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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

parabellum 14th Jun 2015 12:40

No way they paid the people smugglers, if they paid anyone it would have been the boat crews, the fat cat smugglers were safe and sound on shore, probably in the Jakarta Hyatt!

I16 14th Jun 2015 13:13

This is the real story.
News - TRIGGS UNDER LABOR - The Pickering Post

RJM 14th Jun 2015 13:40

The question of whether or not we are paying people smugglers is a waste of time and a distraction from more important issues.

The Left, who seem to be pushing the question, are neither in a position to moralise about immigration policy, nor it seems to me are most of the commentators informed about the situation around the payments if they are being made.

Other more important issues are what may be the tip of an iceberg about unions exploiting their members - there's a moral issue for you - and the continuing blocking of budget measures by the Senate.

I don't think it's a coincidence that the Left is so noisy about payments to people smugglers at the same time Bill Shorten is to appear before the royal commission into union corruption.

The Guardian, for example, has led with 'Abbott on the side of people smugglers' for several days, but only whispers about union corruption.

etimegev 14th Jun 2015 14:08

Someone in the Labor hierarchy has obviously been navy trained. They certainly know the value of a good smokescreen as an aid to getting clean away.

The opposing side just needs to have a really inspired guess as to which route they're going to take behind the smoke in order to fire their shells accurately.

Ethel the Aardvark 14th Jun 2015 14:48

f*cking top planning. maybe we should start paying ISIS to stop invading Iraq and Syria while were at it!!
I am sure Sir Joe said we had no money left in the bank, apparently we paid Cambodia 15 million to resettle 4 asylum seekers, what a bunch of morons.

Hempy 14th Jun 2015 16:13

Apparently 'Pickering' is the only 'msm' worth listening to anymore, even Mr Bolt has given up :rolleyes:

chuboy 14th Jun 2015 22:46

I have to say I do admire your ability to dismiss things as a distraction when they suit you.

I was initially led to believe paying "welfare" to house asylum seekers, even in the most squalid conditions, was a gross waste of taxpayer money. Paying money to Indonesian people who have no intention of ever contributing to the Australian economy or society in any way? Not a problem, in fact to even question it would be a distraction from more important issues like "LOOK, THOSE BLOODY UNIONS ARE AT IT AGAIN SEE LOOK OVER THERE". :hmm:

(At least the Royal Commission into UC is going to invoke some semblance of accountability for past wrongdoing at the expense of the Australian people.)

Little wonder we haven't been allowed to hear how many boats have been turned back, those on-water matters must have racked up quite a bill by now.

SOPS 14th Jun 2015 23:34

And Chuboy I hope the on water operations keep costing money, that means they are out there, turning back the boats.

And if the country shoppers are complaining about the conditions being provided by the Australian taxpayer, then they are welcome to go back to where ever it is they came from.

bosnich71 15th Jun 2015 01:18

Chuboy.. 'the most squalid conditions', evidence ? And please don't quote Triggs.

RJM 15th Jun 2015 01:32

I have to say I do admire your ability to dismiss things as a distraction when they suit you.
Thank you for the compliment, chuboy.

The point I was trying to make is that in the scheme of things, the payment of a few dollars (relatively) as a matter of realpolitik to people smugglers is nothing compared to the benefit of stopping the trade.

Even the question of illegal immigration is like gay marriage - relatively minor, though emotive and used by all sides to score political points - compared with the problems of the hostile Senate and union corruption. Both of those issues affect Austrlians far more.

PinkusDickus 15th Jun 2015 06:14

I hope the on water operations keep costing money, that means they are out there, turning back the boats.
I'm with Abbott; by hook or by crook, we need the boats to stay stopped. The huggy fluffy left wing press are in a lather over this one, and a denial (or refusal to confirm) is taken by these oxygen thieves as an open admission.

As I see the situation, if the Indonesian crews were telling the truth about a cash incentive, then future passengers would be extremely pissed off having paid the fare only to be outbid by the Aussies. Maybe it could turn into a bidding war on the high seas, with the highest bidder making the call to continue or return. Whether it's true or not, it will kill the smuggler's trade as the self selecting country shoppers won't take the risk of being shafted by the crew.

To add to my inner satisfaction, the Indonesian government are between a rock and a hard place on this one. If they say nothing and the Aussies really are incentivising to turn the boats back, then it stays an Indonesian problem. But if they publicly complain and exhibit faux outrage over (alleged) underhanded payments, it clearly proves what hypocrites they are (and always have been) by failing to protect their own borders and blaming it all on Australia.

