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747 jock 3rd Jun 2015 16:28


If you believe Americans fear our police or each other, you watch way too much American TV and other media.

ORANGE, Calif. - Chapman University has initiated the first comprehensive nationwide study on what strikes fear in Americans in the first of what is a planned annual study. According to the Chapman poll, the number one fear in America today is walking alone at night.
And number 4 on that list?
4) Being the victim of a mass/random shooting
What Americans fear most -- new poll from Chapman University | EurekAlert! Science News

BOING 3rd Jun 2015 17:18

The full Chapman survey results on fear in order.


1) Walking alone at night

2) Becoming the victim of identity theft

3) Safety on the internet

4) Being the victim of a mass/random shooting

5) Public speaking
So, the fear of being in a mass random shooting is slightly worse for the respondents than having to speak in public but their real fears are becoming the victims of identity theft or being unsafe on the internet.

Where did they find these morons, they must have walked as far as the university cafeteria.

.

Um... lifting... 3rd Jun 2015 18:08

Probably found them because they answered the phone.

Who answers the phone because they're lonely? Elderly people. Who watches TV talking heads all day who just try to scare the crap out of their audience? Elderly people. Who is too polite to hand up on an idiotic pollster? Elderly people.

1500 people surveyed in total.

There are over 3000 counties in the U.S. of A.

The mean population of a county (though it varies from a low of less than 100 to a high over over 10M) is a bit over 100,000.

So, they talked with one person in every other county who answered the phone and put up with their questioning.

I'm not sure that's statistically significant.

bcgallacher 3rd Jun 2015 18:18

Ken V - you appear to have an over optimistic view of your so called rights - your government has recently taken to killing your own citizens in Yemen for example by drone strikes,there are prisoners in Guantanamo who were kidnapped in other countries. Neither group appear to have been accorded what we would accept as their rights. Perhaps there is an amendment to your constitution that gives your government the ability to do this. Torturing prisoners - water boarding etc I would think comes under the category of cruel and unusual punishment. Going back a little further the Syphilis experiments carried out on black males would be a gross infringement of rights. As in just about all countries rights are applied in the USA selectively according to whatever suits the regime.

KenV 3rd Jun 2015 18:38


Ken V - you appear to have an over optimistic view of your so called rights - your government has recently taken to killing your own citizens in Yemen for example by drone strikes,there are prisoners in Guantanamo who were kidnapped in other countries. Perhaps there is an amendment to your constitution that gives your government the ability to do this.
Hilarious. Does the Constitution's jurisdiction extend to those places? Nope.

And that's why we have a constitution, to make it really hard for them to pull that kind of crap here. And why the American populace is armed, so our politicians will think more than twice before even considering that kind of crap at home. In point of fact our politicians so "fear" the populace (rather than the other way around, as you folks claim), that they've made it illegal to do electronic snooping that has been legal since shortly after 9/11.

Now, what prevents your politicians from doing that kind of stuff abroad AND at home? Nothing you say? And you actually insist that's a good thing? With a straight face?


Torturing prisoners - water boarding etc
Hilarious. I've been water boarded twice by my government. So have hundreds and likely thousands of other Americans. That was neither torture nor a constitutional violation. But please, do go on.

KenV 3rd Jun 2015 18:40


If you believe Americans fear our police or each other, you watch way too much American TV and other media.
Quote:
ORANGE, Calif. - Chapman University has initiated the first comprehensive nationwide study on what strikes fear in Americans in the first of what is a planned annual study. According to the Chapman poll, the number one fear in America today is walking alone at night.
And number 4 on that list?
4) Being the victim of a mass/random shooting
What Americans fear most -- new poll from Chapman University | EurekAlert! Science News
No doubt about it. You guys read (and hilariously believe!) WAAAAY too much American media.

