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parabellum 28th Jan 2015 06:17


was also surprised at a poll a fortnight or so ago, that found a big percentage of voters were taking federal issues into account
Possibly using the QLD election as an opportunity for a protest vote? Seems the popular thing for mid-term elections, by elections and now state elections.

Captain Sand Dune 28th Jan 2015 06:48

Anyone remember this from late last year?


A teenager has been arrested following a vicious attack on an autistic boy and a hearing impaired man on a bus in Melbourne's east. Victoria Police spokeswoman Sergeant Sharon Darcy said calls to Crime Stoppers helped police find the man they believe could be responsible for the Father's Day attack, which left the 14-year-old boy with facial cuts and bruising, and a 32-year-old man punched in the face. A 19-year-old Noble Park man was arrested at his home address about 10am on Friday and is helping police with their inquiries, Sergeant Darcy said.
On Thursday, victim Lliam, 14, of Seaford and his mother Denise told media that Lliam was now "too scared to go on a bus". "Lliam is set in his own ways, in patterns of doing things and it takes him a long time to do anything that a lot of other kids might take for granted, and catching buses and trains was a pretty big deal to do on his own," Denise said. "He hasn't been on a bus since."
On September 7, Lliam and the deaf man, called Chan, separately boarded the bus at Waverley Gardens Shopping Centre, police said.
A man on the bus then approached Chan and asked him what he was looking at, then hit him in the face when he got no response, police said on Thursday.
Lliam moved to the front of the bus and the attacker allegedly followed him and assaulted him.
Investigators from Dandenong Police would like to thank the media and public for their assistance.
Assaulting a deaf bloke and an autistic kid what a legend.:ugh: This was not his first brush with the law; he has been arrested at least four times previously for similar assaults. However the presiding magistrate (didn't get his or her name, but Ill keep looking) felt it was appropriate to let this animal free in the community on bail pending a further court appearance in March. Yet further evidence that the bulk of the judiciary are totally out of touch with the community they purport to serve and judge in favor of the perpetrator.:mad:

hoofie 28th Jan 2015 07:09

What a brave man he is. Let's just hope next time he starts on someone, it's a martial arts expert and he gets a hammering.

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jan 2015 07:27

Sometimes I think we should re-introduce stocks and let people throw stuff, post conviction of course :(.

Possibly using the QLD election as an opportunity for a protest vote?
Dunno :confused:. The state government is very much on the nose, so I don't know whether the feds really have as much impact as the polls say; it's a bit of a 'bottom of the hole and start digging' scenario. I believe the Victorian result was thought to be impacted by the feds, so maybe there is cumulative effect. It certainly can't be helping.

That said, (going out on a limb :\) I don't think Labor will quite make it across the line. Bligh is not forgotten, they have a bad reputation wrt economic management and while I think Palaszczuk has improved enourmously and done a great job given how few MPs she has, a lot of people still find her quite unlikeable. While many (arguably most) people are unhappy and disappointed with the LNP, it doesn't automatically follow that enough will vote Labor. Labor would have to make up an enormous amount of lost ground to win, something like a 14% swing. That's a BIG swing, even against an unpopular government.

Personally I have found the LNP state campaign unspeakably arrogant, nasty and condescending, in keeping with their entire term of government. When they were elected I thought they would be (as they claimed) a middle of the road conservative government; mildly irritating but doing things that needed to be done. There has been nothing middle of the road about the Queensland LNP. They've been divisive, right wing and antagonistic, particularly against health and legal professionals. The Carmody appointment was the high water mark of many WTF moments. IMO, from day one they have been relentlessly vindictive against the very people who put them in power. If they had taken the Howard approach (final term notwithstanding), they would have romped back in this term and probably the one after. Instead, they're bloody worried, and so they should be. As a person who voted LNP last election, it's gratifying to watch.

That said, I'm fairly partisan these days (mainly due to these knuckleheads), so there's probably a bit of bias in there. :}

rh200 28th Jan 2015 09:30


Dunno :confused:. The state government is very much on the nose, so I don't know whether the feds really have as much impact as the polls say; it's a bit of a 'bottom of the hose and start digging' scenario. I believe the Victorian result was thought to be impacted by the feds, so maybe there is cumulative effect. It certainly can't be helping.
Looking from afar both elections where/are mainly state issues, maybe 80/20 state federal.

Another words people are pissed or bore with the current and the federal government is just some sour cream on the cake.

