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Wiley 5th Jul 2012 07:41


We already have widespread, (although studiously unacknowledged), voting fraud, with people voting multiple times, but the AEC assure us that this is "insignificant" and usually dithering old people mistakenly voting twice.
When you consider that in the last election, the result in more than one seat was decided on around 100 votes. So an "inadvertant" few double votes can change the outcome to the whole election - and kidding the backroom boys in both Parties aren't 100% aware of that.

MTOW 6th Jul 2012 04:24


I'm mystified. Why in the world were the passengers brought to Christmas Island? Surely the Indonesians could not refuse to accept a boat that first declared itself to be in distress well inside their SAR area of responsibility.

Am I missing something?
Pretty easy to explain if you take a moment to look at it from Gillard's point of view: taking the boat (or its passengers) back to Javanese port amounts to.... TURNING BACK THE BOATS... which is one of the three tenets - (or should that be "tenaNts"? :) sorry, Julia fans, I couldn't resist that) - of the Liberals' "fix the asylum seeker problem" policy. so, even if they'd called for help from the end of the pier in Java, she can't afford to be seen to turn them back, for that would be proving that Tony AbbottAbbottAbbott and his policies might be right.


As for


We already have widespread, (although studiously unacknowledged), voting fraud, with people voting multiple times,
I was listening to the radio this morning and heard a caller say that a "friend" had proudly boasted to him that he had voted eighteen (!) times for the Greens in the last (2010) election. The caller didn't say if his "friend" had done so under one name eighteen times, (unlikely, you would hope, but we are talking about a Greens voter, so you never know), or if he used other people's identities, but in either case, it's a case of clear electoral fraud, and you'd wonder how such an instance would not show up as a major blip on the AEC's post election radar.

You hear too many anecdotal stories of party workers going to old people's homes and "helping" numerous (is 'inmates' the right word?) to vote, as well as the dead rising for the day for there not to be some substance to these tales, so I tend to agree with those people who thinks it's pretty widespread.

RJM 6th Jul 2012 05:43

I've wondered about that.

The election, if the result is clear, is often declared on the day of the election.

In Australia, you don't have top provide ID; you just declare that you are whom you say you are and that you haven't already voted, and they mark you off the roll for that electorate. If you then vote multiple times, say once at each booth in your electorate, then when is such behaviour checked? Not on the same day. The votying slips are anonymous, so someone would have to manually compare the rolls from each booth. Does that happen?

Buster Hyman 6th Jul 2012 07:17

We asked for ID at my Polling Station RJM...to be fair, OBL was still at large though...

RJM 6th Jul 2012 07:33

It hardly matters at the moment. I think Labor's fcuked for all money.

RJM 6th Jul 2012 07:35

Even Richo's written them off:

It's the same old dilemma for caucus

GRAHAM RICHARDSON The Australian July 06, 2012

THE revelation in Newspoll, published in this newspaper on Monday, further demonstrated just how deep a hole Julia Gillard has dug for herself and her government.

To be polling 22 per cent in Queensland is the most graphic demonstration imaginable of the annihilation to come.

Not even Kevin Rudd would hang on if an election were held any time soon.

Wayne Swan, no matter who finishes up running against him, would be swept away.

Before any other state is taken into consideration, Tony Abbott would have a sizeable majority.

The NSW result was, at 28 per cent, better than I expected but would still herald a huge number of lost seats.

What really irritates me is the pretence that because the world as we know it will not cave in because of the carbon tax, somehow Abbott's credibility will be in tatters.

First, every poll tells us that the carbon tax is a deeply unpopular tax.

While very few people understand it, there is a big majority out there who know enough to know they don't like it. Every price rise for months to come will be put down to the carbon tax. The debate has already been lost.

Indeed it was lost a long time ago. Even the concept of global warming itself is now a fading credo for Labor. The Government's failure to robustly defend the need for a carbon tax has given the electorate ample time and opportunity to listen to the climate-change deniers and sceptics.

I haven't met anyone who believes the compensation will be adequate: they may be out there but they are doing an excellent job of concealing their identities.

