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-   -   A USA gun thread. That won't be controversial, will it? (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/549775-usa-gun-thread-wont-controversial-will.html)

con-pilot 29th Oct 2014 22:15


Mr Anally Retentive

Boy, talking about the pot and kettle analogy, doesn’t get any better than that. :p

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 22:19

Ball, not player, LSM

Not fun when the home front is exposed as not quite utopian, is it?

Takes away from the view from on high horse, no doubt.

Pity about that >1%, eh SFFP?

But for the greater good and all that.

What about when you are in the >1% for some other 'greater good?'

So willing, so reasonable, when someone else is content to throw you under the government's bus?

It's only 'one little thing.'

Lord Spandex Masher 29th Oct 2014 22:21

Sorry Brick, did you just tell me what to do? := Did you think I was unaware of two police officers being shot?

My comment was meant with levity and is descriptive.

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 22:24

Did I tell you what to do?

No.

Did I remind you of the rules?

Yes.

You seem to like rules regarding other things so surely adhering to them here is a pleasure for you.

Otherwise, that dreaded hypocrisy thing starts to creep in.

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 22:25


Originally Posted by brickhistory (Post 8719895)

Pity about that >1%, eh SFFP?

But for the greater good and all that.

What about when you are in the >1% for some other 'greater good?'

So willing, so reasonable, when someone else is content to throw you under the government's bus?

It's only 'one little thing.'


Did you have any thoughts on Motoring rules and regulations?

Lord Spandex Masher 29th Oct 2014 22:26

World police huh? What's it to you if I follow the rules or not?

bcgallacher 29th Oct 2014 22:28

SFP - for many years my UK home has been in Fife,about 45 minutes from Dunblane.There was no opposition to the handgun control laws that I can recall. Like me you have probably had neighbours in your area who would have scared you shitless if you thought they owned a firearm! There is no limit to human stupidity. It is impossible to completely control illegal firearms but I think the laws must be working as most gun crime in the UK appears to be carried out with converted blank firing pistols and replicas. A recent gun murder in Edinburgh was committed using a converted UZI replica. Both victim and the group who killed him were Somalis - a drug deal that went wrong. The victim was the son of the Imam in Edinburgh's biggest mosque.It is a sad fact that most gunshot victims and perpetrators are from what the PC brigade would call 'Ethnic minorities' Not including Chinese,Indians etc who seem to be able to get along and prosper without shooting each other. They should not all be tarred with the same brush, I have a vested interest as my wife is an 'Ethnic minority 'and my kids are a mixture of Scots,Irish,Filipino and Chinese.

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 22:28


Did you have any thoughts on Motoring rules and regulations?

Is there a thread on that?

Is transportation, 18th century or otherwise, discussed in the U.S. Constitution?

Perhaps under the "Commerce clause," but for your point, it would seem a stretch.

For my point, however, forcing ">1%" to give up an inherent right, under the U.S. Constitution, is the starting gun (pun intended) for other "1%" to give up something else.

Lather, rinse, repeat, until my government controls everything.

I do not wish that to occur.

Thus fighting for things you may not agree with to ensure the retention of things you do like is worthwhile.

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 22:36


Originally Posted by brickhistory (Post 8719914)
For my point, however, forcing ">1%" to give up an inherent right, under the U.S. Constitution, is the starting gun (pun intended) for other "1%" to give up something else.



Do you obey the DUI rules? What about speed limits? Those rules are in place because a small minority of people are too stupid 'work that out' by themselves.


Using your logic we should do away with those DUI and Speeding rules...................but that would be a bit sill don't you think?

bcgallacher 29th Oct 2014 22:39

Mr Chips I re read my post and nowhere do I state that no child has ever been accidentally shot in the UK. No traffic stop to my knowledge has resulted in the death of the officer concerned,if you wish to be absolutely precise about the deaths of the police officers instead of the term several I will change it to a couple. What exactly were you trying to prove? I do note that you have no complaint regarding school and workplace shootings

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 22:45


Using your logic we should do away with those DUI and Speeding rules...................