FakePilot 3rd Jun 2015 19:02


No doubt about it. You guys read (and hilariously believe!) WAAAAY too much American media.
It seems like there is a need to believe this. And when other viewpoints and facts are presented (taking the edge off the topic) the topic is switched. There is only one re-occurring theme: USA is Bad.

Toadstool 3rd Jun 2015 19:11


No doubt about it. You guys read (and hilariously believe!) WAAAAY too much American media.
I know, I have tried to wean myself off Fox news but........

747 jock 3rd Jun 2015 21:41


Where did they find these morons, they must have walked as far as the university cafeteria.
So someone takes part in a survey and you disagree with what they say so they are morons?
At least we can see how your mind works Boing.


Probably found them because they answered the phone.

Who answers the phone because they're lonely? Elderly people. Who watches TV talking heads all day who just try to scare the crap out of their audience? Elderly people. Who is too polite to hand up on an idiotic pollster? Elderly people.
Wrong on all counts. There were e-mails sent out asking for volunteers to take part in the survey and it was conducted via the internet.
Regarding the age of those who took part, 64% were under 55 years old.

Knowledge Networks collects data using a probability-based panel designed to be statistically representative of the U.S. population. Households are selected randomly with a known probability of selection, allowing Knowledge Networks to provide a confidence interval for statistical estimates.
Knowledge Networks maintains its panel using the United States Postal Service's Delivery Sequence File, which allows the inclusion of households that are cell phone-only, which are often missed in standard sampling designs.

Selected households are invited to participate in Knowledge Networks's Web enabled panel. Those who agree to participate, but are not already on the Internet, are sent a laptop computer and receive an Internet service connection provided and paid for by Knowledge Networks. People who already have computers and Internet service are permitted to participate using their own equipment.



No doubt about it. You guys read (and hilariously believe!) WAAAAY too much American media.
So if it's wrong, disprove it then.
Someone posts a link which appears to go against what others have said and it's dismissed out of hand solely because it appeared in American media.
Brilliant debating technique there KenV.

Just out of curiosity, is it all American media that can't be believed or just the ones that you disagree with?

BOING 4th Jun 2015 00:37

747 Jock

Walking alone at night I can understand for a young lady more than for a young man. You would hope in this case that the "walking alone at night" is an imaginary fear or are we saying that these people place walking alone at night as their number one fear and still do it. There is rarely a need to walk alone at night so if it frightens you that much - don't do it. Problem solved.

The other four responses are more entertaining. A multiple choice question for you;
Which of the following four activities could find you dead, permanently physically or mentally damaged or put you in a situation where you would walk around your whole day in fear for your life?
a. Identity theft.
b. Being unsafe on the internet (probably because you did something stupid in a F'book Post).
c. Getting accidentally involved in a mass shooting.
d. Having to speak in public.

Yet apparently the average moron has less fear of death than identity theft or screwing up on the internet and only slightly more fear of death than public speaking. This is Darwin Award stuff not a serious survey.

Of course it turns out that this is not a news article at all it's an infomercial.

Disclaimer: AAAS and EurekAlert! are not responsible for the accuracy of news releases posted to EurekAlert! by contributing institutions or for the use of any information through the EurekAlert system.
.

KenV 4th Jun 2015 13:56


So if it's wrong, disprove it then.
I think many (including yourself AND the authors of the survey) have already done an effective job of totally debunking this "survey." (If it can even be called that.)


Someone posts a link which appears to go against what others have said and it's dismissed out of hand solely because it appeared in American media.
Brilliant debating technique there KenV.
"Debating technique?" Nope. "Dismissed out of hand?" "Solely?" Naaaah

The fact is I was not "debating". I was mocking. I was (and am) mocking foreigners' obsession with American media and their (utterly false) belief that they can grok American culture/society by obsessively reading that media.


