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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

bosnich71 21st May 2014 05:44

Saltie & Worrals ... the class warfare slant in Labours attacks etc. etc.

I don't know what is happening in your part of Oz but down here in Victoria we are now getting daily demos against the Liberal government. Most of the demonstrators seem to be indulging in a bit of class warfare judging by the placards etc.take a look. The P.m.'s visit to Geelong has been cancelled due to "security fears". Makes you proud to be Australian doesn't it ?
As I've said earlier the Left, the unions and fellow travellers don't do Democracy.

CoodaShooda 21st May 2014 06:41

I wonder if the protesters will ever come to realize that media reports of violent clashes against authority turns the middle ground, swinging voter against their cause.

And guess where elections are won and lost.

Are we sure the protest leaders aren't liberal plants? :E

Worrals in the wilds 21st May 2014 07:32


The P.m.'s visit to Geelong has been cancelled due to "security fears". Makes you proud to be Australian doesn't it ?
Security or popularity? :hmm:

As previously stated I don't condone the protests where MPs got jostled. Apart from anything else I think Cooda's point comes into play. However, when the relevant minister has directed universities to be 'more like America' I'm not surprised that there are student protests.

I don't recall many complaints about the various right wing 'ditch the witch' protests against the previous federal government. Freedom of speech seemed to get mentioned a lot wrt the abusive placards :}... surely that works both ways. Anyone who wants to organize a pro-budget march is as free to do so as the student lefties were to organize theirs, complete with rude signs. As the High Court has repeatedly stated, being annoying is not an offence. That doesn't apply to assaults (and nor should it) but the TV coverage of Brisbane's NUS organized protest seemed orderly enough. Of course the small group of dissenters complained about the lack of free speech because they got heckled, but too bad so sad :E. Maybe they should have rounded up some more supporters...


We already have a skills shortage wrt doctors, nurses, engineers and a number of other professions. Making tertiary education more expensive isn't going to help that, particularly wrt Med which is generally only offered by prestigious (ie expensive) universities. Of course doctors tend to make the money back because they are well paid (once they survive the intern process) as do engineers, but it's not necessarily the case with scientists and nurses. The Gina brigade would just ship them in on 457 visas and pay them a pittance but again, I haven't noticed a positive vibe around here wrt increasing immigration either.

As for democracy, few to none of these cuts were mentioned prior to the election. That's not surprising to any Queenslander, because the exact same thing happened when the state LNP government took office up here. In fairness the Gillard and Bligh Labor governments did exactly the same thing, which IMO was a big factor in their demise.

I simply don't buy the 'we didn't know it was that bad' argument, at either the state or federal level. Both major parties have enough stooges in the relevant treasury departments to know what the state of play is. :suspect: If a few rowdy students are gunning for a class war then so be it; I reckon the federal government's recent statements have been far more class warlike than anything the students have rustled up, or in fact anything I've seen in about twenty years of following Australian politics. Hockey says that the age of entitlement is over; I'd never considered people who were old, disabled, poor or sick as 'entitled.' I thought they were unfortunate.

500N 21st May 2014 07:51

I admire them for protesting but seriously, sitting on the tram tracks in Melbourne in peak hour
is a sure way to get the Police involved straight away.

These guys seriously need to learn how to protest where you don't end up
being on the wrong end of the law in short order.

owen meaney 21st May 2014 08:04

Reference Tanya Plibersek, a great woman and politician a credit to the Labor Party.
Reference Jackie Lambie, you are sh1tting me if you believe taxing the banks' super profits is a bad idea.
Reference the Defence Minister, a great man and advocate for the personell in the defence force. Heard him getting up the media about them pilloring the navy's handling of illegals.

owen meaney 21st May 2014 08:10


These guys seriously need to learn how to protest where you don't end up being on the wrong end of the law in short order.
I would think that was their idea, more newsworthy and free advertising for the cause comrade:ok:

500N 21st May 2014 08:40

Owen

I could think of better ways.