Strawman argument that has been made many, many times here and within the U.S.' own anti-gun attempts.

The Constitution of the United States of America with the Bill of Rights is not subject to federal restriction.

Automotive rules are subject to the will of each of the 50 states.

Since there is nothing in the Constitution either originally or as amended regarding transportation, laws from various legislatures are perfectly legitimate with me.

Regulating, licensing, or any other form of state (in the larger sense, not each of the 50) control regarding firearms is not on par with automobile use.

The concept of American citizens to posess firearms, if they so chose, was important enough to come second, right after the Freedom of Speech, Association, and Religion.

Giving up ">1%" is not an option for any one to take.

If they try, I will resist them to best of my ability and resources.

And hundreds of other Americans will as well which is why the Second Amendment has not been changed via the only valid process available, namely amending the Constitution.

I can lose my driver's privileges should I not follow the prescribed rules as set by the state

I do not lose my inherent right to free speech, possessing a firearm, or any other right unless I take action to negate those rights since the state can't restrict those rights simply because it wants to.

Misusing a firearm in the commission of a crime and being convicted is one such example where my actions caused me to lose my Second Amendment right.

No government can simply take it because it deems it necessary and it's ">1%" (>1% figure used to make my point, not accuracy in American gun ownership)

Mr Chips 29th Oct 2014 22:47

BCGallacher just because you don't state something doesn't mean you aren't inferring it. The fact that I could find examples within 2014 shows that you had done no research into what you were saying and were just making it up as you went along.

I would suggest that Police officers do worry about who they are stopping, and some parents would have every reason to worry about gun deaths.

You really should try to check what you write instead of hoping that you won't get called out on it...


No traffic stop to my knowledge has resulted in the death of the officer concerned

Police name killed officer
Detectives have named the police officer shot dead during a routine check of a stolen vehicle.


Read more: Police name killed officer | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Not sure how you didn't know about this one, I could recall it, even down to the fact it was boxing day.

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 22:50

Mr. Chips, you simply must stop.

You are in an American gun thread where those who know best are trying their best to get through to us savage 'Muricans about how if we'd only follow their example, we'd be so much better off.

Finding examples that counter the 'sorted via banning' mantra simply do not help the cause.

The high horse will have to be dismounted in that case and that simply will not do.

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 22:52


Originally Posted by brickhistory (Post 8719938)
I can lose my driver's privileges should I not follow the prescribed rules as set by the state


To earn those driver privileges did you undergo any form of training and mandatory testing?


Simply driving on the roads subjects you to regular and completely random examination, do you have any issues with that?

Lord Spandex Masher 29th Oct 2014 22:53


Originally Posted by brickhistory (Post 8719945)

The high horse will have to be dismounted in that case and that simply will not do.

Nothing has been disproved by posting a couple of news reports. Nothing to crow about really.

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 22:55


Originally Posted by Mr Chips (Post 8719942)
BCGallacher just because you don't state something doesn't mean you aren't inferring it. The fact that I could find examples within 2014 shows that you had done no research into what you were saying and were just making it up as you went along.

I would suggest that Police officers do worry about who they are stopping, and some parents would have every reason to worry about gun deaths.

You really should try to check what you write instead of hoping that you won't get called out on it...



Not sure how you didn't know about this one, I could recall it, even down to the fact it was boxing day.


Perhaps that was why he spoke as he did, he may well have missed it.

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 22:55

Give it up, SFFP, that dog won't hunt.

Oh, sorry, even fox hunting has been banned.

Another >1% activity given up for the greater good...

Lord Spandex Masher 29th Oct 2014 22:57


Originally Posted by brickhistory (Post 8719954)
Give it up, SFFP, .

Oops, that sounds like an order. The mask is slipping isn't it.

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 22:58

The tough questions are always the ones that get avoided, he generally swerves when asked such things :p

Lonewolf_50 29th Oct 2014 23:00

KBPsen:
I am free to choose to own one, or not.

