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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Clare Prop 6th Jun 2012 08:36

I remember Her Maj looking quite amused when she met JG when she came for CHOGM. JG refused to curtsey; was it that with her clothing/anatomy it was impossible, or was it just appalling bad manners? HM was able to contain her laughter and be her usual gracious self.

IN any case IMO it made JG look ignorant and belligerent rather than standing up for some percieved higher principle of her own that exempted her from protocol (rather than representing the Australian people).

Ghastly, excruciating performance and nothing has improved since then.

Maybe she only knows the words to "Keep the red flag flying" and "Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau"

Captain Sand Dune 6th Jun 2012 09:36


though several are ALP members
Wow, you know someone that admits to that?!:}:}

Worrals in the wilds 6th Jun 2012 09:41

Several.
Scary but true. :}

bob johns 6th Jun 2012 12:00

bob johns
 
Turnbull ? :yuk:Best ally Gillards got :yuk:I am sick of the PC gutless heaps of SHIT ( Mr Mod --not a mistake ) that infest our leadership in this wonderful country. Abbot is a married Christian right winger and an avowed Monachist and giving it a good serve. It is what oppositions are for . I want an attack dog for the leader of my country ,not some limp wristed caffe latte megabucks poofter that has got too much money and only needs power !someone who will put Australia and Aussies first ,and the look after the rest later and if THEY dont like it (as my dear old Dad would say ) tell em phukem !

david1300 6th Jun 2012 12:22

Friday Jokes - did someone mention Friday Jokes?
http://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/4710...ml#post7229207

Andu 6th Jun 2012 12:34

Interesting twist tonight when Channel 7 gloatingly (the only word that fits) doing a stitch up on rival Channel 9 with an interview with the ex-prostitute who says that she withdrew her sworn statement regarding Craig Thomson before Channel 9 went to air with it.

Too many 'magic phrases' appeared in the interview for there not to have been lawyers involved instructing the lady in what she had to say to save herself from criminal charges.

If Thomson really is innocent and has been set up over the use of prostitutes (and spending $500,000 of union money?) as he alleges, it's been an incredibly sophisticated and well managed stitch up.

As I've said before, if it's so, the Labor Party needs to employ the man who's overseen it to run a few of their official government programmes - because he's exhibited skills that have sorely lacking in the implementation of every programme they've attempted (the only word that fits) to introduce since 2007.

Clare Prop 6th Jun 2012 15:21

Once they have paid the royalites, to the states, they do own the minerals.

She's quite correct in that SHE doesn't own them.

Australians with superannuation most likely already have a share. If they want more, they can buy more shares, or buy a shovel and start digging.

"Gutsy solo effort from the girl" I think your heroine might find that a little patronising :uhoh:

Lex Talionis 6th Jun 2012 22:50

Lex
I'm not a fan of Abbott's but have found that labor's relentless negativity towards him"
Cooda,Now funny that you mention 'negativity' because that is the hallmark of Tony Abbott and is why he is widely known as Dr NO.In fact it seems as though Tony or Dr No has a Phd in the art form which he personifies.

"Once they have paid the royalites, to the states, they do own the minerals.

She's quite correct in that SHE doesn't own them"
No Clare,We or should I say All Australians own the minerals not the state or the federal government.As such we deserve our share of the wealth and I applaud the concept of that sharing.

This in today and it shows just how good we are doing in Australia.

Positive message, but is anyone still listening?

"Also important for Labor, yesterday's dramatically good numbers have discombobulated the opposition. Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey was left open-mouthed. He had to welcome the ''extraordinary figure of the March quarter''. But how to score a political point? The best he could come up with was: ''Imagine how well our country could do if we had a good government.''
That line might have cut it if said just once; repeated several times, it sounded silly, even a little desperate. It emphasised that these unanticipated numbers had undercut the opposition's negativity about the economy. ''Here in Australia, economic conditions are soft,'' Tony Abbott said on Tuesday, to find himself badly wrong on Wednesday.
Even before yesterday, the opposition knew its economic gloom line was overcooked"

Now can someone explain how they support someone like Tony Abbott and his lack of credentials?

CoodaShooda 7th Jun 2012 00:14


Now can someone explain how they support someone like Tony Abbott and his lack of credentials?
Julia Gillard, Wayne Swan, Penny Wong, Peter Garrett, Kevin Rudd, Craig Thompson, Peter Slipper, abuse of Parliament, refusal to give straight answers to direct questions, failed policies, blatant lies.......and I'm not even an Abbott "supporter":E

Now can someone please explain what labor has done to warrant support?

