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Andu 4th Jan 2013 00:42

First boat of the year, with 43 country shoppers on board, "intercepted" off Darwin. A second boat with 46 on board taken into an Indonesian port with technical difficulties. Maybe someone pulled the bung a bit prematurely?

Andu 4th Jan 2013 00:45

Cooda, when people (my children included) say they hate Abbott, I usually ask what in particular it is about him that they hate. No one's ever given me an answer beyond something along the lines of "he's an idiot".

Which I suppose proves how effective the Labor slime campaign continues to be.

Buster Hyman 4th Jan 2013 00:49


By and large Victorians are a bunch of lefties. Always have been, always will be.
How dare you Madam!!!!


Along came Beazley, and from then on it all seems to have gone downhill.
cuefaye...My MIL by marriage worked in he Parliamentary library and always said that Howard & Beasley were the only two Gentlemen politicians that she dealt with. That's second hand of course, if you dealt with him first hand, well...there you go.


First boat of the year, with 43 country shoppers on board, "intercepted" off Darwin. A second boat with 46 on board taken into an Indonesian port with technical difficulties.
Spare a thought for our Indonesian neighbors people...they'll be doing it tough with this fish shortage up there!

Worrals in the wilds 4th Jan 2013 01:10


How dare you Madam!!!!
;)
I did say 'by and large' :}.

cuefaye...My MIL by marriage worked in he Parliamentary library and always said that Howard & Beasley were the only two Gentlemen politicians that she dealt with. That's second hand of course, if you dealt with him first hand, well...there you go.
FWIW Gillard is apparently charming, professional and very pleasant. That's second hand, but from two different trusted sources. Both also liked dealing with Howard.

Captain Sand Dune 4th Jan 2013 03:07


Along came Beazley, and from then on it all seems to have gone downhill.
Started with Goof, I reckon.

FWIW Gillard is apparently charming, professional and very pleasant. That's second hand, but from two different trusted sources. Both also liked dealing with Howard.
I wonder if she pleasantly and charmingly slipped the knife in betweens KRudd's shoulder blades. Certainly quite professional though......sort of.

In the vast ocean of ALP despair and incompetence there must be a lonely straw. Clutch it Bon Giorno old chap, clutch it!
Now, now!! Be nice!! I for one welcome McTernan's Troopers back after the Chrissy break. Welcome back Bon Giorno/Red T-Bar/Matt Grey/et al!! As a well known red haired clown said a while ago; game on!!:E

Croozin 4th Jan 2013 03:23


I for one welcome McTernan's Troopers back after the Chrissy break. Welcome back Bon Giorno/Red T-Bar/Matt Grey/et al!!
They(should that be 'he'?) have an alter ego over on the US hamster Wheel, Temp Spike. Entertaining in the extreme to read some of his... errr... conclusions about how we right wing reactionaries have no one but no one but ourselves (and certainly not Barry Obama and Co) to blame for the sorry state of the world today.

Bon Giorno 4th Jan 2013 03:37

Australia commences 2013 in fantastic shape despite despite unsupportable ambit claims that it is in "a mess".

Business confidence has never been higher as even the Liberal Party house magazine acknowledges


OPTIMISM among mid-sized Australian businesses has hit record highs in the lead-up to Christmas, a quarterly survey has found.
Commonwealth Bank's future business index rose to 9.3 in December, from 4.3 in September.
The survey focuses on companies with a revenue of $10 million to $100 million, assessing their outlook on business conditions and challenges, projected revenue, investment plans and how prepared they are to cope with volatile conditions in the next six months.
The index first hit 9.3 in March this year, and was its highest ever score.
Almost half (45 per cent) of the companies surveyed said they were well-prepared for future business conditions, while 31 per cent said they thought conditions would improve in the next six months.

Government spending is less as a % of GDP than it averaged under Howard despite claims of spending like drunken sailors not only from the economically challenged but more importantly people who really should know better. Like pretenders to higher office such as Abbott and Hockey. :ugh:

ASX was up some 14% (or $151 billion in market cap) at year end. Now more than six month since the so called carbon tax started.

Happy New Year Whyalla - still standing I see. :D

The Great Liberal Phony Carbongeddon Scare of 2012 will not be at all well regarded at the ballot boxes. :=

ASX up again yesterday - market capitalisation up around $180 billion since so called carbon tax started.

Interest rates are at record lows. Levels never seen under the once fabled Howard/Costello team when life was all sunshine, lollipops, rainbows and unicorns. Apparently.

Interest rates in fact not seen under a Liberal Government since Menzies time.

And contrary to popular economic theory under such conditions the A$ continues to remain strong.
Think the international clever money people investing in A$ assets maybe know something?