You seem to miss the difference in meaning between security and freedom.
See Ben Franklin's oft quoted commentary there, and see if it applies to you.

I can't help but think that you go to bed slightly disappointed every night.
That makes you both wrong and stupid.

Mr Chips 29th Oct 2014 23:00

SFFP, to be honest my posts this time aren't about guns per se, but you must surely agree that making glib comments when you can be disproved so easily is not really very smart?

bcgallacher 29th Oct 2014 23:03

Brick history - I believe that in the US you have laws that make bestiality and paedophilia illegal. I have been informed that these laws are not always observed in some southern states. These laws were enacted for the greater good of the community but I would think that they pissed off a percentage of the community - just like our handgun ban and just like our handgun ban I see no enthusiasm for a change in the law. Just like guns these activities gave a lot of pleasure to some people but were frowned upon by the majority - even you I think would support keeping these laws. The aforementioned activities were less dangerous than guns but they were unacceptable to society. It is called democracy when minority interests can be subjugated to the wishes of the majority - anything else leads to dictatorships or anarchy. Neither you or I can do anything we like,we are subject to the laws imposed on us whether we like them or not. What we can do though is try to change the laws that we do not like,what is acceptable to society changes over the years. We no longer have corporal punishment in schools, We have gay marriages ,the age of consent was lowered to 16 - all brought about by minority groups that had laws changed when it was acceptable to present society.

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 23:04

I stand corrected.

Please, SFFP, would you consider trying another line of reasoning because the driver's privileges and Second Amendment comparison are not only inaccurate but dishonest.

As I did take time to explain, so "the hard question wasn't ignored," it just didn't play out the way you wanted.

But your government did ban fox hunting.

So not many were affected.

Just like banning guns.

Not many were affected.

A ban here, a ban there, and pretty soon you're talking some real governmental control with your full, approving acquiesence.

Y'all enjoy...


Edited to add: How many times does it take for the explanation of amending the Constitution to the United States to sink in? Is there some software blocker that prevents you anti-gun folks, who are just looking out for us 'Muricans for our own good so I should be grateful, from acknowledging that we HAVE a way to change the Constitution including the Second Amendment?

Yet, in over 230 years, we haven't.

Because we don't want to.

'Laws' do NOT trump the Constitution.

The Constitution trumps the laws that try to usurp the Constitution.


paedophilia illegal
In civilized countries like mine, yes. I believe I can link to a thread regarding 1,400 cases of systemized acts somewhere else. Good thing you've got time to instruct us on behavior.

Lonewolf_50 29th Oct 2014 23:05


How else do you lie without making it up?
Irony, thy name is Lord Spandex Masher.

@PTT
As a matter of fact, I can carry a halberd most places in this country, and the most I would get out of that is a curious look.
If I were at a local RenFair, I'd fit right in.

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 23:07

Chips,


I suspect that it was a simple oversight based on rarity as opposed to anything more sinister.

Lonewolf_50 29th Oct 2014 23:09

mr gallacher, it isn't just in the southern states that such laws are occasionally broken.

There was a celebrated case in Washington State a few years ago, wherein a man was having sex with a horse, on the receiving end, and sadly for him he died of it. I'll find you a link. It was the topic of many a jest ... (EDIT: link provided, and an excerpt below). If you read the news article, you will find that he was not the only man enjoying that form of recreation.

Your cartoon view of my country is again noted, and your lack of sincerity as well. As you note, our society deems fornication with animals not so acceptable. What you seem to gloss over, and are unable to handle, is that our society still deems our bill of rights acceptable.

That you don't is, in truth, irrelevant.

Thanks for playing.


Story from 2005

On July 2, a 45-year-old Seattle man died from something called acute peritonitis. His colon was perforated while he was having sex with a horse.

The man, who died before he was dropped off at Enumclaw Community Hospital, was traced back to a 40-acre farm where investigators found hundreds of hours of videotape depicting men, including the one who died, having sex with horses. He had bought the stallion earlier this year. His family told a reporter they were surprised at the purchase.

con-pilot 29th Oct 2014 23:09

Some people just cannot understand the difference between laws and Rights.

