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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

500N 9th Apr 2014 06:45

"Can deportation back to a culture the would obviously feel more comfortable in, be arranged, I wonder?"

Too good for them first up.

1. Take their manhoSod away by castration.
2. Bum eff them with a stick with pork on it - or get a sydneyite to do it !!!
3. Release photos
4. Deport them wearing clothes with the photos printed on them.

They won't forget it !


They don't like being humiliated, especially if their culture knows about it.

rh200 9th Apr 2014 06:45


We have a real problem in Aus with the ME who do this sort of thing,
starting with that crowd / family who ended up in jail (Sydney).
To be fair, its a standard society evolution of values sort of thing. Many moons ago that was a prevailing attitude in our culture, though I'm not sure to that extreme. In some sense you still get it with a lot of males, but they just don't act on it or take advantage of it if the situation arises.


The simple point is if we are going to import significant people from other cultures then theres particular side effects of that which need to be taken into account.

Ken Borough 9th Apr 2014 06:50

If the culprits are found, tried, convicted and sentenced, they will be deported to the place from whence they came provided they are not Australian citizens. Should they be Australians, we are stuck with them. :*

The way some ethnic groups regard women is abominable. Education is the answer what can society do when it all starts at home where little or no example is given? Maybe the issue will be resolved in a generation or two but what do we do in the meantime to protect innocent and vulnerable women? :E

500N 9th Apr 2014 06:56

"Many moons ago that was a prevailing attitude in our culture, though I'm not sure to that extreme."

The odd one maybe but not the prevailing attitude.

And certainly not the attitude from 1980 on between the various cultures in Melbourne - Greek, Italian, Maltese, Aussie etc etc - yes, they all tried to knock off every girl they met but not rape them. And that was probably the case from 1950's onwards when they all came out.

"The simple point is if we are going to import significant people from other cultures then theres particular side effects of that which need to be taken into account."

Sorry, BS big time. WE don't need to take into account anything.
They want to live here, behave like decent people. Don't like it, Eff off
or better still, ship them off without any come back. Rendition flights at night out of Richmond AFB :rolleyes:

Ken Borough 9th Apr 2014 07:08


And certainly not the attitude from 1980 on between the various cultures in Melbourne - Greek, Italian, Maltese, Aussie etc etc - yes, they all tried to knock off every girl they met but not rape them. And that was probably the case from 1950's onwards when they all came out.
500N,

That's a tad harsh! The desire to get into a lady's wants was not limited to male migrants. I seem to recall that that was the wish of almost every young hot-blooded Australian born male.

Check out media reports of recent times: to me it seems that there are just as many Australians convicted of sexual crimes against women as there are of other nationalities.

SOPS 9th Apr 2014 07:10

500N has got my vote:ok: You want to live here, fine. But you do it under Australian norms. Or just go straight back to where you, or even your last generation family came from. Problem with that? How about a nice tropical holiday on Manus with a few of your countrymen? I'm sure that could be arranged, quietly in the middle of the night, if needed.

rh200 9th Apr 2014 07:38


The odd one maybe but not the prevailing attitude.
Your not getting it, the way I put it mainly. Though actual rapes did happen using that excuse, there was an attitude prevailent around the "she was asking for it bit in a lot of circumstances. Usually this was around things like attire, getting to drunk etc.


"The simple point is if we are going to import significant people from other cultures then theres particular side effects of that which need to be taken into account."
You miss the point again. To fix the problem you need to understand it. By taking into account, I mean its all forseable, and measures need to be taken to actively and agressively address the problem. Not just stick our heads in the sound dreaming of multiculturalism. It is a cultural problem and needs to be addressed as such.

500N 9th Apr 2014 07:55

Thanks

OK, understand.

MagnusP 9th Apr 2014 12:37


there are just as many Australians convicted of sexual crimes against women as there are of other nationalities.
And as a percentage of population?

