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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

MTOW 24th Jun 2015 06:45

dr dre, I hadn't read your posts on the previous page before posting the message immediately above.

Maaaaate, have you ever been to Greece? The people - or the vast majority of them - have a pathological aversion to paying any form of tax or for utilities (like bus or train fares). The silly bloody tourists are the only people who pay for their ride on the Athens Underground. The locals have turned jumping the barrier into an art form.

To repeat myself. My comments about the people who are coming here because the economic situation has gone titsup back home has nothing to do with race. I had - and have the same reservations about all the bloody Brits who came here after the Winter of Discontent in the UK. What upsets me is the way the vast majority of them (certainly the Brits - look at [or listen to] the thick Geordie or Scots accents of damn near every strike-leading ultra-left union shop steward in this country over the last thirty years, right up to Doug Cameron). Did they take a moment to examine their own navels and surmise "Gee, we really screwed up our own country with our unreasonable industrial demands. Maybe we should keep out mouths shut for a while and see how the people do it in this new country where the locals haven't screwed up as badly as we did."

No, they didn't do that but instead, tried - with considerable success - to re-create the exact conditions that they had created "back home". And to a very large degree, they've managed to destroy industry here as just they did back in the UK. (Not that they weren't helped along the way by some - too many - locals.)

I can't know that some of the newly-arrived Greeks will or won't be the same, but I fear they will be.

I'm like most Australians. I don't give a damn what colour a person's skin is or what shape his eyes are. If he or she comes here and gets stuck in and fits in (and by that, I mean doesn't demand we do it the way he or she did it in the old country - as too many of the Brits who escaped Maggie Thatcher have done AND as too many of those of a certain religion we're not allowed to name here are doing), he or she is welcome as my neighbour.

So spare me the racist bull***t.

Worrals in the wilds 24th Jun 2015 07:22


No, I don't recall in history of any Russian communist actually killing anyone on Australian soil.
We have the benefit of hindsight on this. At the time it was considered a very real possibility.

Allison, if you look in today's The Australian you will see an article by Janet Albrechtson in which it becomes very clear that Abbott and his ministers were given duff gen by Bret Walker SC.
True, but there is has been a bit of argy-bargy in the press between Walker and the government over the original advice, and Albrechtson does tend to spruik the government line when required. I wouldn't call her impartial, not by a loooong shot.

parabellum 24th Jun 2015 07:45

As you wish Worrals! ;)


(and I never suggested she was independent, but she is a qualified lawyer and can usually pick through the chaff).

bosnich71 24th Jun 2015 07:59

MTOW ...." like most Australians I don't give a damn what colour a person's skin is" etc.etc.
Certainly seems like you've got a problem with the Brits. Not racist of course.

MTOW 24th Jun 2015 08:35

bos, I have a problem with those Brits who came here after screwing up their own country and then did everything they could to re-create the conditions here that had been proven to send companies broke in the UK. In the 60s through to the 90s, virtually every union boss leading a strike in this country had a northern Brit. accent so bloody thick it was a wonder that most of his union "workers" could understand his "everybody out!" command. But I'll admit - we had enough red-raggers of our own to boot. Norm Gallagher of the infamous BLF comes immediately to mind.

That tradition has permeated into our government and public service, where we repeatedly indulge in that great Australian tradition of: "Let's go overseas and pay a fortune to bring a system here that's been proven not to work overseas - but WE'LL get it right."

Which we never do.

410 24th Jun 2015 08:59


Apparently that mental dwarf who appeared on Q&A, was paid to appear. He was spruiking on Ben Fordham's show, or rather skiting, that the ABC sent transport to bring him in from out west suburbs and back
If true, could cause some in the ABC some embarrassment.

Pinky the pilot 24th Jun 2015 09:22


In the 60s through to the 90s, virtually every union boss leading a strike in this country had a northern Brit. accent so bloody thick it was a wonder that most of his union "workers" could understand his "everybody out!" command.
MTOW; I quite clearly remember back in the early 70`s of two instances, only about one or two months apart in Adelaide of a quite successful small business going about its way, each having around a dozen employees. They both were non unionised. Until......:uhoh:

Along came a Union rep with the above mentioned accent and convinced some but not all employees to join the Union. From memory it was what was then known as the Amalgamated Metal Workers Union. Of course, under the `closed shop` policy, all the holdouts then were forced to join!:ugh:

A massive log of claims was then served on the Employer and, yes, the words `Everyone out!` were heard.

The result in both cases was that the business closed its doors and everyone lost their jobs!:ugh::sad:

And also, in both cases the Union Boss when interviewed for the TV news, described the outcome as...

`A victory for the working Man!`:mad:

SOPS 24th Jun 2015 09:34

As you say Worrals, back then it was considered a real possibility. I think right now there is a very real possibility of a couple of whack jobs killing some one.

It is not 'reds under the bed mentaility'.

And as Pinky has said before, if some bearded nut case manages to pull something off here, I fear what the reaction of the general community might be.

Worrals in the wilds 24th Jun 2015 09:42

Okay, I've now read the requisite article :\. Actually she's pretty critical of Abbott and Morrison rushing the whole announcement, which I'd agree with. That said, I smell wheels within wheels. :suspect:

SOPS I agree, but as with the Communists in the fifties I think we need to keep the risk in perspective.

