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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

7x7 17th Aug 2014 10:34

Wasn't brave Sir Tony more into punching walls and terrifying women when he was a young lad ?
Yes Ethel. And we know this because....?

Point proven - QED.

Worrals in the wilds 17th Aug 2014 11:15

Wrt both stories, the question is whether Abbott or Shorten have a case to answer. If they do, then let the complainants bring their case and let the facts be heard by a jury. This is the rule of law, something (I assume) that we all consider important :cool:. It is a cornerstone of civilised society; that a person is judged according to the facts, rather than their position in society.

Gossip, accusations on sensationalist television 'news' shows (whatever their perceived political bias) and internet speculation do not constitute proof of a crime. Anyone can jump on the telly and cast aspersions; there is no burden of proof. People talk about defamation, but it's hard to prove damages and bringing an action is extremely expensive.

The rule of media is very trendy, very persuasive and captures the public's attention, but it is not the rule of law. The media's impartiality in a recent Brisbane murder trial and a current Gold Coast murder case has (IMO) been very questionable :(. Of course my opinion counts for little, but various legal friends have also been concerned about the tone of the media coverage surrounding these cases. One of them (an experienced criminal barrister) fears for the future of jury trials, because in his opinion it is becoming impossible to get a truly impartial jury. Unless the court restricts jury selection to people who live in caves, every potential juryman has been exposed to subjective media coverage wrt the accused before they show up to the trial and hear the facts.

We risk creating (or allowing) a culture where people are judged as guilty or innocent according to how they perform in the media, a culture where we judge people on how likeable or persuasive they are, rather than on the facts. The facts are often far more boring than the accused's 'performance' or perceived values (are they a 'nice' or 'decent' person? Does that matter?:confused:)The facts count for little with the media. All the media care about is the performance, and whether the accused is interesting enough to sell advertising slots between revelations. The media is concerned with profit, not truth. Remember that, and the 'opinions' of all your favourite commentators (whether Bolt or The Project) start to make a whole lot more sense. :hmm: Are they seeking the truth, or the ratings? You be the judge :suspect:. Who pays their wages? :}

In Queensland, wrt the recent Baden Clay conviction we have seen the media run a murder trial as entertainment, complete with a media helicopter following the prison van from the Supreme Court to the Wacol Prison (sorry, correctional facility) for Live Updates. :yuk: Apparently this passes for unbiassed commentary. If the verdict had been Not Guilty, presumably the helicopter would have done traffic reports? The local Murdoch rag published a wraparound feature on the trial and conviction, which no doubt they'll repeat for the two ensuing murder trials of women in the SEQ region who weren't middle class housewives. :ugh: That's with no disrespect to Mrs Baden Clay; I just think there are other women who were also murdered but have been ignored by the CM because they weren't part of the readership demographic. A Caboolture girl who fell in with the wrong crowd and a New Zealand tourist don't have the same pull with readers, even though they were just as murdered.

Andu 17th Aug 2014 12:51

Worrals, the Kiwi tourist's murder will have some pull with the public because the media has a very photogenic studio shot of her (possibly quite a few years old?). Sadly, we've reached such a sorry state that's almost enough to give that particular murder 'media legs'.

They'll just have to be careful not to publish too many of the not quite so photogenic pics of the victim doing the rounds or to say too often that she met the alleged murderer via a dodgy dating site.

Re the Baden Clay case: I must say I agree with you in regards to the trial by media. So much so that I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the husband get some sympathy from the courts if (when) he appeals.

Captain Sand Dune 17th Aug 2014 21:57

We risk creating (or allowing) a culture where people are judged as guilty or innocent according to how they perform in the media, a culture where we judge people on how likeable or persuasive they are, rather than on the facts.
Too true. That's media and free speech for you.:rolleyes:

This from news.com.au.:

THE poor in Australia and other parts of the world could rise up against the rich, French Revolution-style, former treasurer Wayne Swan will warn today.
As the government continues to struggle to have its Budget passed, Mr Swan will warn “the French aristocracy never saw it coming either’’.
Ahead of this week’s launch of Mr Swan’s political memoir, The Good Fight, the former Treasurer will today tell The National Press Club the Government had worsened the class divide.
He will rip into the Abbott Government for trying to protect its high-flying powerbase, and argue the Australian middle-class was protected and advanced by the former Labor government. The current Government is intent on the “Americanisation” of the country, he will say.
“They have forgotten that they have a duty to help deliver a better life to every Australian, rich, poor and in-between,’’ Mr Swan will say.
“As the Budget and its aftermath have demonstrated, everything that the Abbott Government now does is a search for a political strategy to sell that divisive, unfair, un-Australian agenda to a disbelieving public at large.
“A few weeks ago I had the opportunity to walk the high line through New York and on the side of an old brick building was a large advertisement which read ‘the French aristocracy never saw it coming either’.
“What we do to stem the growing tide of inequality in the developed world, at home and abroad, is the central economic and political challenge of our age.’’
Swan lecturing the current government on class division; now that's rich!
How deluded can one man be?! Oh wait, look who he was in government with.