Just out of curiosity, is it all American media that can't be believed or just the ones that you disagree with?
All? Nope. Most? Probably. Certainly the vast majority if American media has NOTHING to do with truth, facts, or reality, with a major subset devoted almost entirely to sensationalism. And the portion of the media available on the internet is especially rife with sensationalism. It is beyond hilarious to assume one can understand American culture/society by immersing oneself in American media.

Further, it is hysterically absurd and grossly arrogant to assume one can make sweeping conclusions about the entire American populace based on sensationalist American media, and then not only insist that the American system of government is all wrong, but demand it be changed to mirror your foreign system.

Hempy 4th Jun 2015 14:46

KenV. Please tell us all where you got your opinions of Iraq and Afghanistan..

KenV 4th Jun 2015 15:55


KenV. Please tell us all where you got your opinions of Iraq and Afghanistan
Do I have opinions regarding the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan? You betcha.

Do I pretend to understand the culture/societies of Iraq and Afghanistan? Emphatically NO!! Do I fantasize I understand the cultures/societies of Iraq and Afghanistan enough to tell them how to run their country? Emphatically NO!! Hell, I don't understand Brit culture/society and have no problem admitting it. And NO!, I certainly don't pretend I could ever possibly understand Brit culture by watching Dr Who, Downton Abby, or even every minute of programming on BBC America.

I've answered your question. Do you have the honesty to answer mine? Why do you pretend to understand American culture/society and why do you absurdly fantasize your understanding is authoritative enough to tell Americans how they should change their system of government? Hmmmmm?

747 jock 4th Jun 2015 17:45


I think many (including yourself AND the authors of the survey) have already done an effective job of totally debunking this "survey." (If it can even be called that.)
Really? I must have missed it because all I can find is people using false assumptions about how the survey was conducted (over the internet and not by phone as assumed), using false assumptions about the ages of the people who took part (spread out over all age groups and not mainly the elderly as assumed), and one person's reasoning for not accepting the results was simply that everyone who took part must have been a moron.
It doesn't really say much for Boing's opinion of his fellow countrymen if he thinks that 1500 people, all picked at random from all over the country can all be morons.

As for the survey itself.
I agree that 1500 people is only a tiny fraction of the population of the USA, but if these 1500 people are all picked totally at random and are spread equally over all ages and all other demographic groups, why do you think that it shouldn't be representative of the country as a whole?

BOING 4th Jun 2015 21:19

Yep, looks like a relevant series of questions to be asked by a religion based College.

30_3 [We will exhaust the earth’s supply of oil.] How afraid are you of having to evacuate your home in the next 25 years due to natural or manmade disaster?
Q30_4 [We will learn to transport objects instantly over large distances.]
How afraid are you of having to evacuate your home in the next 25 years due to natural or manmade disaster?
Q30_5 [The world will end as prophesied in the Bible.] How afraid are you of having to evacuate your home in the next 25 years due to natural or ma
nmade disaster?
Q31_1 [Today’s movies and TV shows encourage children to view homosexuality as normal and healthy.] How strongly to you agree or disagree with the following
statements?
Q31_2 [Children are more likely to become homosexual if they have openly gay teachers.]
How strongly to you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Q31_3 [Legalizing homosexual marriage undermines traditional marriage and the family]
How strongly to you agree or disagree with the following statements?
Q32_1 [school teachers?] Do you agree or disagree that openly gay people should be allowed to serve as
Q32_2 [youth sports coaches?] Do you agree or disagree that openly gay people should be allowed to serve as
Q32_3 [police?] Do you agree or disagree that openly gay people should be allowed to serve as
Q32_4 [politicians?] Do you agree or disagree that openly gay people should be allowed to serve as
Q32_5 [soldiers?] Do you agree or disagree that openly gay people should be allowed to serve as
Q32_6 [religious leaders?] Do you agree or disagree that openly gay people should be allowed to serve as
Q33_1 [Illegal immigrants are more likely to commit crime than U.S. citizens.] Please indicate your level of agreement with the following statements about immigrants

747 jock 4th Jun 2015 21:54


Yep, looks like a relevant series of questions to be asked by a religion based College.
If you are unwilling or unable to disprove the results of the survey why not just say so. There is no need to attempt to totally change the topic which was about how fearful Americans are of being shot.
What on earth do the questions relating to a responders religious beliefs and opinions have to do with this?