Hempy 24th Jun 2015 10:12


SOPS I agree, but as with the Communists in the fifties I think we need to keep the risk in perspective
The risk of being killed by a Muslim terrorist in Australia is exponentially lower than the risk of dying whilst falling off a step ladder in the process of pruning a lemon tree. About the same as being killed by a Communist in the 50's, I'd gather.

Never let the facts get in the way of an alarmist hate story though, news outlets and the muppets who hang on their every word would have kittens :ugh:

rh200 24th Jun 2015 10:39


The risk of being killed by a Muslim terrorist in Australia is exponentially lower than the risk of dying whilst falling off a step ladder in the process of pruning a lemon tree
.

A typical attempt at trying to ridicule someones position. Yes its larger than, heart attacks, being hit by a car, having a car accident etc etc. A completely worthless comparision. These are basic risks we take as part of a modern society.

Most people don't like having to have potentially elevated chance of being killed by an islamc extremist normalised.


About the same as being killed by a Communist in the 50's, I'd gather.
That would depend upon what the chances actually where back then, versus percieved chances. We know for a fact their are people that do want to do us harm if they get the correct circumstances. Their not exactly shy about it.

Hempy 24th Jun 2015 11:01


That would depend upon what the chances actually where back then, versus percieved chances.
Here's a story. I before E except after C..

And yes dat, down here in the sand I can get away from all the US fed fear mongering hype. I know Muslims, I have Muslim friends. I guess in your world I should be sent with them... :ugh:




rh200 24th Jun 2015 11:51


Here's a story. I before E except after C..
Thanks, always happy for a few grammer lesson:ok: easier than fixing spell check on firefox:p.


I know Muslims, I have Muslim friends
And you think your the only one? Another meaningless statement. A pet hate of mine in these things is someone comes up with,

"I know someone from (insert group here) who does(insert some trait out of the ordinary for that culteral group)"

Implying that because a very small sample size of that cultural group does something, it goes the whole group does. WRONG!

All groups have outliers, standards statistics if you will. Its what the mean and spread of that group that matters.

Hempy 24th Jun 2015 11:56

It's not grammar lesson (sic), it's grade 3 spelling , but in any case - 'no worries'. Btw it's "you're".

So are you suggesting that 'terrorism' is the 'mean and spread' of the 'sample size' of the 1.3 billion Muslims on the planet? Or just the 'outliers'?

RJM 24th Jun 2015 11:57

Hempy, your second clip - the first one seems irrelevant - merely confirms what I suggest most reasonable people believe: that within Islam (regardless of the number of Muslims) there is a violent group using Islamic beliefs to justify their anti-social attack on forms of Islam they disagree with and the West as a whole.

The presence of this group, as of any group within a community which is violently opposed to that community and is attacking it, is akin to a kind of cancer. The 'host' is trying to reject it; in this case by opposing its force with force of its own. The situation is unusual in the modern world because of its primary religious base, but the mechanism of defence is entirely understandable. What aspect of this process do you find hard to accept?

rh200 24th Jun 2015 12:03


So are you suggesting that 'terrorism' is a 'sample size' of the 1.3 billion Muslims on the planet? Or just the 'outliers'?
Thats an interesting point, one mans terroist is another mans freedom fighter. Personally I think their outliers. But there are some qualifiers with that statement.

Even if they are outliers, it doesn't mean the threat isn't there. A small percentage of a large number can still be a lot in absolute terms with respect to particular issues .

RJM 24th Jun 2015 12:08

And numbers can be deceptive. The actions of even one person can be the catalyst for very large events if their idea is potent and they strike fertile ground.

bosnich71 24th Jun 2015 12:12

MTOW...I was in Oz during the 70s' and had to listen to the almost daily drivel in the media that all unionists were not only British but had also recently escaped from the " Winter of discontent" etc. The stories finally died away after one Oz newspaper did an expose of militant pommy trade unionists and,unfortunately for the story,found that of all trade unionists in the country above the rank of shop steward the majority,by far, were Australian born. Has not stop ped the stories going around though even after nigh on 40 years.
I should add that the three instances where I lost wages through industrial action in my Australian working life were all led by dinky Di officials. Then again they probably had pommy Fathers eh, nudge,nudge.

Hempy 24th Jun 2015 12:46

It all boils down to whose propaganda you choose to listen to, and whether you choose to learn from history. As far as I'm concerned, the average Muslim in Australia today is as big a threat to my day-to-day existence as Goebbels Jews or McCarthty's Communists were. Feel free to hide under your beds. I'll be living my life, tyvm.

RJM 24th Jun 2015 13:30

The argument isn't about the average Muslim, Hempy, and I share your displeasure at seeing innocent, peaceful Muslims being lumped with the very few dangerous, violent members of their faith. There's a kind of precautionary principle applied in targeting as best we can volatile, potentially troublesome Muslims, or anyone who is potentially a serious threat - similar to the one promoted by people worried about climate change. When there's a small risk of a very bad outcome, the risk has to be managed.

What's 'tyvm'?


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