The Nervous Nellies have been hyperventilating over whether there's a budget surplus of $1bn or shock horror, a deficit of a $1bn. Big deal. The US budget deficit has been in excess of $1 trillion for the past 4 yrs.

So should Oz go for surplus?
Merrill Lynch = No
UBS = No
TD Securities = No
JP Morgan = No
CitiBank = No
Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry = No
Business Council of Australia= No
OECD =No
International Monetary Fund - praising Labor economic management =No
Leading Australian economists, leading bankers and the financial press = No.
But what would any of them know when TweedledeeTony and TweedledumJoe = Yes.

The mind absolutely boggles that anyone, anyone at all thinks that these two are in any way qualified to be running Australia when Gillard Labor has demonstrated that it is a far better economic manager than the LNP.

Some may disagree but numbers trump ideology! :ok:

Meanwhile trending elsewhere on social media today on total fire ban day as mercury climbs towards 44C in parts of Victoria, 41C in Melbourne

LIBERAL gov's right across the country have cut funding for Fire authorities in the one of most dangerous seasons ever. Boggles
Clowns!

Andu 4th Jan 2013 04:13


Interest rates are at record lows.
Care to explain to us "economic illiterates" WHY interest rates are so low, BG? Words on less than three syllables please. We are, after all, products of the 'wunnerful' Australian educashyun system.

Captain Dart 4th Jan 2013 04:14

Give up, Bon. The ejection from government of this incompetent mob of fools led by its cringeworthy Prime Minister cannot come soon enough.

The days of this dysfunctional government blowing my hard-earned tax dollars on the socialist dream, a seat on the UN Security Council ('whoopee duck'), cossetting illegal immigrants, wealth redistribution in the form of the carbon scam, et cetera et cetera will be over I hope sooner rather than later. Otherwise, at least you will eventually run out of other people's money.

Many posters and readers on this website are in the aviation industry, generally hard working, reasonably well educated and upstanding Australian citizens with professional standards to meet.

You are probably just a Labor apparatchik, so please cut-and-paste your intelligence-insulting propaganda and hyperbole (not 'hyperbowl') 'elsewhere on the social media'.

Dark Knight 4th Jan 2013 04:20

A SUMMARY OF SERIOUS STUPIDITY

(1) Admission that political advisers to the government have botched decisions resulting in a cost something in the order of $20 billion.

(2) Boat refugees that have chosen to skip Nauru and go home again given $3000 each by the government as "compensation".

(3) The pursuit of a temporary seat for Oz on the UN Security Council has, to date, cost a reported $40 million.

(4) 1000 new cotton/rice farms have been permitted to open in the Eastern States during the last 12 months.

(5) A revenue shortfall tipped this year of $25billion whilst the country's borrowings exceeds $240 billion and continues to rise.

(6) Gillard announces a $6.5 billion School Education Funding plan but is unable to say how it will be funded

(7) Dental care plan for children announcedby Plibersek at a cost of $2 billion but she can't say how it will be funded either.

(8) The price of "spin doctors"presently employed by the Federal Labor Government now costing $150 milliona year

(9) Each public service employee was given a bonus of $1000 to "head off industrial unrest" at a total cost of $33million.

(10) $320 million was promised by Gillard atthe Pacific Forum Conference to help increase the number of female politiciansin the Pacific.

(11) The Treasurer suggested planning to further taxthe nation's $1.4 trillion superannuation funds in an attempt to balance his 2013 budget.

(12) Australian Funding for Indonesia - 2012/13 - $578.4million.

(13) National Broadband Network way behind schedule and blown out by another $1 billion - total cost of the project - $43billion Expert opinion is that this cable system will be outdated long before it is finished being replaced by wireless broadband.

(14) Failed Pink Batts Insulation Scheme -Cost $3.45 billion plus $424 million extra to repair the mess left byMinister Garret's inefficiency.

(15) An audit has revealed that the $540 million government scheme to boost literacy and numeracy in schools has totally failed.

(16) An enquiry has revealed that the $16.2billion "Building the Education Revolution"(BER) programme (administered personally by Gillard) has totally failed.A number of schools destined for closure & demolition in the near future had new buildings erected duringt he scheme.

(17) A headline from Adelaide's "The Advertiser" in 2009… "OUR FUTURE MARKED BY RISING RIVERS OF RED INK"

(18) The cost of recording the first round of Carbon Tax commercials was $350,000 followed by $340,000 for the second round.That's $690,000 before buying any airtime. Estimates also heard that the Government is planning another round of advertising to sell the Carbon Tax Labor promised not to introduce. And in anticipation of that, the creative advertising agency involved has had its contract increased by 50% to $3 million.

(19) A planned National Disability Insurance Scheme… $10 billion - promised but unfunded.

