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-   -   Scottish independence Hamsterwheel. (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/541819-scottish-independence-hamsterwheel.html)

TomJoad 17th Jun 2014 23:32


Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose (Post 8526286)
Not too sure how, unless an iScotland actually want to keep it?

True but that goes back to the disconnect we were discussing about the elected gov't policy and the electorate. In a way a bit like the student tuition fee mess that the lib dems got themselves involved with in the coalition government.

Let's take a leap of faith here and consider if there is a yes vote, ok just as a though experiment. How exactly do you see the negotiations taking place. Would there be the possibility for meaningful input from the public, on both side of UK. I know we can't have referenda on every issue but could there be some form of mechanism where issues such as trident are agreed on by majority consensus. Could well be that it does end up staying here.

Tom

Seldomfitforpurpose 17th Jun 2014 23:36


Originally Posted by TomJoad (Post 8526300)
Could well be that it does end up staying here.

Tom


Didn't Nicola just champion and publish a document saying I Scotland would be Nuclear Weapon free?


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-27871779

TomJoad 17th Jun 2014 23:43


Originally Posted by 500N (Post 8526298)
Tom,

I don't like seeing anyone banned but that was a "shoot yourself in the foot moment" if ever I saw one.

Having been banned before, the line is a fine one depending on which mod you get and JB has a good one in Wholigan but hell, he crossed the line and then some.

Lone was at that for some time, we reap what we sow I guess. Yes we all get carried away, me included big time - but come one, I bet if you got us all in a pub discussing this and other things , we would get on well enough - I hazard we have much in common (love of aviation/ forces background etc). It's the anonymity and the lack of tone in the written word that fosters that type of behaviour. Must admit, this forum is the extent of my political discussion on the net, no way would I venture onto the likes of twitter - , there be monster there and I'm too old for that nonsense:p

TomJoad 17th Jun 2014 23:46


Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose (Post 8526304)
Didn't Nicola just champion and publish a document saying I Scotland would be Nuclear Weapon free?


BBC News - Scottish independence: Sturgeon unveils constitution roadmap

She did, that's why there appears to be a disconnect if the poll is to be trusted. But at the end of the day I wan't an indie Scotland more than I want a nuclear free Indie Scotland. Although not sure of the mechanics of the latter:ok:

Tom

TomJoad 17th Jun 2014 23:52


Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose (Post 8526234)
Would you deny Scotland the BEST opportunity?

No of course not, but you make an omelet with the eggs you have else you go hungry :ok:

Tom

500N 18th Jun 2014 00:12

A sensible person would have hatched some / all of the eggs, grown chickens and then had a choice of roast chook or eggs on a continuous basis instead of just eggs !!! :O

JFZ90 18th Jun 2014 01:07

Seldom, interesting link from those bike companies.

I hope his views get treated with respect by the cybernats.


“The first thing to say is that with a name like Jim McFarlane and a company that manufactures in Scotland, markets itself internationally on its “Scottishness” and holds dearly in its own identity a number of Scottish traits, it is perhaps no surprise that the company is proud to describe itself as Scottish. At the same time it also needs to be recognised that we all live together in one small island, share a language and overarching common culture and have many centuries of prosperity and successas part of the Union to reflect upon.

When put in this context, it is hard to imagine how future generations of Scots will comprehend the narrow argument of short-term economic gain from oil that is put forward as the primary rationale for Scottish Independence. It is also a depressingly self-centred argument and hard to see where national fragmentation will end if followed through to conclusion; perhaps Grampian/Aberdeen could break away from Scotland and then The Shetland Islands could break away from that in order to gain ever larger shares of the oil fields.

From a business perspective, Endura’s sales within Scotland represent around two per cent of its global sales, whereas other EC territories – including England, Wales and Ireland – account for over 70 per cent of its sales.

If Scotland were to become independent and if its accession to the EC was then denied – most likely through veto by Spain and Italy in order to suppress similar scenarios arising in their own countries – our business model simply wouldn’t work in its current form as the customs process for trading directly with bike stores throughout Europe would be unworkable, just as it is in Norway currently.

This would most likely culminate in Endura creating a subsidiary company within the EC that was the trading arm of the company and which would manage all traded goods, warehousing and logistics. Clearly there would be implications for jobs at Endura within Scotland and this is particularly disappointing for a company that has until now prided itself in consistently growing its Scottish employment through long-term export growth and in historically investing in product development and manufacturing in Scotland.

Ironically, Endura’s Scottish retail customers, being outside the EC, would likely have additional delays, processing costs and import duties on goods even if they had originally been manufactured in our facility in Scotland as all stock items would be held at one location for consolidation and despatch efficiency and that would be in our warehouse location inside the EC where most sales are.

