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-   -   A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/549775-usa-gun-thread-wont-controversial-will.html)

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 12:11

WC:

Nah, my blood pressure is fine. I just get tired of certain people insinuating on what we as Americans should do. I thought we settled all that a couple of hundred odd years ago when they were shown the exit door. Obviously the exit door didn't slam 'em in the ass hard enough.

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 12:20


Originally Posted by rgbrock1 (Post 8720777)
I just get tired of certain people insinuating on what we as Americans should do.


In the politest possible terms at the ripe old age of almost 57 I have yet to meet a person who knew everything about everything or did not benefit from a bit of well intentioned advice now and again.


Probably the other main and very relevant point worth mentioning is that it's not just Non Americans who think the current gun laws are not fit for purpose.


I seem to recall from a previous thread that about 50% of US homes are gun free, if that's the case at what point do you think there will be a sufficient majority of folks in favour of reform.......

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 12:29

sffp wrote:


I seem to recall from a previous thread that about 50% of US homes are gun free, if that's the case at what point do you think there will be a sufficient majority of folks in favour of reform.......
Doesn't matter if more than 50% think otherwise: this is a Republic, not a Democracy. Big difference.

West Coast 30th Oct 2014 12:31


In the politest possible terms at the ripe old age of almost 57 I have yet to meet a person who knew everything about everything or did not benefit from a bit of well intentioned advice now and again.
While I agree, advice from a parent, a spouse, a close mate, even from the boss is just that, advice. On an anonymous BB it's scoring points. It's living vicariously through an Internet alter ego, its not advice.

My household has been at times without a firearm, yet I remained firmly in the pro gun camp. I don't think there's the nexus between not owning a weapon and being anti gun that you might believe.

MagnusP 30th Oct 2014 12:31

UK gun laws are not fit for purpose.

I want my guns back.

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 12:34

It's already been shown that things can be changed, think Prohibition, Slavery, Civil Rights.


Do you not think a time will naturally come when the opinion of the majority takes precedence?

Hempy 30th Oct 2014 12:37


Originally Posted by con-pilot
So John, guess then that you'd have no problem if Socialism and any form of it was banned in New Zealand?

That cannot happen in the United States due to that document you mock.

No, it was only Communism the US banned..

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 12:43


Originally Posted by West Coast (Post 8720804)
While I agree, advice from a parent, a spouse, a close mate, even from the boss is just that, advice. On an anonymous BB it's scoring points. It's living vicariously through an Internet alter ego, its not advice. In your opinion possibly but not in mine :ok:

My household has been at times without a firearm, yet I remained firmly in the pro gun camp. I don't think there's the nexus between not owning a weapon and being anti gun that you might believe.


I have never owned a firearm and never wanted to own a firearm BUT I am also not and never have been anti gun.


My point in this and every other thread has always been consistent, in the US there must be a better way for legally held firearms to be owned.


Bit like a car, anyone can buy one but you cant use it for its intended purpose without proper training and testing.


No need to ban guns, just make folk who want them smarter :ok:

West Coast 30th Oct 2014 12:52

In principle, I agree. It however won't stop the bulk of gun deaths as the gangbanger from Compton or Chicago has other plans.

PTT 30th Oct 2014 13:01


Originally Posted by West Coast (Post 8720831)
In principle, I agree. It however won't stop the bulk of gun deaths as the gangbanger from Compton or Chicago has other plans.

"Some" is surely a good thing, though, especially when those "some" are basically, going by your comment, the good people.

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 13:03


Originally Posted by West Coast (Post 8720831)
In principle, I agree. It however won't stop the bulk of gun deaths as the gangbanger from Compton or Chicago has other plans.


As I suggested earlier, forget the gangbangers that is another debate for another day and without wishing to offend, because it makes for easy deflection its where these debates always end up........


The link I posted earlier with the Baseball guy shooting a finger off, that is where the debate should centre itself. How do you stop that and the countless thousands of other accidental shootings each year.


Then consider the thorny subject of how to stop future 'Adam Lanza's' not only getting weapons but also the skill sets required to operate them.

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 13:04


The link I posted earlier with the Baseball guy shooting a finger off, that is where the debate should centre itself. How do you stop that and the countless thousands of other accidental shootings each year.
And if he had chopped his finger off with a knife, should knifes be banned?

PTT 30th Oct 2014 13:07

No, he should be trained better in their use.

Where's this idea that we all want to ban your guns coming from? It's not an either/or situation.

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 13:28


Originally Posted by rgbrock1 (Post 8720847)
And if he had chopped his finger off with a knife, should knifes be banned?

Did I even suggest a ban?

BenThere 30th Oct 2014 13:29


Do you not think a time will naturally come when the opinion of the majority takes precedence?
It would take 38 states to amend the Constitution, which would require a supermajority.

The larger risk is in the balance of the Supreme Court. Even though its remit is to interpret the Constitution, the ideological balance is critical.

So far, even when controlled by the left, the court has held in favor of the original intent and traditional reading of the 2nd amendment. I'm not sanguine about future possibilities, though.