(20) Planned Child Care Subsidies …. $1.4billion - promised but unfunded.

(21) The Immigration Department revealed that about $2 million has been spent flying 260 asylum seekers from Christmas Island to Nauru- averaging more than $7,600 per asylum seeker

(22) Nineteen lawyers worked on the Government's defence of the Slipper/Ashby case at a cost of $780,000 to date.

(23) A portrait of Peter Slipper in his "Speaker's Robes" destined to hang in the halls of Parliament hasbeen commissioned at a cost of $30,000.

(24) Bureaucratic Excesses: The Department of Agriculture, Fisheries & Forestry spent $21,000 on a single dinner. The Department of Industry spent $75,000 on just five coffee machines.

(25) Fair Work Australia has so far spent more than $1.8 million on external legal and accounting advice for its investigation into the rorting of Health Services Union funds.

(26) $79,700 was spent building three fake kitchens for the Government's Carbon Tax advertising campaigns. Using real kitchens would have cost $5,000 a day.

(27) More than 10,000 asylum seekers arrived by boat so far this year - five times as many as Wayne Swan estimated when framing his Budget. The budget estimate of $1.1 billion was based on an average of 450 arrivals per month but actual arrivals are running at 5 times more on an average of 2,400 per month.

(28) While departmental officials refused to be drawn on the cost of the Budget blow-out we do know that in 2011/12 every boat that arrived cost taxpayers $12.8 million, or more than $172,700 for every person on board.

(29) The present Social Security and Welfare Budget for 12 months is, in round figures, $131 Billion. Assuming that there are 3 million Australians eligible for this that equates to $43,885 per person per annum. The current age pension is $15,132 per person per annum so the question remains - where does the other $28,753 go? Surely not administration?

Meanwhile Gillard has vehemently stated her opposition to pension increases for non-Labor voting pensioners

(30) Gillard announced a white paper - "The Asian Century" - where Asian languages will be taught in all Australian schools for us to "better communicate with our Asian neighbours". The cost will be $6 billion which is, again, unfunded whilst an implementation strategy has yet to be formed.Fact: As therea re many Asian languages and dialects most Asian business transactions are presently conducted in English.

(31) Gillard announces her "Plan to Save the Murray". Quote: "We can deliver the extra water by investing $1.8billion in infrastructure, water efficiency and fixing constraints like raisingl ow bridges so more water can flow."Unquote.

Raising bridges so more water can flow ???? Can somebody tell the fool that bridges, no matter how high or low,do not normally restrict water flow?)

(32) Water Fact 1: Gillard has "found" 450 billion litres of water at a cost of $1.8 billion to"Save the Murray".

Water Fact 2: Cubby Station is licensed to take 460 megalitres a year from the river.460 megalitres = 460 billion litres so, by closing Cubby Station the problem is solved & $1.8 billion is saved. Where do we send our account?

(33) Further Fabulous Failures:

(a) Grocery Watch

(b) Fuel Watch.

(c) $1 billion Cash for Clunkers failure.

(d) 450 GP Super Clinics promised …. Only 3 delivered.

(e) $2.1billion promise of a "Laptop for every child".

(f) $275million "Green Loans" debacle.

(g) $534million Solar Panel Rebate suddenly withdrawn.

(h) Promiseto build 222 Child Care centres - abandoned.

(34) $38.5 million spent for a pro-mining taxadvertising campaign.

(35) The gross Australian Federal Debt as at August31st2012 wasA$244,325,881,000.($244.3 billion) and continues to grow at $100million a day.(That's two hundred & forty four billion, three hundred & twenty five million, eight hundred & eighty one thousand dollars!)

(36) A random quote from "The Punch".Headline quote: "Gillard & Swan are Failures,N ot Leaders." Quote from the text: "Mr Swan has undermined Australia's international standings and jeopardised our economy. He should have been sent to the back bench, not made Treasurer & Deputy Prime Minister." unquote.

(37) And we won't even mention the 3 or 4 year"protection" given to Craig Thomson by Gillard …..Thomson being the Health Services Union man who, by his statement, "had his credit card stolen" by "someone unknown" to "pay for prostitutes"and then "put back in his wallet again" …… several times in fact!!

AND FINALLY, AN OBSERVATION! Her behaviour demonstrates that she knows that she is going to get tossed out at the next election so is making as many"promises" as possible to throw back at Abbott from the opposition benches.


(any comments BG?)

CoodaShooda 4th Jan 2013 04:34


The Nervous Nellies have been hyperventilating over whether there's a budget surplus of $1bn
Do you mean the Prime Minister and Treasurer? 'Twas they who were most vocal on the subject (up until Xmas eve at any rate.)

