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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Kodachrome 16th Sep 2015 00:31

I don't want to get bogged down in an argument about boats because it's been done to death, but if you say the boats were still trying to make it to Australia under Rudd then they were doing the same under Abbott with OSB. Rudd shut the door, Abbott drove the bolt home.

The problem with the first budget was that it was an ideologically driven document that disproportionately targeted the most vulnerable members of society for very little overall financial gain in terms of the budget. They had the opportunity to get a lot more revenue by closing tax loopholes for multinationals, but they were lazy/unwilling to do the hard yards.

My memory is fine, I just don't have rose-tinted glasses.

Flying Binghi 16th Sep 2015 01:02

Looks like some think they got a foot in the door they didn't have under the old management:

"...Kuranda Seyit from the Islamic Council of Victoria said he welcomed a new beginning with Mr Turnbull and was looking forward to a new tone being set in the relationship with the community.


"The last two years have been tough with new laws and raids affecting the community," he said..."

Yes, and no boat taxi's available either..:hmm:


Muslim community hopes for better relationship with new PM Malcolm Turnbull - Liberal Leadership turmoil - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)


And some boat people history:

"...Paul Toohey is not especially sympathetic to the Coalition, his remarks on the “instincts” of a group of Iranian economic refugees living in Indonesia tell us a lot. Tony Abbott, according to the would-be boat people, would not waver in his resolve, while “Mister Kevin Rudd, as they called him, would not say no” to them. Rudd dared not commit to more than twelve months for the Manus Island option because the ALP remains totally divided on how to manage illegal maritime arrivals. The evidence is everywhere..."

http://quadrant.org.au/magazine/2014...-rudd-gillard/






.

CoodaShooda 16th Sep 2015 05:11


Tony was far, far worse. Broken promises include, but not limited to:
No cuts to the ABC, SBS, Health or Education
No changes to the GST
No new taxes (total taxes increased under Abbott)
Reduce the deficit (increases under Abbott, no it's not a Labor legacy, it's increased spending by the Libs)
Stopped the boats (boat arrivals started falling after Rudd announces no Asylum Seekers will be settled in Australia and the Malaysian solution. By the time Abbott takes power arrivals have fallen dramatically, he launches Operation Sovereign Borders which in real terms accomplishes very little except to piss off the Indonesians)
Minor cuts to ABC and SBS...considerably less than the burden in cost cutting borne by other government-dependent institutions to try help rein in the labor overspend.

Net spending increases on Health and Education but less than that promised by labor. Labor calls these "cuts"

GST hasn't changed last time I looked.

Carbon tax gone, Mining Tax gone; what are the new taxes?

Labor locked in deficit spending before they were thrown out and then blocked even their own savings measures in the Senate. You can't blame it all on Abbott/Hockey.

Abbott wasn't my idea of a PM but he was never as bad as he was portrayed/misrepresented/verballed by his opponents and too many in the media.

The jury is out on Turnbull and, while yesterday's poll gave him 70% support, that only puts him in the Kevin Rudd category. If he's as smart as he appears to be, he'll toe the conservative line and enjoy a long period as PM. If his progressive tendencies come to the fore, he won't survive.

At least the poll put Shorten where he more fairly belongs. Abbott's departure now puts his position under much greater pressure.

We've endured over 7 years of AbbottAbbottAbbott and its had the desired effect. He's gone.

Can we have a break from it now please?

Jeps 16th Sep 2015 05:37

I take a left on sex and right on the economy so I don't really have a dog in this fight. The problem with Tony was as leader you are expected to do certain things as we all define leadership in our own minds. One is to speak with charisma and purpose, to inspire, to sell. He has never been able to do this and quite frankly, most of the time he spoke it was cringe worthy. Speaking and answering questions in slogans just doesn't cut it and becomes condescending really quickly. He is clearly a very well educated, highly intelligent person and from all reports a good and decent human being personally, but we do not judge him as a person. We judge his ideas, his leadership and the execution of those ideas. He wasn't able to do it.

The public has never liked him because his public demeanor hasn't really allowed that. We voted the last government out, not the current government in, as tends to happen.

I've said before I like Turnbull, however, he hasnt automatically got my vote as of yet. Time will tell.

Ethel the Aardvark 16th Sep 2015 08:01

Oh dear Para, memory ain't quite like it was!

as far as Abbott and the facts regarding boats go.
Boats are still setting out. Some are turned back. Some are sunk after refugees are put in orange lifeboats. Some are towed away. Others sail off after the Government pays people smugglers to go elsewhere.

