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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

sisemen 26th Feb 2012 03:04

I find it remarkable that some here refer to the Prime Minister as Juliar
Perhaps a gentle reminder

One appreciates the dismay, the hurt, the feeling of abandonment and betrayal that the true believers must be experiencing right now. Particularly when all the things that a lot of people have been saying on this and similar threads in the past, and which have been vociferously denied and defended by others past and present, are now being voiced by senior government ministers.

However, to try and spin it around again like the last 2 posts is not only disingenuous but smacks of sticking one's head so firmly in the sand that daylight is unlikely to be seen again.

As I said previously the left are going to be in a world of pain for a long, long time because of the incompetence and duplicity of this government and its members who have shafted the Australian people in the naked pursuit of personal power. Get used to it. Abbott will be the next Prime Minister and it won't be long coming.

osmosis 26th Feb 2012 03:23

Which bird sticks it's head in the sand?


Lex Talionis 26th Feb 2012 03:48

Abbott will be the next Prime Minister and it won't be long coming.
Couldn't agree more in fact I doubt if Houdini could win the next election for Labor.

The part that worries me is the propaganda and piousness that is used by the extreme right blue ribbon Toorak set in claiming that there should be an election held now because of one broken promise.

If that rule was used with the Government of John Howard and one in which Tony Abbott wants us to return to we would be holding an election every 2 weeks because of broken promises.

Does anyone here deny that Tony Abbott was trying to broker deals with the independents to gain power?

Something that he now claims the government was wrong to do?

A fact that is not being denied by those here who want to see Labor turfed out.

Now I'm not saying I agree with what Labor has done but I am saying that both sides of politics are as bad as the other.

If (when) Tony Abbott wins we will see a litany of broken promises and gaffes that will rival anything that has happened in the last few years.I shudder to think of him representing Australia overseas.He has no economic credentials at all and which is something that even Peter Costello has mentioned.

I still ask where the problems are that most here are moaning about.

Where are the riots and people queuing for food because they can't get work?

If this was Greece I could understand the howls of protest but it couldn't be further from the truth.

The reality is that this is all about the Born to rule Toorak party still seething after John Howard was shown the front door with a pair of size 11 boots.

If Tony Abbott is PM it will be like Mr Bean or the bumbling Frank Drebin from Police Squad more than a statesman leading Australia.I thought Downer in fishnet stockings was bad enough but this will be a disaster.

Liberal party breaking election promises...I can't wait to hear the excuses from the far right.

Forget Brideshead revisited....this will be Work Choices revisited and that will only be the start.

Wayne Swan has a lot of fun in parliament comparing the opposition’s economic team to The Three Stooges. He casts leader Tony Abbott as Moe, shadow treasurer Joe Hockey as Larry, and finance spokesman Andrew Robb as Curly.
No doubt Tony will win but this will make the Charge of the Light Brigade look like a success.

CoodaShooda 26th Feb 2012 04:36

because of one broken promise.
Would that be the Citizen's assembly, the cash for Clunkers, the Medicare Rebate, the "nothing to do with the Australia Day unrest, the "I didn't ask my office to prepare a victory speech 2 weeks before I challenged", the "the Prime Minister has my full support", the "I'm more likely to play full forward for Footscray than challenge the PM"..........?

As has been opined many times before on these threads, labor's strategy of demonising Tony Abbott has not worked in its favour. Some mud is sticking but its not backed up with electorally acceptable government.

The labor party is responsible for the position it is in; not Tony Abbott.

Labor has been less of "Government of the people, for the people, by the people" as "Government of the people, by the self-chosen elite, for the Socialist ideal."

Julia has been making repeated comments in the past few days about difficult reforms, in the best interests of Australia, according to the party's ideals.

I'd suggest that most middle of the road labor supporters would have as little idea of their party's policies and ideals as most Greens supporters have of those of their party of choice. (Ditto libs, by the way.)

Labor supporters earning more than $80,000 a year, unless their earnings are directly linked to labor being in power, must be questioning which side of the class war they should be on.

Labor, through its actions, has demonstrated (and continues to demonstrate) that it is not fit to govern.

We don't know how a liberal government will work.

They may become the Abbott-led ogre that some suggest.

They may not.

One thing that I think can be safely assumed, is that when they do gain power, it will be in an environment where the electorate is actively engaged and unlikely to be forgiving of mistakes.