On the Commonwealth Bank survey, how many companies fell into this bracket and how does that number compare with the number surveyed in 2010?

Is there a comparable survey of SME's?

Buster Hyman 4th Jan 2013 04:35

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ly...ddnho1_500.jpg

CoodaShooda 4th Jan 2013 05:11

Aww c'mon Buster.

Where's the fun in that? :E

sisemen 4th Jan 2013 05:24


Some may disagree but numbers trump ideology!
Numbers? We talking numbers? Right. Here's a set.....


Right now the Federal Government is at pains to tell everyone - including us the mug-punters and the International Monetary Fund, that it will not exceed its own, self-imposed, borrowing limits.
How much? $200 billion. And here's a worry.

If you work in a bank's money market operation; or if you are a politician; the millions turn into billions and it rolls off the tip of the tongue a bit too easily.
But every dollar that is borrowed, some time, has to be repaid. By you, by me and by the rest of the country.

Just after 5 o'clock tonight I did a bit of math for Jason Morrison (Sydney radio presenter). But it's so staggering its worth repeating now.

First thought; Gillard, Swan, Wong, before that Rudd, all of the Labor Cabinet, call these temporary borrowings, a temporary deficit.

Remember Those Words: Temporary Deficit.

The total Government debt will end up around $200 billion. So here's a very basic calculation.. I used a home loan calculator to work
it out..... it's that simple.. $200 billion is $2 hundred thousand million.

The current 10 year Government bond rate is 4.67 per cent. I worked the loan out over a period of 20 years. Now here's where it gets scary.... Really scary.

The repayments on $200 billion, come to more than one and a quarter billion dollars - every month - for 20 years.
It works out we - as taxpayers - will be repaying $15.4 billion in interest and principal every year..
$733 for every man woman and child - every year. The total interest bill over the 20 years is - get this - $108 billion.

Remember, this is a Government, that just 4 years ago, had NO debt. NO debt.

In fact, it had enough money to create the Future Fund, to pay the future liabilities of public servants' superannuation, and it had enough to stick $20 billion into the Building Australia Fund...

A note was sent to me which explains that the six leading members of the Government, from Ms Gillard down, have a collective work experience of 181 years, but only 13 in the private sector.

If you take out of those 13 years the number that were spent as trade union lawyers, 11, only two years were spent in the private sector.

So out of those 181 years:

- no years spent running their own business
- no years spent starting their own business
- no years spent as a director of a family business or a company
- no years as a director of a public company
- no years in a senior position in a public company
- no years in a senior position in a private company
- no years working in corporate finance
- no years in corporate or business restructuring
- no years working in or with a bank
- no years of experience in the capital markets
- no years in a stock-broking firm
- no years in negotiating debt facilities with banks
- no years running a small business
- no years at the World Bank or IMF or OECD
- no years in Treasury or Finance.

But these people have plunged Australia into unprecedented debt. Well, in a way you can't blame them. It's clear the electorate did not do their homework, because the Government is there by right.
Ah, but they are Labor and people vote for them because Labor is good for the working family - right???

Arm out the window 4th Jan 2013 05:55


OPTIMISM among mid-sized Australian businesses has hit record highs in the lead-up to Christmas, a quarterly survey has found.
The only reason they'd be optimistic is they know JG and her mates are going to get the heave ho in under a year. Roll on the happy day.

sisemen 4th Jan 2013 07:59

With apologies to Buster....BG may well be a troll, he's almost certainly an ALP plant, but he's parrotting some dangerous crap.

I've just re-read the load of bullshit that he's written above.


Interest rates are at record lows.
The hall mark of an economy that's in trouble. Have a look at the interest rates in Europe BGand see how close to the deck they are. Low interest rates, at least those now being espoused by the ALP, are nothing to crow about. Quite the reverse. And don't get me started on the huge slice of the population that rely on reasonable interest rates to survive.


And contrary to popular economic theory under such conditions the A$ continues to remain strong.
Think the international clever money people investing in A$ assets maybe know something?
Yep. They know something. They know that we have a lot of rocks in the ground and so long as we can sell them to somebody then enough money will be coming in to shore up the flagging economy. They also know that around the world where interests rates are zero, or close to that, then 3% still pays interest which is better than 0%. They also know that there are less than 365 days before the wrecking team are out of business.


The US budget deficit has been in excess of $1 trillion for the past 4 yrs.
You have got to be joking. Are you seriously putting this forward as a good thing? Is the ALP so adrift in its economic theory? Surely the "worlds best treasurer" knows enough about the US economy not to even think of going down that track? If he is then this might help:


Why the U.S. was downgraded:

* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000
* Fed budget: $3,820,000,000,000
* New debt: $ 1,650,000,000,000
* National debt: $14,271,000,000,000
* Recent budget cuts: $ 38,500,000,000

Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:

* Annual family income: $21,700
* Money the family spent: $38,200
* New debt on the credit card: $16,500
* Outstanding balance on the credit card: $142,710
* Total budget cuts: $385

Got It ?????