Lex Talionis 7th Jun 2012 01:01

"refusal to give straight answers to direct questions"
I know exactly what you are saying Cooda because I have asked several questions and have the same result!

"Now can someone please explain what labor has done to warrant support?"

Could your tell me how bad Australia is compared to the rest of the world because Joe Hockey cannot !!!!

" Shadow treasurer Joe Hockey was left open-mouthed. He had to welcome the ''extraordinary figure of the March quarter''.

To be honest I think this is a lot like the Holden/Ford rivalry.

It doesn't matter how good a car either company comes out with as there are a lot of people who will still only buy a Holden or a Ford because they have always bought that marque.

For me I look at the alternative and it is truly frightening with BA Santamaria/Tony Abbott at the helm.Of course if you are of the far right and of the same ilk you won't have a problem with him but there are a lot of people who do.

By the way someone asked about the boat people taking jobs from Australians.

In reality the real danger from illegal arrivals are those who arrive from commercial flights.These at any point number at least 10,000 and are not fleeing persecution or personal danger because of religious persecution or from anything but are definitely here in Australia illegally.

They are mainly from the UK and New Zealand as well as some from Europe but are very much illegal and not refugees but no one seems to bother about them yet they are not only taking Australian jobs but also revenue because they are working on a cash basis.As well as this it is costing the Australian tax payer a small fortune to round up and deport when they are finally caught.

If someone is a genuine refugee then we should be trying to help them but not the tens of thousands who arrived here on commercial flights and stay illegally

Buster Hyman 7th Jun 2012 01:36

The difference being that the smugglers are profiteering from risking the lives of some genuine refugees and some queue jumpers.
The one's on the Commercial flights are just plain queue jumpers...not that Gillard has any idea what to do about them either.

david1300 7th Jun 2012 02:41


Originally Posted by Lex Talionis (Post 7230792)
"refusal to give straight answers to direct questions"
I know exactly what you are saying Cooda because I have asked several questions and have the same result!

"Now can someone please explain what labor has done to warrant support?"

Could your tell me how bad Australia is compared to the rest of the world because Joe Hockey cannot !!!!...

Lex, why can't anyone explain what Labor has done to warrant support? Just like all Labor-leaning people I know and ask, this has gone just the same way - they cannot give an answer, and instead denigrate the opposition. I don't actually mind that they cannot get the message, just as Anna Bligh and Qld Labor could not get the message, because we know the end result.

But when I seriously am trying to find some reasons to enlighten me, and possibly consider broadening my views, it really is pathetic of Labor-supporters to just run this line.

Clare Prop 7th Jun 2012 02:49

I think some posters, who have a remarkably similar style, actually like to get the threads closed; sort of the pprune version of Albanese shutting down debate in the house of reps...oh wait....

Buster Hyman 7th Jun 2012 03:20

Yes, the argument is cyclic & predictable.

Their only defense is in the past (Howards fault) or in the future (what an Abbott Government would do...Ouija board assumptions). They seem unable to argue the merits of the current Government for some reason...too painful & indefensible I guess.

Andu 7th Jun 2012 05:29

Meanwhile....


Sixth asylum seeker boat in a week | The Courier-Mail


THE sixth boat in a week carrying suspected asylum seekers has been intercepted off the coast of Western Australian.
Customs vessel Botany Bay rendered assistance to the boat, west-southwest of Ashmore Islands yesterday.

The boat had 23 passengers and two crew on board.

It was initially spotted from a surveillance aircraft.

Home Affairs Minister Jason Clare said the passengers were being transferred to Christmas Island for security, health and identity checks.
No boat yesterday. Maybe “on the seventh day, they rest”?

And this, from the Sarah Henderson story on the search for Capt Imad.

We knew that Emad had gone from the Christmas Island detention centre to Brisbane and that he had also spent time in Darwin. One of his passengers told us he was scouting Darwin to see if he could bring boats directly there from Indonesia.
On a trip to Malaysia his associates told me he had boasted about his life in Australia, how the Australian government gave him everything for free. We still didn't know where that life was.

Andu 7th Jun 2012 05:39

AFP press conference currently running of Sky News announced that Capt Imad left the country on Tuesday night, and although this triggered an alert, authorities decided not to detain him, as they had no legal reason to do so.

Translation: for Capt Imad, a bit like those plucky Cockney shopkeepers in London during the Blitz, business will continue as usual.