Worrals in the wilds 21st May 2014 08:54


These guys seriously need to learn how to protest where you don't end up being on the wrong end of the law in short order.
I guess that's one way to learn.:uhoh:
I don't think many of them are seasoned protestors. Contrary to popular opinion most uni campuses have been fairly peaceful places during the last decade or so, and some of them (such as UQ) are positively right wing. I think the recent Victorian protestors have displayed a certain amount of naivety wrt to effective protesting. It remains to be seen how quickly they learn...:}

gupta 21st May 2014 09:01

Owen

Never said taxing the banks was a specifically bad idea. I was referring to Jacqui Lambie pulling random untested ideas out of her ear.

For a rep of PUP she was certainly in favour of more government intervention/legislation ("They" should make a law)

Worrals in the wilds 21st May 2014 09:50


I was referring to Jacqui Lambie pulling random untested ideas out of her ear.
Minority/Independent 101, although there are a few notable exceptions such as Xenaphon. Given the next Senate makeup (Every Kid Got a Prize :uhoh:) we should expect lots more funky stuff from the aforesaid kids over the next few years. :ouch:

rh200 21st May 2014 10:58


We already have a skills shortage wrt doctors, nurses, engineers and a number of other professions
And you need to look into why that is. In some cases its sociological reasons, theres no shortage of university graduates, so much so there's a shortage of base trades.

I was discussing the nurse issue with someone the other day, and there's two factors involved in that. In our new equal society, where we have this imaginative view there are equal numbers of men and woman, in practice it isn't, an never will be that way.

Males statistically don't want to be Nurses, same as being child care workers. That essentially leaves the profession with needing to get most of its personnel from the female population. As a side effect of the present system, a lot of females want to be doctors ( A good thing) instead of nurses.

As for not enough doctors and engineers, I suspect its just too much hard work for the return, and its easier to go get some nothing degree that society would be better not having.

bosnich71 21st May 2014 11:01

Worrals .... " most Uni campuses have been fairly peaceful places during the last decade or so".
Agreed,but then for six of those ten years there was a labour "government" wasn't there.
I'm afraid when some 16 to 20 year old stands up at a University and starts bellowing through a megaphone the likes of,"get out of my University,you have no right to be here" etc. at an elected M.P. then I believe that perhaps that "student" should do a bit of research into a couple of subjects ....they could try 'university' and 'democracy' for a start.
And as for the "Ditch the Witch" stuff,how many times did that happen? I'll hazard a guess,nowhere as often as the renta mob have turned out in the past few months.

chuboy 21st May 2014 11:52


Originally Posted by rh200 (Post 8486803)
As for not enough doctors and engineers, I suspect its just too much hard work for the return, and its easier to go get some nothing degree that society would be better not having.

Far from it. My understanding is that while we need more doctors, the medical associations themselves cap how many people they train up so as not to flood the market and reduce wages. Looking after their own. There is extremely high demand for places in medical degrees.

Engineers Australia on the other hand is doing the opposite, still talking up the so-called engineering shortage when there are dozens of unemployed experienced engineers being laid off in QLD and WA as the mining boom starts winding down. Australia's own job outlook tells the real story for the profession. Meanwhile engineering graduates like myself get f*cked even harder as companies have all but stopped taking on newbies to train up.

Take, as an example, Orica. Manufactures chemicals in Australia on four or five sites around the country. This year they took on just ten graduates across all disciplines. When I graduated recently there were nearly 150 graduates in my discipline alone :{

Which leads me to my big gripe with the budget, the 6 month wait to get Newstart. Way to treat people who paid a motza to "learn", only to discover that when it comes to "earning", it isn't enough to just want a job :suspect:

IMHO the policy is backwards - they should be giving people 6 months after they become unemployed/finish study to keep them afloat and find work and only after proving they could not do so should you wean them off. Of course it's not really fair even then, given there is not as much work out there as the folks living in the ivory tower down in Canberra would have you believe. Or maybe the LNP's idea of vision for the future is a nation of degree-qualified under-30s working at Big W and delivering junk mail to make ends meet?


Originally Posted by bosnich71 (Post 8483603)
Chuboy .. I was attempting to make the point that,so far,the Labour Party has not come up with any alternative to the Liberal Budget which would make one think that they would just carry on where they left off some months ago before the general election.A situation which led to them getting the push then.