Here's another way to look at the Debt Ceiling:

Let's say, you come home from work and find there has been a sewer backup in your neighbourhood ... And your home has sewage all the way up to your ceilings. What do you think you should do?

Raise the ceilings, or pump out the (ummmm) "effluent"?
If, as some of us think, you are the latest Sussex St hack trying to put across your masters' line of the day and not just a myopic deluded Dullard fan then you really are dangerous and the sooner you lot are out of government the better. You've done far too much damage to this country and you should have done the decent thing and gone for an election much, much sooner.

Clare Prop 4th Jan 2013 09:31

The style seems boringly familiar, lots of quotes and patronising rubbish in one sentence paragraphs....:zzz:

Bon Giorno 4th Jan 2013 09:50



Quote:
Some may disagree but numbers trump ideology!
Numbers? We talking numbers? Right. Here's a set.....
Try real numbers next time sisemen rather than quoting hoax chain email dating back to 2007! :ugh:

Normally falsely attributed to Channel 9 Financial Writer Ross Greenwood who rejected it outright when he spoke to Steve Austin on the ABC recently.
:rolleyes:

bnt 4th Jan 2013 12:02

Speaking of numbers, how about these ones:

Sydney and centres such as Newcastle and Wollongong will barely reach 30 degrees over the next week while most other state capitals face days of blistering heat closer to 40 degrees or higher between now and Monday.

National records, including the highest average temperature of 40.17 degrees hit on December 21, 1972, may tumble in coming days as the massive heatwave covers most of the continent. The all-time record of 50.7 degrees at Oodnadatta Airport in South Australia on January 2, 1960, may also be challenged.
...
Adelaide is heading for 44 degrees today, Melbourne 41, Hobart 39 and Canberra 37, according the bureau's latest forecasts.
Strewth! I don't know how you can Politic in such conditions. If records are broken, Don't be surprised if the Global Weirding debate kicks off again. :cool:

Buster Hyman 4th Jan 2013 13:22

siseman...dont try to beat a Troll at his own game. Whilst we don't bother with his unlinked "facts", he'll spend days trolling the net trying to refute claims put up to counter his argument. Only he & his keyboard now how truly happy he is in his world.

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Worrals in the wilds 4th Jan 2013 14:04

The real world?
When the run's on, the run's on.
Howard learned that.
Is the run on?
I reckon.
Prove me wrong come October and I'll send you a cyberspace drink. I'm no expert but I was dead on the money with the Qld election, despite various posters telling me otherwise prior to the day. They were all really busy on election night and couldn't find the time to post, so I drank their cyberspace drink. :}

The dole debate has shown how far removed these guys are from reality; the comment in itself was stupid, but the follow-up was even stupider. When a left wing ALP federal government alienates even lefties then there's a problem. This is not an ALP government that wins over covert right wingers (eg Keating and Co). This is not a right wing government that wins over left wingers (eg Howard and Co, pre Work Choices). This is a left wing ALP Government that has alienated a big chunk of their core voters with both the dole comments and ref management. IMO they've done that without winning over comparative numbers from The Other Side. Therefore, they've lost numbers; the numbers that would usually vote for them. As Richo (I think?) said; it's all about the numbers.

Not the economy numbers, either. Both sides have bandied them around too often for them to be worthy of respect. It's a bit like the adverts for $250 facials; 'Our studies show' :uhoh:. If there's one thing the hoi polloi have learned in the last fifty years, it's that studies and figures aren't to be trusted. They're just weapons in the PR debate. If there's a modern way to lose an argument, I reckon it's by quoting a survey.

As a former Qld ALP minister once said; 'our people never tell us when they vote against us. They just do it and don't tell us about it'.:suspect:

Strewth! I don't know how you can Politic in such conditions. If records are broken, Don't be surprised if the Global Weirding debate kicks off again. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...ilies/cool.gif
Yank, but he gets it...

sisemen 4th Jan 2013 14:50


Try real numbers next time sisemen rather than quoting hoax chain email dating back to 2007
Yep BG. You got me there fair and square. I was quoting from a 'round robin' email. I should have been more diligent to enable me to counter the administrative back up of Sussex St.

The thing is though the email that I quoted from was from a truly truly died in the wool ALP supporter. It surprised me when I got it. In fact I had had a previous run in with him when I had sent an email critical of Dullard and he had taken exception to it. And then this! Shock, horror. A total fan of the ALP and its workings sending me an email that critical of the "world's best treasurer" and Dullard. What was I to make of it?