Yes LNP seem to be running around like they walk on water, and they are paying the price for that. It doesn't help when you have a few old fashion traditional who are independents acting as poison chalices. Populism is a powerful weapon.

The Victorian Libs had some issues as well, and well to be honest they are all closet Socialists, so they only need an excuse.:p

Anyway, Has Newman LNP actually done anything really unpopular, or are they just arrogant? By unpopular I'm mean by those who matter (the great unwashed, not yuppies:E)

parabellum 28th Jan 2015 10:11


Personally I have found the LNP state campaign unspeakably arrogant, nasty and condescending, in keeping with their entire term of government. When they were elected I thought they would be (as they claimed) a middle of the road conservative government; mildly irritating but doing things that needed to be done.
You are beginning to sound very 'Whitlam Entitled' Worrals, wanting all the pleasure but unwilling to even recognise that there has to be pain. ;)

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jan 2015 10:18


Yes LNP seem to be running around like they walk on water, and they are paying the price for that.
I think that is the capital offence. If you examine popular Australian celebs and what makes them popular, to a man/woman you will find that they are publically humble. John Farnham, Kylie, Cathy Freeman, Cate Blanchett... the list goes on. Very rarely does an arrogant Aussie gain or maintain Australian favour. Russell Crowe is a possible exception, though I think most people see him as a down to earth no BS kind of guy, even when he's been rude (and he's also technically a Kiwi. It's amazing how many Aussies remember these technicalities when the issue comes up :}). Likewise Shane Warne. For all the plastic surgery and BS hair cut he's still out drinking, banging babes and telling the media to bugger off. :cool::}

They're both borderline cases; for the most part Australian celebrities thrive and survive by being outwardly lovely, humble people who are just So Surprised that they made it big. It is one of the most intrinsic parts of our culture; that even if you're a big shot millionaire, you must not skite, you must not presume and you must not claim that you're somehow greater than everyone else. I think Kerry Packer (multimillionaire, from a very wealthy family) probably managed this better than any other Australian. Despite being unquestionably priveliged (which he never disputed, and let's not Go There wrt the harbour stories :eek:) he successfully hung on to the populist Australian image of the lovable larrikin. Unlike Rupert Murdoch, he was a classic study in how to be popular with the Australian mainstream.

Anyway, what does that have to do with politics :\? Quite a lot, IMO. The average person doesn't really separate politics from sport or celebrity goss. It's all the same to them; 6 o'clock news, newspaper and weekly mag fodder. To a certain extent, it's more about the spin than the actual policies. That said, as at least 66% (by Howard's reckoning) of the electorate votes the same way each election, the question is whether the remaining 33% is more policy aware than the rusted-ons. :confused:

Assuming (for argument's sake) that they are, then your question becomes relevant.

Has Newman LNP actually done anything really unpopular, or are they just arrogant? By unpopular I'm mean by those who matter (the great unwashed, not yuppies:E)
Personally, I think they have.
Immediately post election, they instigated mass redundancies throughout the state public service. This was not mentioned during the election campaign. It also included winding up profitable, self sustaining public service departments such as Q Fleet and Sunmap.

They did so without any public contrition. Newman was quoted as saying he was getting out the pooper scooper :yuk:.
No Cookies | The Courier-Mail
I know people who lost their jobs in that period; decent hard working people. So do many (if not most) Queenslanders. Again, it's about the perception of arrogance; a horrible comment from a horrible Premier.

There have been many other examples; personal attacks on the Fire Service, the Ambulance Service, the doctors, the lawyers... okay maybe they're all yuppies (probably not the firies, I have to say :}); lately the police...to hear a QPU President speak against a National Party (sorry, LNP :suspect:) government is just completely...amazing. As a born Queenslander I never thought I'd hear it happen, but it has.
LNP failure to fund anti-violence campaign stretching police resources, union says - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

If a government throws enough mud at enough well-respected public agencies and professionals, some of it has to stick, and it doesn't stick to the agencies. Plenty of it has stuck, and to the LNP government. The question is whether enough of it will stick to bring about a 14% swing to Labor. Personally, I don't think it will.
Happy to be wrong, though. :E

You are beginning to sound very 'Whitlam Entitled' Worrals, wanting all the pleasure but unwilling to even recognise that there has to be pain. ;)
EDIT: I would have been okay with some pain. The public service was bloated and the previous Labor government was a disaster. I just think it should have been necessary pain (ie. not against profitable departments) and with far less gloating than ensued. It's the gloating that has alienated me; the pooper scooper remarks and similar. There's been a continuous thread of 'Sod you, idiots, after all you voted for us' throughout the current LNP government's reign. TBH if they'd made the same decisions without that gloating, I may have been more supportive.