We just no longer know how many refugees are still sailing. Or still drowning.

Abbott deceives the nation right to the end: 65 porkie pies in two years

Flying Binghi 16th Sep 2015 08:54


via Ethel the Aardvark:
...as far as Abbott and the facts regarding boats go.
Boats are still setting out. Some are turned back. Some are sunk after refugees are put in orange lifeboats. Some are towed away. Others sail off after the Government pays people smugglers to go elsewhere.
We just no longer know how many refugees are still sailing. Or still drowning.
Abbott deceives the nation right to the end: 65 porkie pies in two years
Ethel the Aardvark, I suggest you check the credibility of your source there..:hmm:

The first reference i checked of your link says:

"An Australian opposition politician said..."

Thats it. No name. No credible reference..:hmm:

Ethel the Aardvark, should i continue to shoot down yer linked article or will you find a more credible link ?..:hmm:







.

Ethel the Aardvark 16th Sep 2015 09:10

If you can dispute your highlighted paragraph from my post then you are probably a good candidate for the Bolt/Bernardi ultra conservative party.

Did Dutton really quit by text, what a gutless wonder, probably his straw that broke the proverbial

Hempy 16th Sep 2015 09:14

Binghi..^^^ HA!!! As opposed to the countless Bolt and Pickering links throughout this thread. I'd call 'hypocrite', but then I'd have to dive for cover as the ad-hominems descended.

Your 'party' is in a s:mad:t state. Suck it up, sweetheart.









extra 'enters' so I can feel special too. Forgot the red text though...

Flying Binghi 16th Sep 2015 09:56


via Hempy:
Binghi..^^^ HA!!! As opposed to the countless Bolt and Pickering links throughout this thread. I'd call 'hypocrite', but then I'd have to dive for cover as the ad-hominems descended.
Your 'party' is in a s:mad:t state. Suck it up, sweetheart.

extra 'enters' so I can feel special too. Forgot the red text though...
Heh, my "party". Seems Hempy missed my early pprune posts back in 07-08.:)
From memory i wrote a couple of times that I voted for Rudd Mk1. soon after to regret it.

I'm also a former card carrying member of the Wilderness Society. Thats Bob Browns front organisation. Attended meetings in the union owned W.Soc. office back around the time of the Sky Rail hysteria.
I did a permaculture course with Mollison when he had the institute in Northern NSW. And I did a Tafe wind power course back in the early 90's. My farm to this day do not have a power line to it.

So tell me Hempy, just what is my "party" ? :cool:




...Your 'party' is in a s:mad:t state...
Actually, many Libs and Nats are decent people, There's just in the last few days the festering corruption at the top...

via Bolt... Malcolm Turnbull on Labor’s knifing of Prime Minister Kevin Rudd:

"I will never forget the day that you gave your press conference following your removal as Leader of the Labor Party by your colleagues. It is etched in my memory. It was one of the cruellest moments I have ever witnessed. I had lost the leadership of my own party but, frankly, in a dispute about policy…

The betrayal of you as leader of your party was one of the most shocking events I have ever witnessed, and I would think any of us have ever witnessed, in politics—the scale of it. The idea that the man who had won, in this presidential campaign, an election against John Howard was then going to be disposed of, discarded like another course on a lazy Susan in a Vietnamese restaurant—the cruelty of it was extraordinary!"


Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian







.

Hempy 16th Sep 2015 10:39

Ah. My but how quickly the rats jump from the sinking ship!!

parabellum 16th Sep 2015 11:49

Flying Bingi - Looks as though Hempy may have missed your responding post! ;)


We just no longer know how many refugees are still sailing. Or still drowning.
So many less than under the Rudd/Gillard regime Ethel, that has to be good.

CoodaShooda 16th Sep 2015 12:44

Ethel

There is no Bolt/Bernadi party.

Waleed Ali suggested it on The Project and Fairfax did it's usual line of bullshit, attributing it to Bolt.

You need to read both sides to get balance. :p

Clare Prop 16th Sep 2015 13:25

Remind me Ethel how many ministers quit the Labor front bench when Rudd was un-kinfed?

Including Gillard if course.

There was no spill for deputy leader however Treasurer Wayne Swan resigned from the position.