Well, I am sure that your colleagues in Sussex St will all gather around the conference room on Monday morning and pat each other on the back and take comfort from the Victorian newspoll.

Sleep well. It's not going to be pretty come the election. And guess what? You guys are going to have to come up with some other spin lines to push out to a compliant media. Spin lines that we have already come up with in PPRuNe so maybe you're going to have to come up with something more original.

Andu 4th Jan 2013 21:17

Jools on AM this morning wearing her deep and meaningful voice as she pontificated about the Tassie bushfires.

The cynic in me sees McTurdan at a strategy meeting telling her that with a bit of luck and help from the ever-compliant and always co-operative mainstream media, she could turn these fires into her own Barack Obama New York pre-election hurricane.

...but that would be horribly cynical of me.

Back to the bushfires: what's the bet we're about to hear that the Greenies have forbidden burn backs and the clearing of fire trails around the worst affected areas? (Sorry, having a bad attack of the cynicals this morning.)

Buster Hyman 4th Jan 2013 23:12


This is a left wing ALP Government that has alienated a big chunk of their core voters with both the dole comments and ref management.
^^This^^

I've said this many a time. In their effort to cling to power & deal with the Watermelons, they have abamdoned the core principles of the ALP. This is what's going to hurt them, even though their character assassination of Abbott has been effective, they will discover it was for nought as their traditional support dries up.

Unfortunately, their supporters on here won't debate that (although, in fairness, I think Fleigs is indicating something along these lines) but trot out the tired old blah blah Abbott blah blah Workchoices blah blah...

Oh well...

https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.n...55243105_n.jpg

Clare Prop 5th Jan 2013 00:44

A close friend of mine, who has been a union official all her life until getting shafted by them last year when she became ill; and who has brought up a daughter single handed after being widowed very young, has just given Gillard (whom she knows personally) a huge spray on her fb page. And a lot of her FORMERLY rusted on mates have agreed with her. This friend always had a good income with the union and her parents helped her after she lost her husband, but feels strongly that parents should be able to spend time with thier kids, not out at work desperately trying to put food on the table, or we could just end up with fuller juvenile prisons and long term social problems.

Trust me if these guys are spitting chips about JG plenty of others will be. They seem to be realising at last that the party they have supported all thier lives no longer exists and has been hijacked by the crooked lawyers, Emilys List, Fabians and spin doctors. Or maybe it is just becoming more obvious that there really isn't a single decent Labor MP left among the whole rotten lot of the lot of them. Trouble is they really feel there is no alternative.

criticalmass 5th Jan 2013 01:12

We all want to assume Labor will be kicked out at the forthcoming federal election some time towards the end of this year, but remember "whatever it takes" is the Labor mantra, even if it included rigging the election.

As an exercise, it would be interesting for the Australian Electoral Commission to undertake the following "audit".

1. Send investigators into every cemetery within five miles radius of every marginal Labor electorate.

2. Get them to record the name, date of birth and date of death of every legible headstone.

3. From the register of births, deaths and marriages, check the last address recorded for those names garnered from the headstones.

4. Check the names and last known addresses of the death-register entries against the electoral rolls and see how many match up.

5. Conduct spot-checks on those electors enrolled whose names match those from the headstones. Go to their recorded residences and verify their existence as living human beings.

6. Remove from the rolls all those whose physical existence as living human beings cannot be verified.

I wouldn't mind betting that quite a few thousand electors would be expunged from the rolls if this was done, but I fear the AEC has not the resources, nor the funding, to do it in the time left.

In my opinion, Labor will try to rig the forthcoming election. The only question is how they will try to do it, and whether they succeed or not.

Worrals in the wilds 5th Jan 2013 03:41


Trouble is they really feel there is no alternative.
A lot of supporters say that in public but vote differently in private. Then they'll join in with the public wailing and gnashing of teeth when the party gets hosed out of office, joining the indignant chorus of 'oh, how could people have voted for those dreadful tory spivs' when in actual fact they (and many others wailing along beside them) did exactly that. :E

If everyone in Queensland who claimed to vote Labor actually had voted Labor then they probably would have gotten back in. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...lies/cwm13.gifhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/badteeth.gif

As far as Queensland goes, IMO this is because by and large, the Party does not welcome internal criticism. The leaders became increasingly autocratic and siloed, and the last people they wanted to hear from were a bunch of members and supporters telling them why they sucked. The word around the campfire is that towards the end the leader wasn't even listening to senior Ministers. :ouch:

It was far more comforting to listen to the noddies and foot soldiers telling them how awesome they were doing and how the people loved them; right up until the day they lost all but seven seats and retained less than 27% of the primary vote. :uhoh:

I imagine that Canberra is very similar, if not worse.