Why didn't you post the survey questions which asked how people feel about crime and how if affects them?

I agree that the questions you posted seem strange, but as they were asked to everyone (and remember, everyone was selected at random from all walks of life), the resulting scores wouldn't be unfairly biased one way or the other and as the questions still relate to people's fears and worries, what's wrong with asking. After all, people keep talking about the right of free speech in the USA so surely the survey writers have every right to ask those questions, just as the responders had every right not to answer them.

BOING 5th Jun 2015 02:24

747 Jock
I really don't care about the survey, along with others posters I am a little concerned that you and others seem to take everything you read from over here so seriously.

The "survey" is a self published article by that college to show how smart they are and to increase student recruiting. We are pretty used to this type of article and it even has a name "infomercial" meaning an article that provides some useful information but basically is an advertisement. But, having told you that I do not really care what you believe.

.

KenV 5th Jun 2015 11:56


If you are unwilling or unable to disprove the results of the survey why not just say so.
Ummm, with (undeserved) respect, the onus is on YOU to prove that a survey self described as an infomercial should be taken seriously, especially by a foreigner clueless about American culture/society.

BTW, if you're a foreigner who claims to understand American Culture, then "The Onion - America's Finest News Source" is mandatory reading. Enjoy.

The Onion - America's Finest News Source

KenV 5th Jun 2015 11:58

Hey Hempy,

A person who is engaged in an honest discussion not only asks questions, but answers them also. Care to begin?

747 jock 5th Jun 2015 12:43


Ummm, with (undeserved) respect, the onus is on YOU to prove that a survey self described as an infomercial should be taken seriously,
Does the survey refer to itself as an infomercial? If so, where exactly?

BOING 5th Jun 2015 14:09

This is info on the website that carried the article and the "Credit" assignment for the article.


What is EurekAlert!?

EurekAlert! is an online, global news service operated by AAAS, the science society. EurekAlert! provides a central place through which universities, medical centers, journals, government agencies, corporations and other organizations engaged in research can bring their news to the media. EurekAlert! also offers its news and resources to the public. EurekAlert! features news and resources focused on all areas of science, medicine and technology.

Credit
Chapman University

Usage Restrictions
None

Disclaimer: AAAS and EurekAlert! are not responsible for the accuracy of news releases posted to EurekAlert! by contributing institutions or for the use of any information through the EurekAlert system.
The self promoting nature of the article relative to the number of facts it actually contains indicates that this is an advertisement as much as a serious report. Let's face it, the US is certainly not lacking in major specialist survey organisations.

Here is the Gallup version of the same question.

GALLUP NEWS SERVICE

PRINCETON, NJ -- What scares Americans most? It isn't the dark, or thunder and lightning, or even flying on an airplane.

No, what really strikes fear in the hearts of many Americans are snakes. A recent Gallup poll that asked adults what they were afraid of reveals that more people -- 51% -- fear snakes than any other suggested possibility, including speaking in public in front of an audience (40%) and heights (36%). And while children are reputed to fear the dark, only 5% of surveyed adults do. Just 11% of adults fear thunder and lightning.

Hempy 5th Jun 2015 14:15

Hey KenV,

when you answer my question, I'll answer yours. Obfuscation and changing reference doesn't count. In case I wasn't clear, what are the sources of information that create your opinion on the actions in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Let me guess...CNN and Fox News?

747 jock 5th Jun 2015 14:24

I will ask again in nice simple terms. A question that only needs a yes or no answer.
Do the people that carried out the survey refer it as an infomercial? (ie, does the Chapman university themselves state this).
There is no point linking to statements made by third parties because this doesn't answer the question.