Gillard backers Climate Change Minister Greg Combet, Trade Minister Craig Emerson, Communications Minister and Senate leader Stephen Conroy, School Education Minister Peter Garrett and Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig have also resigned from the front bench.

Mr Emerson and Mr Garrett also announced they will not contest their seats at the election.


Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/federal-politi...#ixzz3luLABR26
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

Ethel the Aardvark 16th Sep 2015 13:31

So Para's definition of stopping boats is less boats than labor, who would of thunked it!!
Thanks Cooda, there was me thinking that in 1 day there was already a new ultra conservative Bernadi/ bolt political party.
Mind you the highlight of Monday night was to see Corys face after the lynching. Priceless

Saltie 16th Sep 2015 21:36

Croatia now the new route of choice for the Germanany-bound country shoppers. They can't handle the numbers and have asked Australia - yes, that's Australua - to take the overflow.

This will be Turnbull's first test. If he accepts these country shoppers rather than the minority groups
Abbott said he'd take, it's over, both for Australia and Turnbull.

david1300 17th Sep 2015 00:20


Originally Posted by Ethel the Aardvark (Post 9118208)
Oh dear Para, memory ain't quite like it was! ...

We just no longer know how many refugees are still sailing. Or still drowning

Ethel, you never knew that under Labor either. You only knew of those reported :oh: You never knew of those that set out, sank, people drowned, and we're never reported. During Labors term/s the KNOWN drownings exceeded 1,000. Maybe you should show some gratitude for the lives saved under the Turn Back the Boats policy :bored:

david1300 17th Sep 2015 00:27


Originally Posted by Hempy (Post 9118343)
Ah. My but how quickly the rats jump from the sinking ship!!


Originally Posted by Clare Prop (Post 9118482)
Remind me Ethel how many ministers quit the Labor front bench when Rudd was un-kinfed?

Including Gillard if course.

There was no spill for deputy leader however Treasurer Wayne Swan resigned from the position.

Gillard backers Climate Change Minister Greg Combet, Trade Minister Craig Emerson, Communications Minister and Senate leader Stephen Conroy, School Education Minister Peter Garrett and Agriculture Minister Joe Ludwig have also resigned from the front bench.

Mr Emerson and Mr Garrett also announced they will not contest their seats at the election.

Read more: Kevin Rudd elected Labor leader
Follow us: @smh on Twitter | sydneymorningherald on Facebook

Ethel, you are losing more and more ground every time you try and throw mud, and it is repeatedly shown to be extreme, poorly sourced or baseless. Your desperation is actually quite pathetic to watch. I'm sure that you really are a better person than this, but what (or who's) agenda are you following?

MTOW 17th Sep 2015 06:00

Seems to me that Ethel has succeeded in dragging the debate here off on a very distant tangent.

The mayor of a pretty large local government area in south western Queensland has announced that the three or four small country towns that make up his local government area will take 1,500 Syrians. According to a caller to Ray Hadley this morning, the local paper in one of the towns (Dalby?) held an online poll. 83% of respondents are against the idea.

Meanwhile, it's been announced that Sydney will take around 7,400 of the 12,000 Syrians, mostly in two suburbs, Liverpool and Lindfield(?) [not sure of that second one.] I've been to Liverpool a number of times recently. They'll think they've been sent back to the Middle East. The number of women in headscarves clearly outnumber those with bare heads - and most are pushing prams with multiple infants in them or walking alongside. Phillip Ruddock has said that this is not a good idea as it might create ghettoes. From my observation, in Liverpool, it's a bit late for that, Mr Ruddock. Oh, and in the same report, it was slipped in that the 7,400 would, after family reunions, swell considerably. I missed the figure, but it's usually four to six family members per original refugee, isn't it?

But that was OK, because all those extra bodies in SW Sydney will mean even higher real estate prices there.

And today it was reported that protestors had been arrested in Bendigo as they objected to the approval of the mega-mosque that will now be built there.

Interesting times ahead in Australia.

MTOW 17th Sep 2015 09:48

With things having gone completely titzup in Europe with unlimited 3rd World immigration into that region, one politician who has been championing just that for Australia for years now has been unusually silent.

Sarah, I'm sure I'm not the only one who would cancel all appointments should you choose to put yourself before the cameras to tell us how Europe should handle the current situation.

david1300 17th Sep 2015 12:06

Agreed - where is Sarah with her simplistic view on solving world issues; or rather, Australia's role in solving world issues :=


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