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-   -   A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/549775-usa-gun-thread-wont-controversial-will.html)

Lord Spandex Masher 22nd Oct 2014 19:44

Originally Posted by BenThere (Post 8709153)

A poet. Didn't need no stinking guns either.

BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 19:51

Good point, LSM. Neither did Gandhi. Or Jesus. The power of apparent truth, when perceived and embraced by the masses, is almost irresistible. That's the greatest fear of tyrants.

Lonewolf_50 22nd Oct 2014 19:55

Originally Posted by Lord Spandex Masher (Post 8709185)
A poet. Didn't need no stinking guns either.

If you don't want one, don't get one.

con-pilot 22nd Oct 2014 19:59

If you don't want one, don't get one.
No sense trying logic with this one, he doesn't know the front of the bus to the back. :p

Oh, ran out of popcorn. :{

Lord Spandex Masher 22nd Oct 2014 20:02

Was she sitting in the front then?

LW50, are you talking about me or Havel?

con-pilot 22nd Oct 2014 20:08

Hey, running out of popcorn is real serious you know. :suspect:

goudie 22nd Oct 2014 20:11

OK guys, time out while Con goes out to buy popcorn.

Krystal n chips 22nd Oct 2014 20:18

I'm prepared to listen to your words on many things, when you know your stuff, but not when you talk from a position of total ignorance

That's terribly kind of you. Unfortunately, I am not totally ignorant as to what I saw and experienced, both in the 70's and afterwards in Germany.

Neither have I ever perceived the former East Germany as some form of utopia.

Your comments about the food however, and the fact you managed to find some French bases, is quite telling.

Never one to look a gift horse in the mouth as it were, as HM Gov't kindly sent me on two tours and on both of them, I travelled as much as I could.

Doing so offers a diverse range of experiences, places and people.

It's a shame you didn't avail yourself of the same opportunity but there again, you are a paid up member of "Little England".

For shoddy products, the TV Tower in Berlin and the lift speed takes some beating.

John Hill 22nd Oct 2014 20:18

Ben There

I never claimed President Reagan did it himself. It was a joint effort that included the brave Eastern Europeans, dating from the Hungarians of 1956, who continued their resistance until victory was in their grasp. Maggie Thatcher was key as well.
Ha ha, is there any way you can weave Winston Churchill in your story too?:p

BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 20:34

Easily. I think it was Churchill who coined the phrase 'Iron Curtain' at Fulton College, an obscure liberal arts school in Missouri.

Fighting Communism after WWII was arguably as large a task as WWII, itself. Like WWII it was global, comprehensive, and had many heroes. The devastation of Socialism was vanquished, but we fight it yet, today.

I sense you have a problem with that, JH.

421dog 22nd Oct 2014 21:11

Actually, it was at Westminster college, an obscure liberal arts school in Fulton, Missouri.

Heck, I can't spell European capital cities or Scandihoovian stoves, but, by God, I lived 15 miles from KFTT...

BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 21:19

Thanks for the correction. I shouldn't post off the top of my head without doing the easily done google. I was close, though, eh?

PTT 22nd Oct 2014 21:43

Originally Posted by BenThere (Post 8709153)
Eastern Europeans also had no hope on paper of standing up to their totalitarian governments and the Soviet Union in the late 1980s. Yet Walesa and the Pope, Havel, and others prevailed, didn't they?

Yes, they did. And without guns.

Good luck in your struggle though :ok:

BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 21:46

Guns (force) was involved. Don't delude yourself.

galaxy flyer 22nd Oct 2014 22:22

Let's look at a couple of popular uprisings where the US Mil was beaten. There's Vietnam and all the ancillary battlefields; there's Iraq, there soon will be Afghanistan. We sorta won in Central America. The North very nearly got beaten by the South. Of course, there's the argument we won them on the battlefield and the politicians lost the war, but winning the battle is irrelevant.

No doubt, a large uprising in the US could be a modern sequel to the Revolution. The pols would give it up.


BenThere 22nd Oct 2014 22:33

I would take issue and assert that the VietNam war was not lost. Communist expansion was challenged, and while VietNam was lost initially, Capitalism eventually prevailed and the Communist attempt to subjugate VietNam was ultimately defeated.

Today, Russia and China do not subvert democracies and in fact, they are voraciously capitalist. Russia, with its energy and China with its manufacturing are capitalist in the extreme, much more so than the US ever was.

They operate today unburdened by any sense of responsibilty for world order, freedom of the seas, et al., and make no contributions like GPS, internet or interference with genocide.

Richo77 22nd Oct 2014 22:40

"Vietnam war was not lost" That's a good one and the CIA was there for the sport and not the Heroin right?

perthsaint 22nd Oct 2014 22:43

Russia does not subvert democracies? Really?

galaxy flyer 22nd Oct 2014 23:20


So, were the Aussies!


John Hill 22nd Oct 2014 23:42

Ben There, Churchill was a great friend to the USSR giving them jet engine technology and likely other post war assistance.

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