So far the people who don't like the results of this survey have:

1/. Made incorrect assumptions about how it was carried out.
2/ Made incorrect assumptions about the ages of those taking part,
3/ Stated that the company carrying out the survey have themselves called it an infomercial yet can't show any proof of this claim,
4/ Have pointed out questions that in no way relate to the fear of gun crime.

I will stop posting now as it's about as clear as it can be that yourself and KenV will post whatever you like even if it a blatant lie and simply refuse to post any factual information.

Have a nice day playing with all of your guns.

BOING 5th Jun 2015 15:32

747 Jock

OK, let's return to the subject that you distracted us from in your post at #2601.

Since you are convinced that the Chapman survey is completely credible what do you think about this quote?

Turning to the crime section of the Chapman Survey on American Fears, the team discovered findings that not only surprised them, but also those who work in fields pertaining to crime.

"What we found when we asked a series of questions pertaining to fears of various crimes is that a majority of Americans not only fear crimes such as, child abduction, gang violence, sexual assaults and others; but they also believe these crimes (and others) have increased over the past 20 years," said Dr. Edward Day who led this portion of the research and analysis. "When we looked at statistical data from police and FBI records, it showed crime has actually decreased in America in the past 20 years. Criminologists often get angry responses when we try to tell people the crime rate has gone down."
The "some people" in the last sentence includes some posters on this thread.

.

747 jock 5th Jun 2015 17:04

I wasn't going to post again but as you have asked me a direct question then I will answer it.

But before I do so, you stated that I distracted the thread in my post #2601 but this post was in direct response to an earlier comment which was

If you believe Americans fear our police or each other, you watch way too much American TV and other media,
so my post was very relevant.

Anyway, what do I think about your quote?

I fully agree that crime in the USA has dropped over the past few years (something that I would be foolish to disagree with seeing as there are many different statistics to show this), but what I know to be true doesn't have any bearing on what people in the USA think.
If for whatever reason the people there believe crime is still going up, then they will still be fearful of how that crime may affect them, hence the survey results.

There. I've answered your question, now will you have the courtesy to answer mine.
As stated by KenV, Do the people that carried out the survey refer it as an infomercial? (ie, does the Chapman university themselves state this) or is claim false? possibly to discredit the survey.

Hempy 5th Jun 2015 17:05


Originally Posted by BOING
The "some people" in the last sentence includes some posters on this thread.


Originally Posted by last sentence
Criminologists often get angry responses when we try to tell people the crime rate has gone down.

Generally, when you quote someone, if you use quotation marks i.e "some people", it should actually reflect what was really said. Making your own s:mad:t up doesn't really give you much credibility tbh. Unless you need grammar lessons, in which case it's ok.

BOING 5th Jun 2015 18:34

747 Jock

Direct answer.

Chapman College does not state the article was an "infomercial", I said I thought it was such but I never claimed that the college referred to it in this manner. I still believe that the article was intended to provide exposure for the college as much as to provide value to the reader.

Here is one published definition of infomercial.

a long commercial that informs or instructs, especially in an original and entertaining manner:
I am very familiar with the genre as it appears regularly in several of my areas of interest. Of course, the people involved with these productions do not inform the reader of their intent as this would defeat its purpose. Two of the hints that an article is an infomercial are that the article is self-published and that the place of publication disclaims responsibility for the articles published.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a well conceived infomercial as long as it is not deliberately misleading or untrue, the old caveat "buyer beware" still applies. The problems occurs when a sensationalist slant is given to the presentation in order to catch attention.

.

747 jock 5th Jun 2015 18:49

I realise that you didn't state it BOING (and I didn't mean to imply that you did). It was KenV who made this comment (and whom seems very reluctant to return to back it up).