I'm too young to remember Whitlam ;). As for entitlement, I give you...the federal government. Hockey, Abbott, Pyne, Abbetz; men (all men) who give the impression that they honestly believe being poor is a choice; something to be despised. Pyne (along with the rest of them) who got his degree entirely subsidised by the government and now feels qualified to lecture students about what they should be paying, without seeing any need to address his own freebie education. Of course, that was an entitlement but try getting him to admit that.

People who know nothing of bill dread. People who have never struggled financially to the extent that they couldn't afford food and had no credit to carry them over till the next paycheque. People who have never had to stop driving their car except to work, because otherwise it will run out of fuel and they can't afford to fill it, even a little bit.

To be clear, nor have I. I am lucky. I am privileged; I have a tertiary education (which I paid HECS for, unlike Pyne and Co) and a family who can and will support me should I fall on hard times. In that respect I am no different from them. However, I believe that the fundamental difference is; I know that. I understand it and I appreciate it for the gift that it is. I am lucky. They do not know that. Every statement they make, every cheesy wink they make, every time they ridicule people who cannot afford stuff backs up my belief that they have no frigging idea how many Australians live their day to day lives, while they earn massive, taxpayer funded salaries. Not only are they arrogant but they are ungrateful, and they show it.

To be even clearer, please tell me what entitlements I have received :confused:. Certainly, I have received HECS (which I repaid through the tax system once I got to the requisite income level, about three years of full time casual work after I graduated), and for a while I was eligable for the private health care rebate (which is now a bit of a boojum). My doctor doesn't bulk bill, though I guess I've received the same PBA rebates on medication that every other Australian does. By the grace of good fortune I have never been unemployed, and by the grace of either good or bad fortune :E I don't have children, so none of Howard's kiddy benefits have applied... Personally I think I've been pretty self sufficient, particularly wrt to all the tax I've paid over the years.

parabellum 28th Jan 2015 11:10

Well I did actually say you were sounding like a 'Whitlam Entitled' Worrals, rather than suggesting you were one, even I was able to realise you were too young for that. Obviously twanged a nerve.
Probably a good idea if people like me , who don't live in QLD and experience it's government on a day to day basis, stayed out of it. :)


(PS. are you sure about Payne? I thought I read he was also caught up in HECS).

Worrals in the wilds 28th Jan 2015 11:25


Obviously twanged a nerve.
Like the disc in my back that just won't STFU :{:}. Privilege is a raw nerve issue for me, mainly because I see so many current pollies treat it as an entitlement (they seem to think it's something they earned by their own outstanding qualities or perseverance , even though they didn't; in my book being born into a wealthy family doesn't count as an achievement), rather than a gift to be grateful for, and built upon.
As previously discussed, according to Wiki Pyne completed his degree the year HECS was introduced by the Hawke government, so AFAIK he would not have accrued a HECS debt. Personally I have no problem with the HECS system as it stands; I agree that 'free' degrees were unsustainable and unfair.

Kodachrome 28th Jan 2015 15:15

Didn't think I'd see Uncle Rupe and the Courier Rag turn on One-Term-Tone and Peta. Wonder if Rupe is grooming his new friend Jules for a leadership bid?

Meanwhile Labor's strategy of keeping their heads down and letting the Libs implode appears to be getting a result.

ramble on 28th Jan 2015 17:24

The QLD LNP are cosied nicely up to big business and property developers who are ruining QLD as a nice place to live.

High rise high density housing and apartments popping up everywhere is great for short term profit but is turning Brisbane and other QLD cities into vertical slums and strangling the current 1950s infrastructure, increasing stress, and leaving long term QLDers jaded.

owen meaney 28th Jan 2015 20:36

Worrals, agree with you on your take of QLD politics. The public service issue will probably have an effect on voting in Brisbane, maybe not so much in regional and rural electorates. I work in areas between Cairns and central/western QLD, the biggest issues here, at the moment, are cattle prices and banks foreclosing on properties. The people probably won't be voting Green/Labor/left wing. With John Bjelke-Peterson on board, Palmer's party may pick up votes.
I would be interested in what the Gold coast region is doing.