Andu 5th Jan 2013 05:52

Worthwhile taking a look at:

Where's Judge Judy when we need her? - Michael Smith News

In short, $92,000 overpaid in single parent allowances, but because of "cultural issues", (despite the female involved being Australian-born[!]), the Administrative Appeals Tribunal of Australia has decreed that the taxpayer will not attempt to recover those funds.


90.An important plank of the Respondent’s case against the Applicant was that her evidence cannot be believed. In challenging her credibility, the Respondent pointed to a number of occasions when, it argued, the Applicant had lied for gain.

33. The social worker said that the community of which the Applicant’s family is a part is largely uneducated and highly dependent on Centrelink. She said they remain unintegrated with the wider Australian community. She said she knows many of the Applicant’s wider family and that the harsh views held by her immediate family are commonly held throughout the wider family.
(As stated above, the woman was born in Australia.)

We're being taken for suckers, and, I suspect, on a grand scale.

probes 5th Jan 2013 06:53

slightly off-topic - the news this morning claimed most Australians have rushed to the beaches to escape the heat-wave :sad:... and I'm gonna try to drive to my Father's through the white around-zero sh*t (if you pardon my language) that is supposed to be snow at this time of the year... why is there no balance in the world? :E

Worrals in the wilds 5th Jan 2013 07:40

Some of them didn't rush out, either :sad:. There is still one missing at Broadbeach due to big surfs. Drive safely, anyway. :)
Thoughts for the Tassies, too :sad::sad:. At least there haven't been any fatalities but it still looks pretty terrible down there.

Tasmanian bushfire damage grows

Croozin 5th Jan 2013 21:50

It's not just here on Jet Blast that people are expressing concern about how the next election might be rigged. This, from the Piers Ackerman site:


Back in the Hawke-Keating era, a decision was made to alter the electoral laws to allow voters to front up to any polling station within their electorate. Previously, voters were required to attend just one polling station, governed by their proximity to their residential address.

Hawke reputedly boasted to his colleages at the time that this change would perpetuate Labor in power for generations. We are all familiar with Labor’s “Vote Early and Often” credo.

Let’s say that there are 40 polling stations in your electorate. You could, in theory and in practice turn up at each one of the 40 and have your name crossed off the roll to vote.

Get 10 people doing this and you would have 400 votes for Labor instead of the ten they are entitled to.

Have 100 people turn up to vote at each polling booth and, well, you get the picture.

Apparently there is no action taken against those who vote multiple times, not even a slap on the wrist. The multiple voter simply denies that it was them, and with no ID demanded, who is to argue?

Labor supporters routinely trawl the births, deaths and marriages columns and vote in the names of the recently dead.

Why is it in this day and age that we in Australia still rely on the Honour System in relation to voting?

Why do the voting scrutineers require no form of ID, when these days you have to produce your ID for even the most trivial transactions?

Why is there no electronic cross-checking between booths that ensures a voter gets one vote and then is crossed off from voting again at a different polling booth?

Make no mistake, Labor and its union backers are going to use every dirty trick in the book, including electoral fraud, to retain office at this year’s election.

And it seems that there is nothing at all that we can do about it.

Jim of Sydney (Reply)
Sun 06 Jan 13 (07:07am)

Buster Hyman 5th Jan 2013 23:56


Apparently there is no action taken against those who vote multiple times, not even a slap on the wrist.
I can personally vouch that the above is not true.

I share the exact same name with my Dad & when we lived in the same house, we often got letters/fines from the AEC saying that one of us voted twice, and the other didn't vote at all. From then on, whenever we voted, he always made sure they crossed off the first name, and I always got the second name crossed off.

Oh, the other thing I can't get my head around is the amount of votes they would end up with. In an oversimplified example, lets say there's 100 registered voters & 10 booths. One guy votes at all 10 booths then, assuming everyone else voted correctly, there'd be 109 votes counted. Surely there's checks & balances against the amount of registered voters in any given electorate?

RJM 6th Jan 2013 00:13

Even if they spot a duplication, say by comparing the crossed off electoral rolls from each booth in the electorate, or by finding an 'out of electorate' vote claimed in the same name, how do they know how the person voted?

In other words, how do they know which party's vote to reduce?

Andu 6th Jan 2013 01:28

Didn't one of the 6.30 misnamed "current affairs" shows (ACA?/TDT?) have some clown on a few months ago who boasted that in the 2010 election, he'd voted for the Greens 150 times? If that was true, I can't believe the AEC wouldn't have picked it up and asked him to explain, if not during the checks they assure us the do immediately after each election, then after he'd gone public on TV.