Lex Talionis 7th Jun 2012 06:34

david1300,
My answer was in this question.
"Could your tell me how bad Australia is compared to the rest of the world because Joe Hockey cannot"
I fully understand that a lot of people here do not like Labor and as I said this is a lot like the Holden/Ford rivalry.
Joe Hockey could not but say that things were looking good for Australia.This was after the figures for March had come out not more than a day after Dr No said we were in a precarious position.Now with more than a little egg on his face Dr No cannot believe his bad luck and like Joe Hockey is struggling to find something negative to say about our economy.

What exactly about life in Australia is so bad that you would want risk it all with Tony Abbott?

I'll play the devils advocate.
What if at the time of the next Federal election after both the carbon tax and the mining tax have been in place for more than a year things are going well?

What if the sky has not fallen in?
What if the economy is doing well?

What then will the opposition do or say because if by that time we will know the result of both taxes.After the relentlessly boring statements from Dr No about the new taxes,what would he be able to say to dig himself out of the hole that he has dug for himself.

If the economy is in trouble and a multitude of business' have gone broke then the answer is obvious.Tony Abbott will walk into the Lodge with his head held high but.....

What if things are going well and all of the predictions by Dr No have proven to be baseless and false?

I have said before that I am not happy with everything that Labor has done but It worries more than that of what Tony Abbott will do.

At the moment it certainly looks like the opposition will win the next election but what will they say and how will they campaign for the election if things are looking rosy and the mining companies have not gone broke and are in fact making a handsome profit?

That is why Dr No and his supporters are more than a little worried that by the next time an election is held and all is well then all of their scaremongering will be for nought.

That is why the Liberal party and their supporters are clambering for an election now before it is too late.

CoodaShooda 7th Jun 2012 06:59

Lex

Australia is well off compared to most economies but we are starting at a very low base line. Nigeria is probably better off than Somalia but that doesn't make it paradise.

I'm watching federal pollies on tv telling me how great things are....but I'm looking at the debt they are racking up and the tax dollars they are frittering away and wondering when the day of reckoning will arrive.

No family or business can manage its affairs in this way and come out winners.

I am also looking at manufacturing, contracting and retail businesses around me and seeing how tough things are for them.

So when I hear a labor pollie, who is a demonstrated lier, tell me that things are good. I fall back on the old "believe none of what you hear and half of what you see".

I know that I'm not better off financially now than I was in 2007. Most of that is due to family circumstances - but it is not helped by a government that classifies me as a high wage earner, irrespective of the significantly higher cost of living in the NT and gives me nothing in return for my taxes other than a demand that I pay even more. Flood levy, private health insurance levy reduced, no carbon tax cost compensation etc etc.

So, regardless of the quality of the opposition, why should I give this labor mob my support?

Lex Talionis 7th Jun 2012 07:16

Cooda,

I was comparing Australia with other western industrialised nations.So with that in mind we are doing extremely well much to the chagrin of Joe Hockey and Tony Abbott.

It's been recognised that Australia with it's stimulus package did very well and if it had not the cost would have been far higher than the cost of the package itself.

"So when I hear a labor pollie, who is a demonstrated lier, tell me that things are good"

I actually do believe we have it good in Australia compared to over countries but any politician of any party will tell you that everything is good if they belong to the party in power.

We see spin every day from Labor and the Liberals so what is new?

The reality is that we do have it good in Australia so in answer to your last question the quality of the opposition is very much relevant because if they win they control the country and with the current leadership of the opposition that is a huge risk.

As I said before it has been recognised that the stimulus package worked very well and it is on record that the Liberal party said they would not have done that.We would have gone the way of other countries if the stimulus package had not been used.

It is of no use what ever to have a lot of money in the bank if everyone is unemployed.By having a surplus but with no one in a job and with businesses bankrupt kind of defeats the purpose of a surplus doesn't it?

So my question is why would I want to risk what we have by giving my support to Tony abbott?

david1300 7th Jun 2012 07:36


Originally Posted by Lex Talionis (Post 7230989)
david1300,
My answer was in this question.
"Could your tell me how bad Australia is compared to the rest of the world because Joe Hockey cannot"
I fully understand that a lot of people here do not like Labor and as I said this is a lot like the Holden/Ford rivalry.
....
What exactly about life in Australia is so bad that you would want risk it all with Tony Abbott?

I'll play the devils advocate.
What if at the time of the next Federal election after both the carbon tax and the mining tax have been in place for more than a year things are going well?