500N 17th Aug 2014 22:01

Did anyone notice that 19 year old who walked out of the Insight program
was arrested on the weekend.

bosnich71 17th Aug 2014 23:40

How the poor are getting on in France at the moment ?
Oh yes, they are still revolting aren't they, Swanny?

SOPS 17th Aug 2014 23:41

What was he arrested for?

500N 17th Aug 2014 23:43

A race hate crime. He abused / attacked a cleaner at a shopping centre,
was removed by security, then returned and did it again.

rh200 18th Aug 2014 00:01

Swan can ramble on all he likes and we can take no notice, but!. Ignore at your own peril. The only thing that practically matters in this world, is not justice, equality etc, its perception of such.

Sadly as a species we still have deep ideological divisions that each side exploits particular issues for their own benefit. The current issue in the US is the standard classic case. We know society stability can modeled and western society's are only just metastable.

We know relatively small groups can basically bring down a society if the conditions permit, ignore it at your own peril.

500N 18th Aug 2014 00:40

Interesting piece here about Noel Pearson.

Worth reading the whole lot. I like the bit where he phoned the reporter who wrote a story and confirmed exactly the behaviour the story was about !!! You couldn't make it up if you tried.

Nice to see someone call a spade a spade for once. A few other leaders need the same, although of course it all caught up with another Aboriginal leader a few years back.

Dropping bombs and stoking feuds: the other side of Noel Pearson

Worrals in the wilds 18th Aug 2014 03:43

That all tallies with what's been said around the traps :suspect:. I've never met him, but people who have describe him pretty much like the article does.

I don't know if it's still the case but he hadn't been made an Elder despite his high profile. IIRC he wasn't considered collaborative enough.

500N 18th Aug 2014 04:19

That all tallies with what's been said around the traps
Likewise, that was why I posted it. Haven't met him but Aboriginals tend to be pretty forthright with their views on people, him, Geoff Clark etc.

I didn't know he hadn't be made an elder, not that I had checked.

Worrals in the wilds 18th Aug 2014 04:43

So I was told. The quote was 'he speaks for Noel Pearson, not for the group'. Of course they may have changed their minds, that was a while ago.
Personally I think Murandoo Yanner is one of the best commentators about the region, though he's not as well educated as Pearson and is also renowned for having a fiery temper, which has landed him in court a few times :ouch:.

Saltie 18th Aug 2014 06:32

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
I haven't read the article, but are we seeing a bit of old fashioned character assassination here? Standard tactic of both sides of politics with people they consider dangerous, as the Left must see Pearson, who is about the only Aboriginal identity who doesn't sing from their song sheet.

500N 18th Aug 2014 08:13


Read the article, it's about his behaviour and how an earlier article about his behaviour was confirmed by his reaction to it.

I only posted the article because I had heard things - from Aboriginals - about him, and others and knew others on here might be interested (Worrals for one as confirmed by her post).

Plenty of Abos don't sing from the same song sheet but their is a difference between that and looking after oneself first over the clan.

Plenty of others do the same so he is not alone, The Kimberley debacle is another area that suffered the same fate.

Ethel the Aardvark 18th Aug 2014 08:31

Are we not due a DD soon, what with all the budget roll backs

Ethel the Aardvark 18th Aug 2014 08:56

I am with you all the way Porch, the libs still in gafferment makes me rather annoyed too.

Worrals in the wilds 18th Aug 2014 09:24

I haven't read the article, but are we seeing a bit of old fashioned character assassination here?
Or is his ethnicity the reason it's stayed quiet for so long? :E:}
One of the things I respect about Pearson is that he calls it as he sees it. I don't always agree with him (far from it) but he's extremely bright, has his opinion and isn't afraid to state it. Same with Yanner for that matter.

The article is not a massive character assassination; they basically just say that he's a rude bastard. No-one's accused him of dishonesty, acting in his own interests or similar. I'm just amused to see that the stories have finally made the press, because they've been circling for years. One person I know who dealt with him regularly (about fifteen years ago) described him as an arrogant racist with a filthy temper. That doesn't make him a fool and doesn't mean his opinion should be ignored, but nor should that sort of behaviour be congratulated.

500N 18th Aug 2014 09:35

I think it is very hard for non abo writers to write about abos
And not be called racist.

bosnich71 18th Aug 2014 09:41

I met him, Noel Pearson, once when he was catching a V.I.P. out of Tullamarine. I thought he was a very polite person as were most Pollies .... it was the Staffers who could be little bi***es, not all of them though.

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