seem to be missing the point. Even if black Americans only comprised 2% of the population why would she assume that he shouldn't have been in first class? Unless the manifest showed the seat should be vacant (and it sounds like it was a properly assigned seat) then why on earth wouldn't she treat both guys equally?

That symbolises the problem that seems endemic in the US. A black guy gets shot, and the assumption is that he was up to no good; a black guy gets a senior job and the assumption is affirmative action not merit, etc etc. I'm sure sometimes the assumption is correct, but is it any wonder black Americans get peeved when they are getting that all the time?

Lonewolf_50 2nd Oct 2017 19:51

Curious Pax, you are reporting on a situation that was the status quo about 40 years ago. To assert that nothing has changed since then is to be wrong. To assert that everything has been sorted out would also allow one to be wrong. I note your use of absolutes and hyperbole:

A black guy gets shot, and the assumption is that he was up to no good; a black guy gets a senior job and the assumption is affirmative action not merit, etc etc. I'm sure sometimes the assumption is correct, but is it any wonder black Americans get peeved when they are getting that all the time?
Wrong by hyperbole is still wrong.
That sometimes this crap still crops up (and I am sure it won't end tomorrow) is both unfortunate, and a sign that people need to keep working on that.

I see that you fell for the troll's bait: oicur12.again. Some people make stuff up, and other people bite on it.

oicur12.again 3rd Oct 2017 05:16

Concourse

Im not really sure you fully understand how maths works!

Would you like to take another swing at it?


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