Worrals in the wilds 9th Apr 2014 12:46


It seems we may have a culture of men on our hands that see ( western ) women as fair game at all costs.
So charge them, convict them and lock them up.


Check out media reports of recent times: to me it seems that there are just as many Australians convicted of sexual crimes against women as there are of other nationalities.

Adrian Bayley, Dennis Ferguson, Robert (dolly) Dunn, Barrie Watts and Valmae Beck, Brett Cowan, Simon Gittany, Max Sica...
The honour :yuk: roll goes on...and on. :sad:

Yes, we have a culture of men who see women as fair game. That culture is ours. That doesn't mean that the majority of men in our culture see rape or murder as acceptable, because they don't. However, there is an active minority that do, as there is within our immigrant cultures. That doesn't make the majority within those cultures complicit, any more than any of you condone the actions of the Anglo-Europeans above.

I've included one woman (who died of heart disease, which was far better than she deserved) because IMO it's important to remember that divergent behaviour crosses all classes, nationalities and both genders.

Rape and murder are not normal behaviour in any decent human culture. The immigrants have their offenders as do we. We need to work together to identify and isolate them, not waste time claiming cultural superiority. Many recent Australians came here to get away from this sort of crap.

Ken Borough 9th Apr 2014 12:58

Worralls,

Very well put! :D:D:D. Only an ignorant fool would dare disagree with your post.

500N 9th Apr 2014 13:17

Ken

You misunderstood, I was trying to say that not all migrants who came to this country did what those in Sydney did as opposed to Aussies weren't doing the same !!! LOL

All sides / nationalities had people convicted of rape, just IMHO not like the way that lot in Sydney do it, like it's a right !!!

Worrals in the wilds 9th Apr 2014 13:35

Thanks Ken :ok:, but anyone can disagree if they want. We discuss, we disagree, we put our opinions forward because this is a civlised place.

I'm not the only woman (or person) in South East Queensland to give this issue thought over the past few days.
Sophie Collombet killing: Man fronts court over rape and murder of French student in Brisbane - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

For this woman South Brisbane was not a civilised place :yuk:. It was a place where she was bashed to death after she got off a bus and started to walk home. She never made it. A man (whitefella FWIW) has been arrested, there is evidence, the police have done an admirable job but... she's still dead.

I've walked these streets. I know Peel Street rather well; it's home to most of Brisbane's trade union offices. The Art Gallery and Museum are close by and I've walked out of there at sunset. So have my mother, aunts and many female friends. For twenty years I have walked through Brisbane City without trepidation; maybe talked to a few drunks and weirdos and given away a few cigarettes (never menthols, even deros knock them back :}), but never in fear.

Would I do this tonight? Maybe not. Maybe I'd call a cab from the front door, or accept the offer from a male friend to walk me to the bus. Not because of immigrants (they're probably driving the cab and the bus :\) but because of weirdos. The same random weirdos who are charged with killing Eunji Ban and now Sophie Collombet.

They're not ring-ins (much as we'd like to hope otherwise); they're ours. Of course they may both be found innocent. Maybe both women were murdered by crazed newcomers. However, that's not the way the evidence is pointing.

The evidence points towards mental illness, drug abuse and the system's failure to control people who are victims of these conditions. People whose relatives begged the authorities to do something, only to be ignored.

I'll miss walking the streets of Brisbane (and I mean this in an honourable way ;)). I'll miss strolling through West End, the City and the Valley un-noticed and generally invisible :suspect: between ten and midnight. I did it for years; post gig, post party, post kebab. I talked to many people, saw many things and never felt fear. It was my city and I walked its streets, smoking a cigarette, drinking a takeaway coffee and taking in the sights and sounds of the place.

These days? Dunno :uhoh:. That's nothing to do with Muslims, and everything to do with the locals. Too many drugs, too much grog and way too much aggro.
Maybe that town is now gone, along with the refinery and the biscuit factory. :sad:


All sides / nationalities had people convicted of rape, just IMHO not like the way that lot in Sydney do it, like it's a right !!!
I think you just nailed the definition of rape, assault and murder.