The 2nd amendment has been under relentless attack for decades. Perhaps that's why we defenders of it sometimes express ourselves in the strongest of terms.

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 13:32

BenThere wrote:


Perhaps that's why we defenders of it sometimes express ourselves in the strongest of terms.
And why we need organizations like the NRA. More now than ever.

ExXB 30th Oct 2014 13:55

That's like saying as a consumer of air services you need IATA. IATA is a trade association of airlines.

The NRA is the trade association of gun manufactureres and sellers. Don't, for a minute, think they have you best interests at heart.

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 13:57

As a card-carrying member of the NRA I can assure you the organization is much more than a trade association of gun manufactures and sellers. Much, much more than that.

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 14:22


Originally Posted by BenThere (Post 8720870)

The 2nd amendment has been under relentless attack for decades. Perhaps that's why we defenders of it sometimes express ourselves in the strongest of terms.

Again no insult intended but to me the blindingly obvious questions you should be asking is Why is the 2nd under such relentless attack and What could you do to reduce those attacks?

As a hypothetical example if Mrs Lanza did not have access to guns would her son have gone on to develop the expertise required to then do as he did.

And if that atrocity does not happen does the subsequent attack on assault weapon ownership happen?

Cause and effect.....

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:31

http://freedomthirst.com/wp-content/...edomthirst.jpg

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:33

http://i0.wp.com/www.ambrosekane.com.../America-5.jpg

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:36

https://gunowners.files.wordpress.co.../09/gandhi.jpg

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:38

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/gun-control.jpg

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:39

And finally: Free Men don't ask permission to bear arms.

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/003..._2_xlarge.jpeg

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:41

http://thefederalistpapers.integrate...88510100_n.jpg

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:43

http://www.freerepublic.com/images/d...nfiscation.jpg

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:50

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/gwdebunkUSE.jpg

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 14:58

http://2012patriot.files.wordpress.c...washington.jpg

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 15:36

http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/9...%2Fthumb-1.jpg

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 15:38

http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/c...%2Fthumb-2.jpg

421dog 30th Oct 2014 15:41

Liberty is pre-eminent.

Should we allow the government to limit the purview of free men in the interest of "security", we are doomed to the loss of both to the advantage of our protectors.

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 15:44

421dog:

Amen. :ok:

Seldomfitforpurpose 30th Oct 2014 16:00

http://www.usnews.com/dims4/USNEWS/3...7fa0a%2F856-71

ExXB 30th Oct 2014 16:09

rgbrock,

Sorry I haven't had an opportunity to read every post on these 30+ pages.

Could you please point me to one that suggests that your guns be taken away?

Your opposing camp appears to be advocating better training, licensing and registration - just like cars.

Are you afraid you will fail the tests?

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 16:11

There are no firearms tests I would be afraid of failing: absolutely none.

And I am all for better licensing, registering and training in the use of all firearms. On a State level. Not on a Federal level. There's where I have a problem.

421dog 30th Oct 2014 16:24

In the words of chairman Mao: "Political power emanates from the barrel of a gun".

Even in Iraq, at the peak of the unpleasantness involving the US, there was an exemption for one fully automatic AK for each household's defense.

Our founders too, knew such basic rights were needed to assert common decency 230 years ago, and attempted, via the constitution, to inure us against future incursions into our liberties.

I do not advocate for anything beyond that which was bequeathed to us by our fathers.

galaxy flyer 30th Oct 2014 16:55

Would someone point out exactly how better training, licensing would actually, you know, reduce murder and mayhem using firearms? The Newtown killer's mother spent copious money and time training him; they were all licensed and legal according to the state's laws.

The problem isn't fixable by laws; it's only fixable by people being more responsible and the consequences of misuse being understood. I grew up around guns; was taught well and responsibility was demanded by both parents.

GF

Bob Lenahan 30th Oct 2014 17:04

They outlawed guns in Mexico. Results? As to be expected:
Police routinely pull over cars, most all of them normal, working, citizens. After the harassment- no guns.
Very few innocent, working people have a gun. But, all the crimminals do. Muder rate, robbery rate, kidnapping, extremely high.
A few innocent, hard working people own a gun. Result: there are a few less crimminals.

con-pilot 30th Oct 2014 17:04

Hempy


No, it was only Communism the US banned..
Oh, really nice try, but as many others here, you fail.

Yes, there was a short period when the Communist Party was banned, but guess what, that same document that many are dismissing as antiquated, protects all political parties.

Therefore the Supreme Court ruled that in was un-Constitutional to ban any party, including the Communist Party.

There is a Communist Party in the US, there is an American Nazi Party in the US and as far as I know there is an Upside-down Pineapple Cake Party in the US.




John I'll answer you in a few minutes.

rgbrock1 30th Oct 2014 17:06

gf:

Better training in the use of firearms for the law-abiding is never a bad thing.

Adam Lanza was waiting to happen. Had his dastardly deed not been performed using firearms he would have found something else to use instead.

As for licensing. I think more needs to be done - not sure how though - to ensure those like Adam Lanza, or his mother, are not able to wreak such havoc.


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