What if the sky has not fallen in?
What if the economy is doing well?

What then will the opposition do or say because if by that time we will know the result of both taxes.After the relentlessly boring statements from Dr No about the new taxes,what would he be able to say to dig himself out of the hole that he has dug for himself.

If the economy is in trouble and a multitude of business' have gone broke then the answer is obvious.Tony Abbott will walk into the Lodge with his head held high but.....

What if things are going well and all of the predictions by Dr No have proven to be baseless and false?

I have said before that I am not happy with everything that Labor has done but It worries more than that of what Tony Abbott will do.

At the moment it certainly looks like the opposition will win the next election but what will they say and how will they campaign for the election if things are looking rosy and the mining companies have not gone broke and are in fact making a handsome profit?

That is why Dr No and his supporters are more than a little worried that by the next time an election is held and all is well then all of their scaremongering will be for nought.

That is why the Liberal party and their supporters are clambering for an election now before it is too late.

Lex, thanks for the detailed reply, but I cannot anywhere in your reply find a reason to vote for Labor. Conversely, I have many reasons not to, and these are just a few:

1 - Julia Gillard is a liar. Unequivocal and simple. Before the election she stated one position, and subsequently did the opposite. Unlike other major taxation reforms that were taken to the electorate to vote on (the GST comes to mind), she should have said - "whoa, I see the public did not vote me in, let's have another election where I will stand in coalition with the Greens and we will introduce a carbon tax". We know circumstances change, but let us, the voters, vote you in on your stated policies. Don't lie to us, like Anna Bligh did in Qld re asset sales.

2 - Labor powerbrokers behind the scenes, who are not voted in, have too much say in the Labor party and Labor government. The have shown they have the ability to manipulate and bring about the dumping of an elected and serving Prime Minister ostensibly on an unpopular policy (Carbon Tax, or whatever name Rudd was dressing it up under); go to an election promising not to introduce a Carbon Tax, then introducing that very policy!

3 - Labor are not responsible Fiscal Managers. First look at their failed projects: Insulation - house fires, electrocuted workers, overclaimes for work, claims for work not even done, $millions spent auditing the process. School Halls - debacle of overcharges. Computers for schools - schools were left with the maintenance and implementation costs. $900 'stimulus' cash handouts - great for the Chinese economy as sales of imported electrical goods spiked for 2 months. Latest 'carbon tax' funds coming to people - don't even mention carbon tax in the ads, just make people more dependant on the public teat. This will cause another small consumer retail boom. Want more - I can list them if you like.

4 - Labor are not responsible Fiscal Managers - again. They were left with a huge surplus and 'funds in the bank'. they have racked up how many deficits now, and they have increased/are increasing the governments borrowing ceiling to $300BILLION.

5 - People on the street are sickened by the Unions behind Labor. They wield disproportionate power, and harbour people like Thomson and Williamson who are quite happy to spend union funds indiscriminately.

6 - Some people, not all, remember Julia Gillards role in the Bruce Wilson/AWU $1 million fraud, when she claimed she was 'young and naive'. Come on - she was a lawyer in her 30's working for a top law firm, in a sexual relationship with a client, doing his bidding. Some also remember her role in (arguably) wrecking Craig Emmersons marraige.

Of course there is far more, but will stop there with a short and recent history lesson. Queensland has just voted Labor to it's biggest election defeat despite Anna Bligh having had the opportunity to become a very public and apparently competent leader through our natural disasters in 2010. We voters are not stupid - we remembered her lies and her manipulation, and the ineptness of her government (Health Payroll debacle - sound anything like school halls, insulation scheme? - are fiscal policies that Labor just cannot manage). We sent them all where they belong, and it was very good to see the smug treasurer Andrew Fraser and her cabinet disappear into obscurity, just as many federal Labor politicians will at the next election.

I am not interested in your role as devils advocate. I can make my own assessment of Abbott and his people. I have even less interest in your hypothetical scenarios.

Remember this - Just as the people in Qld were prepared to give Campbell Newman a go, even though he was not even an elected parliamentarian, and they voted in over 40 first-time MP's (from memory - I'd have to check the numbers). They did this because they looked at people and policies, and said 'this Labor government is BAD, and we believe the opposition, warts and all, will do better'. And didn't Labor try and find warts and all - happily smearing not only Newman, but his wife and family, and trying every dirty political trick in the Labor playbook.

Now, please try again - what has Labor done that I should consider, that may make me want to rethink, and re-elect them ON THEIR RECORD.


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