The relentless drubbing the government receives over this, and practically every policy it announces, on talkback radio continues unabated.

Even the ABC, which has always been more left of centre than its commercial rivals, plays call after call of listeners who won't be voting for Gillard.

The problem here is that the Prime Minister has attempted to manage her way through an unprecedented slump in the polls.

I wrote in this column months ago that when the voters have stopped listening, something really big needs to be done to get their attention. Instead of changing course and doing something to get some people to at least listen to her arguments, she has doggedly stuck to the same tax, the same plan, for the past 12 months. She is now so deeply unpopular that the electorate's trust in her will never be restored.

Gillard is at that point where all she can do is wait for the end to come - and come it will. The only question now is whether the coup de grace will be delivered by the caucus or the Australian people.

From all that I can gather there would appear to be some shift towards Rudd but not enough for another challenge. Rudd's position is interesting. It will not come as a shock to those who read my column that Rudd and I are not close - to put it as benignly as I can. So I have no way of talking to him to find out where he sits at the moment.

Nonetheless, I wonder if he will be prepared to wait much longer. Surely, as an obviously bright person, he has worked out that Labor's leadership is the big mama of poisoned chalices.

His prospects of winning an election are probably nil, so he would need to believe that could save an extra 15 to 20 seats to make the defeat a little more palatable.

Watching the days slip by with no recovery in the polls in sight, he may well decide it has to be very soon or not at all.

For the caucus, the options are awful.

If it sticks with Gillard, only a precious few will survive.

If it rushes to Rudd, he may well want to go to the polls quickly and that means that many of them will be on their computer seeking out SEEK before Christmas.

Every caucus member contemplating a Rudd return must be weighing up if his popularity will last once the Liberals start running television, radio, press and internet advertising that merely replay the character assessments so famously flourished by Wayne Swan, Stephen Conroy, Nicola Roxon, Tony Burke, Craig Emerson and others. We will all finish up heartily sick of seeing and hearing them bucketing our Kevin.

There is such a delicious irony in all this. So many cabinet members wanted not just to defeat Rudd but to bury him deep in the ground forever. Two things have undermined their intent.

First, the Prime Minister and her backers could rightly point out that the Rudd forces had leaked on Gillard and cruelled her chances time and time again. That excuse no longer has any relevance.

Since February she has had ample clear air.

Second, the polls just won't budge. Labor is stuck trailing the Coalition by record margins and there is no one else to blame. I suppose I should add that Rudd himself has stubbornly and steadfastly refused to die.

So where to now?

Thank god I am not in the caucus now. I have never encountered the level of hostility felt towards Rudd by so many in the caucus yet I can't think of anyone else who can draw a crowd of onlookers in a shopping centre like Rudd can.

The electorate likes him and the caucus doesn't.

Gillard is just not going to cut the mustard. Does the caucus go down with the ship or take a punt on a man it threw out two years ago and overwhelmingly rejected just four months ago. Watch this space.

allan907 6th Jul 2012 08:47

Of course the faithful few would no doubt post that she is misunderstood; that the subterranean ratings are all Abbott's fault; that it's the best government since sliced bread etc etc etc etc :zzz:

SOPS 6th Jul 2012 12:21

They just intercepted another one!!!!!!:mad:::mad::mad:

And Andu check my post 1504. I think I am going to win:sad: Believe me, I did not want to!!!:ugh:

RJM 6th Jul 2012 12:29

Bloody hell. Gillard's woebegotten ministers and MPs must be spewing. To use the Australian vernacular.

There were 127 responses to the Richardson story on the Australian's website. I read throught them - all 127 absolutely anti-ALP. That's unusual even for the Australian.

Takan Inchovit 6th Jul 2012 20:29

The Faceless Blokes are now calling for the Greens to be put at the bottom of the preference list at the next poll. :E Too little too late, be like removing an enveloping tumour. RIP

RJM 6th Jul 2012 20:44


Labor's 'faceless men' turn on the Greens
PETER VAN ONSELEN, CONTRIBUTING EDITOR
LABOR's NSW secretary Sam Dastyari has declared a preference war on Julia Gillard's alliance partner the Greens without consulting the Prime Minister.
Just read the same thing.