KenV

a survey self described as an infomercial

BOING 5th Jun 2015 18:57

Hempy


Criminologists often get angry responses when we try to tell people the crime rate has gone down.
The quoted sentence refers to "people" but I was not referring directly to these people, I was referring to my own subset of "some people" who are a group that exists in this thread.

I applied what is known as an "Emphatic" use of quotation marks - you see there I did it again - it is generally considered to be bad style but the internet alternatives, using italic or changed text formats are less effective.

Now can we get back to the subject?

.

747 jock 5th Jun 2015 19:01

I must admit that apart from one instance, I've never felt threatened whilst in the USA (and I've been there about 25 times to many different parts).

The one time I refer to, I was driving from Orlando to DC and I got off the interstate a little too early.
I ended up in a part of Washington where being a lone white man in a big hire car I was just a bit conspicuous. I didn't stop to ask directions, just followed my nose and found my back onto the freeway.

KenV 5th Jun 2015 19:31


In case I wasn't clear, what are the sources of information that create your opinion on the actions in Iraq and Afghanistan?
If "the actions" you refer to are the military operations that took place in Iraq during the first gulf war, then my answer is my source of information was the military intelligence my carrier and my squadron received to plan and execute the strikes we undertook.

If you are referring to the military actions that took place in Afghanistan and Iraq during the second gulf war my answer is military intelligence as well as various news outlets that showed various operations in near real time.

If you are referring to the military operations happening in Afghanistan and Iraq now, my information has primarily come from former squadron and wing friends still in the military, and from various military/professional publications I subscribe to.

As for Fox and CNN, I neither trust nor rely on either.

Did this answer your question?

BOING 5th Jun 2015 20:37

747 Jock

As you discovered, in most medium to large US cities there are areas where the locals will not go at certain times as doing so is considered to be asking for trouble. These areas are known for crime and violence so that if a shooting takes place there the general attitude is of no surprise whatsoever.

This may seen callous but you have to appreciate the reality of the situation. My State is 4000 sq miles bigger than England, Scotland and Wales joined together and I would guess it is only a medium sized one. Hearing of a shooting in the local crime district is not a reason to get excited, hearing of a shooting on the other side of the State or even of a mass shooting 2000 miles away is considered as tragic but not exactly local news and not exactly of personal concern.

Despite the apparent belief in Europe most Americans are never personally effected by gun crimes so most people have difficulty understanding why Europe gets so upset on our behalf.

.

BOING 5th Jun 2015 20:42

Hi Ken,
Always enjoyed working with the Navy, good sticks and way up in World affairs compared to the AF.

.

KenV 8th Jun 2015 12:20

Hey Hempy,

I've now answered your question twice. You've continued to ignore mine. As a reminder, a person engaged in an honest discussion answers as well as asks questions.

KenV 9th Jun 2015 14:39


Hempy: Hey KenV, when you answer my question, I'll answer yours.
I've now answered twice and I'm still waiting.........

KenV 10th Jun 2015 12:33

Hempy, apparently you have decided to confirm that you are neither engaged nor interested in honest discussion. As an aside, folks engaged in dishonest discussion are generally identified as trolls. I'll leave it at that.

KenV 10th Jun 2015 12:36


Hi Ken,
Always enjoyed working with the Navy, good sticks and way up in World affairs compared to the AF.
Thanks for the compliment. The Navy has a loonnng history and tradition of keeping up on world affairs. The US Army much less so, and USAF sprang from the Army.

Toadstool 18th Jun 2015 06:42

US church shooting: Nine killed in Charleston 'hate crime' - BBC News

They are calling this a hate crime now, not that it matters to the victims, which include a Senator.

ricardian 28th Jul 2015 09:04

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net...69&oe=564E218A

Toadstool 6th Aug 2015 14:34

Elijah Walker death: 11 year-old boy charged with manslaughter after shooting three-year-old - Americas - World - The Independent

Is there too much of this, or will the usual suspects just point to it being a demographic?


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