If they get it right, they can expect to win three or four terms. Get it wrong and Shorten Labor will have the Treasury seats at the following election.

Given what we've had to put up with from labor so far, it's probably worth the risk.

hellsbrink 26th Feb 2012 05:03

If you want to start quoting statistics then you might be interested in the OECD prediction for the UK as the slowest growing economy in the G7 and the IMF has downgraded the growth forecast for the UK to 1.7% and this is the third downgrade in a year.I can say emphatically,that I know where I would rather be living both in the financial sense and as for our quality of life.This probably explains why so many UK expats choose to live here.

You really don't want to start talking about Europe then do you?
You can talk about the UK and EU in the threads about them, but this one is about Australia so discussing the EU would be a waste of time.

I mean, we know that the UK and EU economy is in the mire. But to try and use that instead of answering the point of how things aren't so rosy in Aus is a rather pathetic. Let's face it, how long will that "quality of life" last when businesses keep going bust and jobs get lost as China says "We don't want your minerals" or prices for essentials like energy start to rocket due to the Carbon Tax?

These are the issues that affect YOU (even though you say you are in New Zealand.), not the state of the UK economy.

sisemen 26th Feb 2012 08:15

Where are the riots and people queuing for food because they can't get work?

A sad fact about the rise of the cost of living in Western Australia is more and more people are finding themselves living out on the streets.
Perth's homeless shelters are bursting at the seams, and when community reporter Sinead Mangan visited St Bartholomew's House on a cold, wintry night she found a surprising cross section of people were looking for cover

Inside a homeless shelter - ABC Perth - Australian Broadcasting Corporation

MORE than 50,000 jobs are expected to be lost as the economy slows in the next nine months, with some experts tipping the loss of as many as 100,000.

More than 100,000 could be jobless soon as Australian economy slows | Perth Now

In Western Australia there are many thousands of people in need, who rely on supplementary food from community welfare organizations.

Foodbank - An Australia Without Hunger
It's not exactly third world and there are no riots but, nevertheless, there is a problem with joblessness and homelessness.

Just illustrating to show that you have to be careful with glib comments.

hellsbrink 26th Feb 2012 10:33

I honestly think that a lot of people who can't find jobs don't want to move anywhere or go to any effort to get a job.All they have to do is apply for 7 jobs every fortnight and keep getting the dole.

The other day there was a guy from some company in WA saying on the Today program that they were so short of people in the mining industry that they were looking for something like 12000 jobs.They reckon that there are mines in WA that are padlocked because they can't get enough people to work up there and you are telling us about the unemployed.
That is a problem everywhere, not just in Aus, as SAYING "I want to work but can't get a job" and actually WANTING to work no matter what or where the job is are two different things.

BUT, and it's a big BUT, it ain't possible for everyone to just up-sticks and move to another part of the country for work. Sure, many who could work don't actually want to and that is an issue the government has to sort out by, basically, forcing those bludgers off the social and into gainful employment, but whenever someone tries that the usual suspects on the Left start screaming like demented banshees and the schemes get canned.

Sort out the bludgers, and then there won't be the issues with the unemployment numbers. But who will try to do that? Sure won't be the Lobor Party, that's for sure.

And, also, sort out the definition of "Unemployed" where you are not counted as "Unemployed" if you do not work 2 hour per week. That's right, work 2 hours per week and collect all sorts of benefits and nobody will chase you up to force you into work as you are not "unemployed". Sorry, but that is bogus, and it totally skews the unemployment statistics (leading to the stats saying the unemployment rate in Aus is DOUBLE the "official" rate as more and more people take up part-time work on next to zero hours per week but still collect the benefits, and that is before we look at those who aren't actually looking for work). Fiddled figures do not a true picture make, but it looks good for whatever Government is in power.......

hellsbrink 26th Feb 2012 15:56

I answered a post from Lex, as far as "life in general" goes, and I don't remember exactly going into specifics about that so I guess I never actually commented on life in Aus.

As far as the rest goes, it's called actually looking at things like reports, news, studies, etc, that you find published online and then using these different sources (NOT just "right wing" ones, before I get accused of that) to paint the picture that the Government is hiding (same as any other government across the world, to be honest, they all fiddle the figures to make themselves look good. But this thread is about Australia's Government so that is why I'm keeping things kinda "Aus-centric").