Did anyone else join me in choking (and hitting the mute button) when the atonal droner from Altona came on the ABC's 'Grandstand' show during the cricket yesterday? I couldn't bear to listen, but I understand from later reports that she promised to give hundreds of thousands of borrowed money to breast cancer research.

The pre-election pork barrelling would appear to have begun.

Worrals in the wilds 6th Jan 2013 02:54


If that was true, I can't believe the AEC wouldn't have picked it up and asked him to explain, if not during the checks they assure us the do immediately after each election, then after he'd gone public on TV.
Yeah, true. I wonder if anything happened over that? :confused:

The pre-election pork barrelling would appear to have begun.
They could have used some of the pork to raise what the PM admits is an 'incredibly tough' Newstart allowance instead. Might save a few votes from the leftie heartland, too.

Watching a leftie ALP government (that's already looking lacklustre in the polls) kick single parents and the unemployed is like watching a Coalition government give the miners a slagging (pun intended :}); OMG WTF?
http://www.popsci.com.au/science/res...0507155540.jpg

Andu 6th Jan 2013 04:29


Back in the Hawke-Keating era, a decision was made to alter the electoral laws to allow voters to front up to any polling station within their electorate. Previously, voters were required to attend just one polling station, governed by their proximity to their residential address.
I didn't know that, or that Hawke had been so blatant about why he made the change. Surely, with all the misgivings I've seen about voting fraud on a number of sites like this one, it would be easy to re-introduce the requirement for each voter to vote at a particular polling station?

Dare I say "of course", the current government isn't likely to bring about any such change, but maybe the Libs should do so? That's if they can get in.

Worrals in the wilds 6th Jan 2013 06:59

The Libs got in between 1996 and 2007 with large majorities in four elections. While it's always important to guard against electoral rorts I think (with respect) that people are getting a little over-excited. What it does demonstrate is the community percieves that the current federal government are completely untrustworthy.

The same things were said in the last state election here for the same reason (ie the perception that the government would do anything to stay in power); the results are history. In any case, the National Party's rampant gerrymandering in Queensland (which the ALP have also been good at) shows that tweaking electorate boundaries is not exclusively a Labor Party tactic by any means, and it's far more effective than drumming up a few dead voters. To drum up significant numbers would require an awful lot of people working together in a major electoral fraud; all from a party that's currently flat out getting people to turn up to branch meetings or hand out how to vote cards. :hmm:
Legislative Assembly of Queensland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


IIRC each federal electorate has about 90,000 voters. Even if some little scuzzbag did vote 150 times in one electorate, unless it's a knife edge seat it's not going to affect the outcome. It'll make the Greens look better because they're a small party, but it pales into insignificance against the other 89,999 votes. That's not to say what he did was right for a second (Did he get prosecuted? He should have been) but there aren't all that many knife edge seats, particularly in a federal election.

And IMO, particularly in the next one. :}

Croozin 6th Jan 2013 08:48

Weren't three or four electorates decided upon in the 2010 election by fewer than 200 votes? (Sorry, can't quote the particular electorates, but was Adam Brant's Melbourne electorate one of them?)

However, the main point is, as you so correctly state, Worrals:


What it does demonstrate is the community perceives that the current federal government are completely untrustworthy.

Worrals in the wilds 6th Jan 2013 09:00

You could well be right. If any election was throwable it was the 2010 effort.

However, to rig an election you'd have to know exactly which three electorates were going to be at a knife edge prior to polling day. The only alternative would be to have 150 stooges or dead people in all 150 electorates (or at least the unsafe seats) ready to go. You would also have to count on the vote being reasonably close, as it was at the 2010 election. To throw an election against a landslide would be far more difficult.

If you could organize that it would probably be easier to convince 150 people per electorate to legitimately vote for you in the first place. The ALP had a 2.5% swing against it at the last federal election and lost seven seats; that was before all the recent debacles when a lot of people (myself included) thought Gillard would be a great PM, even though the thought of depending on the Greens was a bit concerning.
Three years is a long time in politics.

Croozin 6th Jan 2013 09:27

Worrals, I've heard on the ABC that the Labor Pardee (and Liberal Party too, I'm sure) strategists have marginal seats so tightly under scrutiny that they know which streets in those marginal seats to target with their teams, so I think your argument might not hold water.

AS the election approaches, look at any TV network or newspaper and you'll see the percentage swing required in each electorate, updated daily if not multiple times a day (especially as the election approaches), so really, they'd only need to concentrate on a half dozen really marginal (or predicted by the latest poll to be marginal) seats and Bob (Brown?)'s your uncle.

As you said, it all boils down to the utter distrust we have in this sorry excuse for a government.


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