This is a good case for crowd funding so extraordinary cash payments stay off the governments books.

Clare Prop 15th Jun 2015 07:13

Aren't we already bribing them with around half a billion bucks a year in foreign aid from the taxpayers coffers? What's the difference, really? May be because Abbott has cut their aid by 40% they feel entitled to get it directly from the navy.

RJM 15th Jun 2015 08:03

I'd say there are a lot of different pockets up there for money to go into. The foreign aid probably doesn't reach the people smugglers.

Worrals in the wilds 15th Jun 2015 09:18

Larry Pickering has just published an - if true - truly shocking new article
This is the whole problem with Pickering. Is it true? Certainly he has some good sources and I've no doubt some of what he publishes is true (or partly), but the problem is figuring out which bits are true and which bits came to him in a dream. He's a cyber version of the proverbial man in the pub who knows a bloke; interesting, but best listened to with caution.

I'm with Abbott; by hook or by crook, we need the boats to stay stopped.
Rule One for goverments, government agencies and government affliated organizations; when being crook, don't get caught :suspect:. Secret Squirrel Ops are generally only long-term effective when they actually stay secret, which is getting very difficult these days. Personally I think the Indons have been waiting to have a kick since Abbott's comments re the drug smuggler executions (remember the aid remarks), and this is their opportunity. Niether the Indon government nor the Indon people GAF about boat people or bribery (par for the course up there), but if there's a chance to make the Aussie government look silly they'll grab it with both hands and a truck full of moral outrage.

Hempy 15th Jun 2015 09:59

Tony Abbott's tangled web over paying people smugglers

MTOW 15th Jun 2015 11:44

Hempy, an article by Mark Kenny critical of Tony Abbott? Now there's a novelty. Not.

I suspect I'm not the only one who didn't bother even to read the first paragraph after I saw who wrote it.

Worrals in the wilds 15th Jun 2015 12:30

That goes both ways...:zzz:
Unfortunately, these days most political commentators seem to feel the need (or have it imposed by their editors) to Pick a Side and rah-rah accordingly, whether it's for Team Coalition or Team Leftie. A few established commentators from Fairfax and Murdoch play both sides from time to time and actually provide some informed comment, but the majority of so-called commentators seem to spend their day regurgitating press releases from their party (or their editor's party:hmm:) of choice.

It makes all the daily newspapers (and their associated websites) incredibly boring; it's easier to save the two bucks, access each major party's website each morning and see what they're banging on about. I miss the proper, informed political commentary we used to get in the dailies. If you're not into sport, breakfast has become much more boring.

Hempy 15th Jun 2015 12:41

MTOW. Same goes for your 'Pickering' quotes. What Worrals says is spot on, but as the Sydney Morning Herald/Fairfax Media is traditionally conservative/centre/centre-right, you have cause to search the internet for opinions matching your own. I'm glad you found Pickering, at least someone is still flying the flag for you...

SOPS 15th Jun 2015 13:21

The Fairfax media is centre right?? I'm rolling around the floor. What newspaper is your main read Hempy....the Green Lefty Left weekly?

And I note with interest the person that wrote your article is against cancelling the citizenship of those ( mainly bearded) people who want to kill us.

I hope for your sake Hempy, you're not in the next chocolate shop. But then again, if you are, you can give them a big hug, tell them they are misunderstood, and you can help arrange more welfare for them.

Hempy 15th Jun 2015 13:50

Yeah, I know. Those dirty terrorists are everywhere. I'm so scared, the place is becoming as bad as Mosul.

You watch too much Fox News.. :rolleyes:

Historically, the SMH had been a conservative newspaper. It did not endorse the Australian Labor Party at any election until 1984 or at a state election until 2003.

During the 2004 Australian federal election the Herald announced it would "no longer endorse one party or another at election time". The newspaper said the policy might yet be revised: "A truly awful government of any colour, for example, would bring reappraisal." The Herald subsequently endorsed the conservative Coalition at the 2007 NSW State election, but endorsed Labor at the 2007 and 2010 Federal elections, before endorsing the Coalition again at the 2013 Federal elections: "The Herald believes only the Coalition can achieve [a stable government that can be trusted to deliver what it promises]"

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