It ain't difficult to do, you just look for the topics you need and read the various reports/studies/etc so you get an understanding of what is actually going on. Anyone can do that, even if they are "Lober" (:p) supporters.

JB Mods 26th Feb 2012 20:59

AROVET LI I hope you kept a copy of your last post, as that would enable you to re-post the salient points without all the unnecessary little wind-up niggles that you put in there. You know, just like the ones you used to put in your posts in any of your previous incarnations that led to fights and thread closure.

It is not necessary and does not add to your arguments, so don't do it.

Private Partz 26th Feb 2012 22:40

The machinations of the Federal ALP in the past weeks has given keen observers an insight into the the dysfunctional rabble that masquerades as a government. The spiteful attacks from the Gillard supporters on Rudd serves only to reinforce the need for a general election so that the people may decide who governs rather than the faceless union heavies.

The credibility of PM Gillard is at the core of the problem. She is deeply unpopular because of her string of broken promises, wacky ideas and incompetent policies being implemented by even more incompetent ministers.

Why would you trust Gillard? We still don't really know who is the "real" Julia, but what we do know is she has an unsavoury past that she would rather not have us know about, particularly her role in Craig Emerson's marriage breakdown.

Oh, and by the way, Penny Wong has revealed what most of us knew anyway. The Carbon Tax is needed to balance the budget more than save the environment. But you already knew that didn't you?

sisemen 26th Feb 2012 23:49

71 Gillard 31 the other bloke. Will he go quietly - especially after the blood-letting of the past week? Will the ALP recover from its seismic navel gazing?

Frankly, I was hoping for a few more votes from Kevin O'Lemon in the hopes that the resulting destabilisation would give us a few more weeks of entertainment.

Oh, and the homelessness in Perth is mainly caused by the unaffordability of housing and lack of places to rent. Happens in any boom town. But it is a reality.

A sad fact about the rise of the cost of living in Western Australia is more and more people are finding themselves living out on the streets

reynoldsno1 27th Feb 2012 00:08

I honestly think that a lot of people who can't find jobs don't want to move anywhere or go to any effort to get a job
Daughter went to Perth 6 months ago - only has basic educational qualifications. Got first job after 5 days, 2nd a day later - not in mining, but one of the jobs left behind by those who went to the mines.
Finding somewhere to rent is indeed a problem - she has had to move this week.

Pinky the pilot 27th Feb 2012 00:47

71 Gillard 31 the other bloke
Local radio here in the Riverland said 73 to 29.:confused: Either way it's a flogging!

What's next?:uhoh:
I cannot imagine in the slightest that Rudd will go anywhere quietly.

sisemen 27th Feb 2012 01:15

Official figures Pinky

Kevin Rudd has been dealt a convincing defeat at the hands of his Labor colleagues, losing the Caucus leadership ballot against Prime Minister Julia Gillard by 31 votes to 71.

Gillard wins leadership spill 71-31 - Yahoo!7

rh200 27th Feb 2012 01:33

Would it be to soon to start calling Tony Prime Minister Abbott?:E:E.

Pinky the pilot 27th Feb 2012 01:41

Thanks sisemen. Just heard the official anouncement M'self.

Would it be to soon to start calling Tony Prime Minister Abbott
Yes, as first there has to be an election (preferably a double dissolution, which I cannot see happening:hmm:) and I think it most likely that Gillard would be looking to delay that for as long as possible.

Can't imagine any of the Independents who made her PM crossing the floor as they will almost certainly lose their own seats at the next election.

Fubaar 27th Feb 2012 02:12

Oakeshott was interviewed this morning and repeatedly asked if he now thouight he'd got it wrong last August given that a stable government was his stated prime intent in backing Julia Gillard. It was painful in the extreme listening to him avoid answering the question.

If there's an audio of the interview available, it's worth listing to, if only to confirm that Julia Gillard isn't the only one who rattles on and on and on (and on) without answering questions.

Fubaar 27th Feb 2012 02:20

71 / 31... with 102 voting, to all intents and purposes, 71% to 31%...

The next time Jools sees figures like that, it'll be the primary vote in the federal election - and it will be Jools who'll be copping the 31%.

bob johns 27th Feb 2012 03:03

bob johns
Anyone know why Bill Shortens mother in law is out of the country, and why ?

Howard Hughes 27th Feb 2012 03:10

Hopefully she is handing her resignation to the Queen!;)

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