Endura currently has plans drawn up to extend its warehousing facility at its HQ in Livingston and is progressing this through to the building warrant stage, however no commitment to start the physical work will be made unless the referendum in September rejects independence or, if Scotland becomes independent, until Brussels confirms that entry to the EC will be granted to Scotland as an independent country. That could be a long time...”

Jim McFarlane
Director, Endura

Meanwhile, this made me chuckle. Its clearly NOT a vote for the SNP, honest!

http://www.thinkscotland.org/images/...arge_12306.jpg

MFC_Fly 18th Jun 2014 05:23

Well that was certainly an interesting evening of posts to catch up on this morning. I almost thought SFFP was actually going to outpost TJ for once, but after a slow start TJ soon got into the swing of things.

The final scores are, in reverse order, from 1700 until midnight last night....


In 4th place we have Perthsaint with a lowly 15 posts, come on PS, you can do better (well on number of posts at least, if not their content :E)

In joint second place SFFP and 500N with 22 posts each. You stormed into the lead SFFP but then started to tire - the tortoise and the hare comes to mind.

But as usual, our run-away winner (I was worried he would be beaten into second place for once!) is TJ with 32 posts, with 30 of those coming after 1930 - well done TJ, as usual an excellent posting rate from you :ok:




Do none of you have real lives and families or loved ones to spend your evenings with :confused:

mad_jock 18th Jun 2014 09:49

can you be a member of the common market these days but not the EU?

Trossie 18th Jun 2014 10:01

Dunno. Ask Switzerland?

JFZ90 18th Jun 2014 12:20

Following the bike industry trade concerns, this is illuminating

http://chokkablog.********.co.uk/201...esent.html?m=1

EDIT: not sure that link works, how about this

http://tinyurl.com/ltrjedn

TomJoad 18th Jun 2014 13:19


Originally Posted by 500N (Post 8526330)
A sensible person would have hatched some / all of the eggs, grown chickens and then had a choice of roast chook or eggs on a continuous basis instead of just eggs !!! :O

Love it.:D

MFC_Fly 18th Jun 2014 14:49

BBC News - Scottish independence: Post-referendum agreement reached


From the article...


The UK and Scottish governments have finally agreed a form of words to explain what will happen after the independence referendum.


Their explanation of the processes that will be followed in the event of either a "Yes" or a "No" vote will be included in an Electoral Commission information leaflet.


The commission had asked the two governments to come up with a joint statement by last Christmas.


But negotiations took much longer.
<My bold>

Doesn't bode well for the future in the unlikely event of a yes vote. I honestly think the 18 month from referendum to Independence Day is too short and yet another display of SNP planning incompetence.

Seldomfitforpurpose 18th Jun 2014 18:37

Not a fan of this guy in any shape or form but there is absolutely no ambiguity in what he is saying especially when you consider who he is saying it to


BBC News - Scottish independence: Balls defends ruling out currency union

Seldomfitforpurpose 18th Jun 2014 18:48

Reflected here perhaps?


BBC News - Vote 2014 Election News and Results


53% No v 36% Yes.......................

perthsaint 18th Jun 2014 18:57

Seems the coalition aren't talking to Balls :confused:

Independent Scotland 'may keep pound' to ensure stability | Politics | The Guardian

JFZ90 18th Jun 2014 18:58


Doesn't bode well for the future in the unlikely event of a yes vote. I honestly think the 18 month from referendum to Independence Day is too short and yet another display of SNP planning incompetence.
Indeed.

A six month delay to an announcement that says almost nothing other than "we'll have a chat and in the meantime the current arrangements will continue" suggests that the delay to agree something tricky could take decades....

I wonder which side dragged it out - my guess would be SNP trying to 'say x, y, z' and the rUK going 'err, no'. Then SNP saying 'we won't agree to release it then'. Then rUK going 'OK we'll wait until you give in'.

mad_jock 18th Jun 2014 19:03

Sounds like someone as let fanta pants out again without someone to stop him talking pish perthsaint.

He is getting a real kicking in his constituancy i suspect he will be out on his ear what ever happens.

JFZ90 18th Jun 2014 19:27


Sounds like someone as let fanta pants out again without someone to stop him talking pish perthsaint.

He is getting a real kicking in his constituancy i suspect he will be out on his ear what ever happens
No it just looks the single random loose anonymous cannon talking rubbish back in March 2014.

This is just Olympic standard straw clutching Perthsaint.

Do you really still think you'd get a CU without strings?

perthsaint 18th Jun 2014 19:36

Well, who can say....:p

Everything up for negotiation if Scots vote for independence, Hammond says | Politics | The Guardian


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