Fair point, but it's par for the course from the opposition party. Tony managed to win government doing the same.

alisoncc 21st May 2014 17:32

War in Australia - Social Cohesion
 
Rarely choose to post here - too many right wing fanboys who believe that more firepower is the answer to social unrest, and who far prefer to attack the individual than actually give thought to the implications of the current budget on social cohesion.

Those whom Abbott/Hockey are seeking to reduce to absolute poverty are the same ages as those of my generation and immediately before who went to WAR. And war will come to Australia.

Do the dickheads who are currently running the country really think that those in their late teens and early twenties are going to just sit by the roadside and starve with nothing? Limited employment opportunities, increased education costs, no income to provide for the basics of life, whilst being well aware of the "have's" in society. Paying then an allowance by whatever name, is a damm sight cheaper than keeping them in prison. Because that is as sure as hell what is going to happen.

So build your perimeter fences higher, stock up with munitions and prepare for war because Abbott/Hockey have set in motion the unleashing of a generation on society who have previously fought all other conflicts. A generation that will have little choice in taking by force or criminal intent what they need to survive. And survive they will because that is what humans do.

Western societies like Australia seek to maintain control of their citizens by taking "things" from them. If you are caught speeding in a car they take money from you - fines. Do it often enough and they will take away your licence - right to drive. Cause accidents and they will take away your liberty - prison. In some countries if you kill someone they may take away your life. Such societies have no control over people who have nothing they can take away. Once a government creates a minority with nothing they can take away it no longer has any control over them.

A much favoured expression from a few decades ago attributed to one Che Guevara was "Those who have nothing to lose have nothing to lose". Think about that in the context of Abbott/Hockeys plans for Australian society.

.

Fubaar 21st May 2014 19:51

How many lattes did you and your mates go through as you all agreed upon that grim 'The Road' future, Allison?

Whilst I'll accept there is some basis in what you say, what sticks in the craw of many of the right wing reactionaries you so love to denigrate here is that 'basic survival' for far too many of these poor downtrodden masses you champion here involves the latest smart phone with unlimited download, the latest plasma television, holidays to Bali, and all paid for by government benefits.

This right wing reactionary asks where do they think the money to supply these 'absolute necessities' comes from?

500N 21st May 2014 19:56

Alison


Rarely choose to post here - too many right wing fanboys who believe that more firepower is the answer to social unrest, and who far prefer to attack the individual than actually give thought to the implications of the current budget on social cohesion.
We aren't that bad ! Most would at least shout a warning first :O ;)

You and your views are always welcome :ok:

BenThere 21st May 2014 20:01

And the

Those whom Abbott/Hockey are seeking to reduce to absolute poverty
citation immediately set off my own personal alarm bells.

Could one possibly believe that the politicians he is against are actually seeking to reduce citizens to poverty? Is that the plaint of the Left?

I respect the side opposite to me more than that. I cling to the belief that we all want the best for our societies, but have differing views as to how to get there, which we are free to discuss here for now.

owen meaney 21st May 2014 20:19

Alisoncc

Those whom Abbott/Hockey are seeking to reduce to absolute poverty are the same ages as those of my generation and immediately before who went to WAR.
My boy and girl are in this age group, and agree that they and their cohort would fight to survive as you suggest.

Fubaar, you are talking about cashed up "bogans" not folk living on New Start or Youth Allowance. There are people rorting the system, but they are in the very small minority.
As for trips to Bali, from my experience as soon as you depart AUstralia you lose your benefit.
The story of "dole bludgers" living the high life is an urban myth, same as the old story of immigrants receiving unusual largess from the Australian government.

500N 21st May 2014 20:27

"same as the old story of immigrants receiving unusual largess from the Australian government".

Maybe not largesse but full on rental payments etc.


"As for trips to Bali, from my experience as soon as you depart AUstralia you lose your benefit."

Since when ?


"The story of "dole bludgers" living the high life is an urban myth,"

Maybe not dole bludgers but those on benefits. Have yet to see one
without a new TV.

owen meaney 21st May 2014 20:46


Since when ?
Has always been you have to be available for work


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