The Labor organism is now in survival mode. Once the Greens have become ballast instead of bouyancy for Labor, it's over the side for the Greens. And as ever, it's the NSW Labor Right which is trying to control Labor nationally. This will be bloody, and good to watch. The Greens will squeal like stuck pigs.


"Most Greens voters put Labor ahead of the conservatives regardless of any Greens preference decision," Mr Dastyari said.

But the main aim of denying the Greens preferences is about sending a message to voters: "We need to squarely let voters know that the Greens and the Labor Party are very, very different political entities."

Mr Dastyari said the departure of Greens leader Bob Brown last month was a defining moment in the minor party's future, declaring Dr Brown as "the last Green with one foot in the real world".

"The Greens are to the Left what Pauline Hanson and One Nation are to the Right, and they share ridiculous, albeit different, economic agendas. With Bob Brown's departure, I can't see how the Greens have any chance of keeping extremism in check," he said.

"If I had to share a caucus room with the likes of Lee Rhiannon (who was elected to the senate at the 2010 election), I would have walked out too."

Captain Sand Dune 6th Jul 2012 22:29


That's unusual even for the Australian.
However the ABC continues to shamelessly promote left wing drivel.:mad:

RJM 7th Jul 2012 00:16

Fran Kelly...

Captain Sand Dune 7th Jul 2012 00:27

Virginia Trioli.............

RJM 7th Jul 2012 03:05

but Emma Alberici and Tikki Fullarton are forgiven whatever their politics... :E

Lex Talionis 7th Jul 2012 05:06

People here are very quick to denigrate the so called 'Left' (which apparently is anyone who does not support the extreme 'Right') but it seems as though the employers and corporate leaders real agenda comes to light now and again as it has done today.
[IMG]The head of one of Australia's largest bakery chains, Brumby's, has quit after revelations he urged franchisees to increase prices and blame it on the carbon tax.[/IMG]
Perhaps the true believers of the extreme 'Right' might care to explain this latest example of opportunism just as with the case of the coffee shop who only hours after the start of the carbon tax put up their price for a coffee by fifty cents,which as a percentage of the cost of a cup is an absolute rort.

Those who attack unionists should realise that if it wasn't for employers like this then there wouldn't be any need for unions.

parabellum 7th Jul 2012 05:40


Perhaps the true believers of the extreme 'Right' might care to explain
Don't think you will get much help here Lex, plenty of us Centre and Centre Right but no 'Extreme Right' I'm afraid.

Clare Prop 7th Jul 2012 05:47

Thing is though Lex it's really hard to tell what the effects of the carbon tax will be in the medium and long term *. Unlike the GST which was all measurable and we had plenty of time to prepare for it. It makes it hard for business when we really don't know how it is going to affect us or our suppliers so it's hard to plan ahead and set prices which will meet those surprises when they come..

eg I'm wondering what will happen to the cost of maintenance after the hangar gets its next electricity bill.

*Apart from turning government ministers into clowns :uhoh:

Captain Sand Dune 7th Jul 2012 06:11


People here are very quick to denigrate the so called 'Left'
Gee, wonder why?

Don't think you will get much help here Lex, plenty of us Centre and Centre Right but no 'Extreme Right' I'm afraid.
Not ALP or Green = Extreme Right, obviously....:hmm:

Lex Talionis 7th Jul 2012 06:15

I think it's fairly obvious that most employers will like most human beings will make the most of any situation.The same thing happened with the GST which by the way was anything but clear to the australian population.John Hewson couldn't even tell us if a birthday cake would cost more.
John Howard lost a sizeable number of seats which was something like a stunning majority of 45 reduced down to 12.If he hadn't had such a large majority to start with he would have been tossed out a lot earlier.

Still I would like to hear from the Liberal true believers as to the revelation that a CEO advised franchisees to increase prices and then blame the carbon tax.

Opportunism is not limited to employees obviously and is the answer as to why unions are needed.By the way the person who posted that his cuppa increased dramatically should look for another barista.


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