Until they figure out and understand that difference, there is no reason to continue.


But, I must say, I may run out of popcorn if this keeps up much longer.

Mr Chips 29th Oct 2014 23:10

disagree SFFP, I called him out on his previous post...and he then did it again....

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 23:12


Originally Posted by brickhistory (Post 8719965)
I stand corrected.

Please, SFFP, would you consider trying another line of reasoning because the driver's privileges and Second Amendment comparison are not only inaccurate but dishonest.

As I did take time to explain, so "the hard question wasn't ignored," it just didn't play out the way you wanted.

But your government did ban fox hunting.

So not many were affected.

Just like banning guns.

Not many were affected.

A ban here, a ban there, and pretty soon you're talking some real governmental control with your full, approving acquiesence.

Y'all enjoy...


Edited to add: How many times does it take for the explanation of amending the Constitution to the United States to sink in? Is there some software blocker that prevents you anti-gun folks, who are just looking out for us 'Muricans for our own good so I should be grateful, from acknowledging that we HAVE a way to change the Constitution including the Second Amendment?

Yet, in over 230 years, we haven't.

Because we don't want to.

'Laws' do NOT trump the Constitution.

The Constitution trumps the laws that try to usurp the Constitution.


Sorry chap but if you are unable to see the point its not very good simply shouting and stamping your feet about it....


I simply asked if you were happy to have complied with the requirements to undergo driver training, compulsory testing and subsequent random examination.


After all I think we would both agree that a car is a bloody dangerous thing in the hands of the untrained and simply giving one to someone and allowing them to 'get on with it' would be pretty bloody stupid wouldn't it......

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 23:12

In his defense, his horse is out of shape from not being able to chase foxes, so he's probably preoccupied with that situation versus staying logical and accurate.

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 23:14

Again, SFFP, your not liking the answer is not my problem.

Neither, as a reminder, is your view on American guns.

Our Bill of Rights, our ways.

Lord Spandex Masher 29th Oct 2014 23:15


Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 (Post 8719967)
Irony, thy name is Lord Spandex Masher.

The quoted question wasn't an admission of intent, just in case you're confused. Not entirely sure where you get irony from.

Lonewolf_50 29th Oct 2014 23:16

And the frequency of use is ... what? SFFP, your apples and oranges continues. Please continue, I think I need more fruit salad with con's popcorn, before it runs out.

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 23:17

Irony ore?

One of the best mines around is LSM, Ltd., even if it was an accidental discovery.

Lonewolf_50 29th Oct 2014 23:18


The quoted question wasn't an admission of intent, just in case you're confused. Not entirely sure where you get irony from.
Your giving the needle for someone stuff up, given your track record in the last ten pages.

Cheers.

bcgallacher 29th Oct 2014 23:18

Brick history you seem to have a thing about foxhunting.Do you really think that it is acceptable to chase to exhaustion a small dog like animal with a pack of hounds then allow them to tear it to pieces? If it is a matter of culling for some reason then use a humane method such as shooting as hunting with hounds is not a very efficient method.
.

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 23:18


Originally Posted by brickhistory (Post 8719985)
Again, SFFP, your not liking the answer is not my problem.

Neither, as a reminder, is your view on American guns.

Our Bill of Rights, our ways.


Really, what is my view on American guns..............


Why so fearful to answer my very simple motoring question............

brickhistory 29th Oct 2014 23:19


Why so fearful to answer my very simple motoring question
Look up a few posts.

Seldomfitforpurpose 29th Oct 2014 23:20


Originally Posted by brickhistory (Post 8719997)
Look up a few posts.


Simple question chap, come on you can do it..................


And about my view on American guns, you going to enlighten me?

con-pilot 29th Oct 2014 23:22


Why so fearful to answer my very simple motoring question............
Your motoring questions concerns LAWS.

Guns and the Right to own one if one choses do so, is a

RIGHT

There is a difference, one you seem to totally incapable of understanding.


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