7x7 9th Apr 2014 23:48

Worrals, you say the police did a brilliant job in tracking down the man it would seem might be responsible for Sophie Collombet's murder. What struck me was the way they tracked him down - he went in to Centre Link at Coffs Harbour looking for his fortnightly 'fix' of gummit handouts.

I'll not disagree that we have a far too high number of home born and bred murderers and rapists in our society, all too many of them of blue eyed, blond haired Anglo ethnicity. In 'less enlightened' times, not all that long ago, quite a large number of these people would have been committed to mental institutions and would never be free to roam the streets with us and their personal demons.

However, that's not the way it is today. Someone in government has come to the conclusion that such people have the right to share the streets with the rest of us. I suspect that the main reason for reaching this conclusion might have more to do with the money saved by closing and not having to staff all those mental institutions, but let's not go there.

Where I will disagree with Ken and those of his political persuasion is the almost unique situation of young males of "Mediterranean and Middle Eastern appearance". (And I hasten to say that I make this observation as someone who lived the best part of twenty years in the Middle East.)

The predominant religion of young men who match the rather carefully designed not to offend description given above is one that many with liberal Left leanings also go to extraordinary lengths not to mention in unpleasant situations for fear of offending members of that religion. (Some, a little less kind, might say that these people avoid mentioning that religion because of very soundly based fears that some members of that religion who will take offence might threaten and even harm them, but let's not go there either right now.)

Now, where was I? Oh yes, disagreeing with Ken.

I cannot think of any other religious group where a disturbingly large proportion of the young men of that religion are taught - quite literally on their MOTHER'S knee - (note: that's "mother's", not "father's" knee) - that their religion teaches that it is quite acceptable for their sons to do things - unspeakable things - to young women not of their religion that are haram (forbidden) to be done to young women of their own religion.

To those who'll abject to that last sweeping - and in their eyes, obviously totally incorrect - comment, let me cite a rather well-reported incident right here in Australia. When the brave young woman went public about being gang raped by the Scaff (sp?) brothers in Western Sydney, she told the court that after enduring some hours being raped by a succession of young males of "Mediterranean and Middle Eastern appearance", she escaped and begged for help from a middle aged woman of "Mediterranean and Middle Eastern appearance" who she encountered.

The woman, rather than helping her, alerted the young males of "Mediterranean and Middle Eastern appearance" of her escape and the young woman was forced to endure another eight hours of abuse before they tired of her and allowed her to go.

There are allegedly numerous other young women in Sydney who endured similar indignities in very similar circumstances over a number of years who did not come forward and there have been numerous reports from the UK of a succession of almost identical gang rapes involving groups of men of Pakistani origin and young - sometimes very young - Anglo females.

The gang rapes often follow a similar pattern. The girl goes willingly with one man/boy, thinking she will have sex with one partner, but then that partner makes a call on his mobile phone to invite any number of friends to follow him.

Such things happen on the fringes of all societies. However, I can't think of any other society where such behaviour is accepted by many - including the women - of that society. The only other group of recent times that openly accepted that their self-declared superior status gave them carte blanche to do terrible things to people of other societies was Nazi Germany (and to a far, far lesser degree, White South Africa during the worst excesses of Apartheid).

Neither of these last two groups would be even remotely acceptable to the liberal Left to share any part of today's Australia. However, for some reason I cannot even begin to fathom, damn near every member of that same liberal Left looks upon the group from which the young males of "Mediterranean and Middle Eastern appearance" belongs to as being almost beyond criticism.

bosnich71 10th Apr 2014 00:16

7X7 ..... well said!

Saltie 10th Apr 2014 00:40

War in Australia (any Oz Politics)
 
Re 7x7's post: Larry Pickering's latest offering about a gang rape by Muslim youths on Bendigo is worth reading. The one who filmed the whole episode "had no case to answer".