Ethel the Aardvark 28th Jan 2015 22:46

I never thought that I would quote the very respectable Mr Andrew Bolt.
" Abbotts pathetically stupid decision to award knighthood to prince Phil "
No more drinky's at Dum Dum's I suspect.
and Toxic Tony's backer is calling for Credlins head.
starting to make Gillard's bunch look a bit tame now!!
https://independentaustralia.net/_li...7308-thumb.jpg

rh200 28th Jan 2015 22:49


High rise high density housing and apartments popping up everywhere is great for short term profit but is turning Brisbane and other QLD cities into vertical slums and strangling the current 1950s infrastructure, increasing stress, and leaving long term QLDers jaded.
People need to stop living in the past, the world and society changes. That sort of development evolution is happening every where. Its nothing but an attempt to increase efficiencies and keep cost down.

If you don't like it move, it will happen no matter who's in government. I like the old style so if it p!sses me enough I go out bush. The same goes for farmers station owners etc.

There a lot more at stake than our own little issues, the system we have isn't perfect, but by and large its heading in the right direction.

CoodaShooda 28th Jan 2015 23:40


That sort of development evolution is happening every where. Its nothing but an attempt to increase efficiencies and keep cost down.
It certainly increases efficiencies and a lot of people nowadays don't want a garden.....but keeping costs down? Only for the developer.

Pre-Cyclone Tracey, the traditional housing lot here was 900-1200 m2.

Post-Tracey until the Labor win in 2001, it was 800 m2, with, say 5% getting down to 400 m2.

Labor did bugger all to turn anything off for 10 years; a period characterized by increasing demand for housing and easily available bank finance. Funnily enough, house prices soared.

Smaller lots have to be cheaper, right? So the trend with recent sub divisions has been for increasing proportions of smaller lots, down to 150 m2 in one case. All in the name of affordable housing.

The most recent subdivision proposal in my area was for 210 lots, none larger than 300 m2. The argument was that the government wanted the developer to achieve a price point and this lot size was the only way to do it.

However, when presenting its financial argument, the developer was basing his comparisons on the most expensive land in Darwin. Whereas, the NT News recently reported that a McMansion in my neck of the woods could be had for the cost of a run-down, ex-Housing Commission hovel in Darwin.

Perhaps, more tellingly, the Valuer-General has recently assessed the UCV of existing local lots capable of supporting triplex development at $250 m2 where this latest sub division's price-pointed, mini-lots are on the market at $500 m2. Nice profit margin, if you can get it.

I won't go into the problem of small lot, intensive development in the semi-arid tropics; other than to observe that there has been a significant increase in reported anti-social behavior as the houses have gotten closer together. But this is surely only co-incidence.:E

david1300 29th Jan 2015 00:53

16,000+ posts and the thread is still open. Thank you, moderators, for being compassionate and guiding as needed, and only occasionally having to wield the big stick.

Time for a short humorous interlude:

A man walking on a Gold Coast beach finds an old lamp washed up in the sand. Of course he rubs it and out pops a genie. "I know what you've heard before" says the genie, "but the truth is I can grant only 1 wish.

"That's OK" says man, "I wish to live forever"

"Sorry mate, that's the one thing I cannot give".

"OK - then I wish to never die"

"Smart*rse" say G, "you know that's the same thing just put differently. This is your last chance to make a wish".

"OK" says man, "I wish to live until a Labor Government brings in a surplus".

"You [email protected]@rd" says the G, "I really didn't think you could get around it" :p

alisoncc 29th Jan 2015 01:43


I never thought that I would quote the very respectable Mr Andrew Bolt.
"Abbotts pathetically stupid decision to award knighthood to prince Phil"
Probably Tone is betting on some kind of reciprocal arrangement. I give you one, you give me one. We could have Sir Tony of the Abbott. Or would that be Abbot Sir Tony. Might be better off in a monastery.

rh200 29th Jan 2015 02:05


but keeping costs down? Only for the developer.
Its not just about developer costs, society costs. Long term infrastructure etc. Basically person per square meter/ Kilometer. what ever.

Long term transport costs, cost to flush your turd, cost to give you the power to run your aircon. Costs of schooling, hospital and location. Its all an optimisation that you trade one off over the other.

High density living sadely is the norm for large citys, we are just lagging behind

capt.cynical 29th Jan 2015 03:35

Why does Toxic Tony cross his legs ??


A. So he can shoot both feet at once !!

Ethel the Aardvark 29th Jan 2015 03:55

Nice one Captn
About time there was a bit of humour on this thread
https://independentaustralia.net/_li...ThumbsDown.jpg


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