Ken Borough 10th Apr 2014 01:04

7x7

I find that your post, insofar as it is directed to me, completely misrepresents and is contrary to my views and further say that it is personally offensive. If you think and opine that I condone the attitudes of a certain group of males and their abhorrent behaviour towards women in this country, you are sadly mistaken. You are so far off the mark that I won't waste time to ask for a withdrawal and apology. :E

What I will say is this: just as Catholic priests and brothers collectively have to wear the shame of the terrible deeds of a few, so do do members of other minority groups. That is not only a tragedy but also a sad reflection on the ignorance of those who tar everyone with the same brush. Punish the guilty but don't assume everyone from their cohort is the same.

Worrals in the wilds 10th Apr 2014 01:26


In 'less enlightened' times, not all that long ago, quite a large number of these people would have been committed to mental institutions and would never be free to roam the streets with us and their personal demons.
Agree. I think that's been a big part of the problem. Community based care might have worked if the various governments actually funded it properly, but that never happened. There are no votes in mental health care. :yuk:

As for the rest you make some interesting points, and I agree wrt the role of older women. Older women are often far more misognynist than men, particularly when it comes to younger women 'knowing their place' and being 'no better than they should be'. This is also a problem in our own culture, but the cows have less power here.


I cannot think of any other religious group where a disturbingly large proportion of the young men of that religion are taught - quite literally on their MOTHER'S knee - (note: that's "mother's", not "father's" knee) - that their religion teaches that it is quite acceptable for their sons to do things - unspeakable things - to young women not of their religion that are haram (forbidden) to be done to young women of their own religion.
I the Hindu Indians also need to get their house in order with this, though fortunately Australian Indians haven't brought the gang rape tradition with them. The difference in India is that they're happy to rape their own women but generally those of a lower caste, so it amounts to the same thing in the end. Also in India, it's often older women who enable this behaviour and excuse it after it happens.

You are correct to say that there's been a lot of apologism from the left wrt Islamic crime in Australia. That's partly been because they tend to vote Labor, and partly from a desire to treat everyone equally. I've got no problem with that, but unfortunately it got translated into 'ignore the crime gangs, sexual assaults and drug trade because otherwise we'll lose votes', particularly in Sydney. That has left these criminals and their families with a big sense of entitlement.

The trend has reversed in recent times, but there's a lot of ground to make up. The Lebanese crims should have been targeted and wound up just as the Italian, Chinese and Vietnamese crime gangs were. By not doing so at the time, the state governments have allowed them to fester and grow.

For all that, I still agree with the following;

Punish the guilty but don't assume everyone from their cohort is the same.

500N 10th Apr 2014 01:30


The Lebanese crims should have been targeted and wound up just as the Italian, Chinese and Vietnamese crime gangs were. By not doing so at the time, the state governments have allowed them to fester and grow.
Courtesy of the change from hard nose, Mick Miller policing to
the lefty, softly softly "Community policing" of the big one !

Which thankfully has now changed back to black and white policing :ok:


(Mick Miller was a Vic Police Commissioner)

Worrals in the wilds 10th Apr 2014 01:37

Good. There's a time for community policing and a time for kicking in doors. Community policing has worked well with the Sudanese community in Brisbane, who didn't have things like drivers licenses back home and didn't realise that you need one here. As being pulled over by the cops in Sudan is generally hazardous to health they weren't real keen on stopping for the cops here, either. :eek:

The coppers ran a big education campaign, got some African liaison officers and did a lot of work to get everyone used to the Australian standard. It worked pretty well, though there are still issues with domestic violence.

However, that's not the effective way to treat drug traffickers and gang rapists (whatever their culture) and trying to do so failed dismally and made the coppers look week. My understanding was that it wasn't even their idea, but came from the political flunkies above them.


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