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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Captain Dart 27th Mar 2014 05:58

Some of those 'old farts' put their lives on the line for Ken's freedom to post rubbish on the internet.

Ken is now on my 'ignore' list.

500N 27th Mar 2014 06:04

I was wondering if anyone was going to comment on Ken's words.

My estimation of him has gone below gutter level !

All the people I ever met at the RSL when I was a member
were top notch people.

Ken Borough 27th Mar 2014 06:04

I'm sorry, people. It was not meant to be offensive: I should have used 'blokes' instead. Mea maxima culpa. I have edited the post. :ok:

rh200 27th Mar 2014 06:15

Australia is a proud and independent nation. At least it was the last time I checked. That being so, why should we have ANY form of foreign honours, as are the Imperial system/collection of the United Kingdom? It's time to move on: we've been autonomous for more than 113 years.
Same half baked argument for the Republic. Knights or the mystic of knights have been steeped in tradition for centuarys. Now we all know the true reality of myth, but thats what it is.

This is why a knighthood is suppodsedly a great honor. Some people are just so insecure in themselves have such a chip on their shoulder they will do anything to purge out of the system, any connection with our history.

Frankely it reminds me of the not so grown up teenagers who go out of their way and exactly the opposite that their parents want, just to spite them.

People who are secure within them selves etc. know where we are as a nation.

That would be under the Americans skirt:E Sorry couldn't help myself.

500N 27th Mar 2014 06:23

The Cultural cringe we have in this country, the hate of the tall poppy,
the not wanting people to get recognised if they are public figures.

Re the old imperial awards, I think you'd be surprised how many modern soldiers know about the old awards. All the messes and corridors of units are lined with photos of old soldiers with them on. WO2 Ray Simpson, VC was the central photo in my mess.

Ken Borough 27th Mar 2014 06:35


At least so far as this person concerned, there is no cultural cringe, or hatred of tall poppies, nor lack of recognition of people in high places. What I say is 'let's do it our way!'. There's absolutely be need to ape anyone else's system; this can be done while recognising our past historical ties. Bear in mind that a significant proportion of our population, unlike you and me, do not have any ties to the 'Mother Country'. No one can neither deny nor forget these ties but surely we are mature enough as a nation to do our own thing. I'm sure everyone who inhabits Westminster, Whitehall, Clarence House, Kensington Palace or the Big House at the end of The Mall would give a proverbial when this country does it 'our way'.

500N 27th Mar 2014 06:44

"No one can neither deny nor forget these ties but surely we are mature enough as a nation to do our own thing."

Sounds to me like change for change sake, so we "look" bigger, more grown up etc.

OK, I know the Queen said the debate on the Republic showed us becoming a more mature nation and I am not adverse to change, yes I am a Monarchist but not as much as I once was (and apart from being British by birth, the two oaths I swore were to HM The Queen).

Re the Republic, give me a real, viable alternative that can't be corrupted by Pollies in the future and I will seriously look at it.

Re the Knights / Dames, not sure it was the best move by TA but they are internationally recognised and do carry a lot of weight.

I also agree with whoever said that very few people know what AC, AM, AO, OAM are, the only reason I do is I know quite a few people who have them and also follow the military side of honours every year.

John Eacott 27th Mar 2014 08:44

Originally Posted by Ken Borough (Post 8403657)
Let the old farts at the RSL

Ken, would you have the time to join us at the Dawn Service at Mt Macedon and then the gunfire breakfast at my RSL (Woodend)?

You'll find a lot of young whippersnappers with more fruit salad than any of the old farts.

And us old farts ride up to the cross on our m'bikes at 04:00, rain hail or snow.

Later in the morning is another service in the main street at Woodend, still with the same old farts and the young whippersnappers. Plus my 91 year old Dad will be leading the Odd Bods marching to the Shrine as always, those remaining who went to war night after night over the Reich in defence of our Commonwealth.

Yes, I know that you apologised and changed the wording but I am entitled to take exception to you wanting a pop at the RSL because you hold anti-monarchist views.


Ken Borough 27th Mar 2014 08:58


As much as I like to visit that part of the world that's south of the Murray, I won't be anywhere near Oz on Anzac Day. I therefore will have to decline your invitation. Perhaps that's a good thing?

Three things:

1. I thought that I had changed the wording in my earlier post to reflect a more appropriate term.

2. I know that many of the whippersnippers have a fair serve of fruit salad - I've seen that myself when attending functions also attended by members of the ADF. Has there been an increasing number of awards being created for ADF personnel ?

3. I was not having a 'shot' at the RSL. Rather, I was describing a point of view that some hold and who have every right to hold that view. That is not denied.

bosnich71 27th Mar 2014 09:04

Ken and others .... am I missing something but aren't the Sirs and Dames announced by Abbott a purely Australian thing and nothing to do with "Imperial Honours" ?

Ken Borough 27th Mar 2014 09:10


Yes, they are an Australian honour and the top award of the Order of Australia. They have nil connection with Ímperial Honours except in name only. Therein for many is the problem!

500N 27th Mar 2014 09:12


We have had at least 4 different wars / police actions in the last 10 years,
Each has its own campaign medal plus un medals so someone who went Timor, Iraq, afghan is likely to have two rows.

You may be right but I think they are still approved by the queen.

bosnich71 27th Mar 2014 09:32

I asked the question ref. the new Sirs etc. merely because various letters pages and blog entries have used the decision by Abbott to bring out that tiresome trait of some Aussies to use it as an excuse for a bit/lot of Pom bashing.
At the end of the day Britain is not the only country to award honours such as these,France and Italy come to mind for example but we rarely hear of anything negative about that.
500N .... if it is indeed an Australian award then it really is b****r all to do with H.M. or anyone else in U.K.

500N 27th Mar 2014 09:36

More AUssies would have a US Legion of merit than a knight or a dame !

Ken Borough 27th Mar 2014 09:50


It is a fact that some other countries have knighthoods in one form or another. However, I've not heard anyone in France, for example, who has been awarded the Legion of Honor called 'Sir'or 'Dame'.

The honors in Australia are conferred I believe by the Governor-General as representative of HMQ, our Head of State. Before TA could proceed with the reintroduction of AKs and ADs he had to have Letters Patent signed by HMQ, again as our HoS.

Judging by the discussions, he's managed to take the race hate laws and other more significant issues from the front pages. He is just as cunning as his mentor. I am surprised that the Govt's decision to take a piddling couple of hundred dollars a year from the orphans of those soldiers killed in Afghanistan has attracted such little attention and criticism. How mean and misreable is this bunch, especially as it is ever-ready to wrap itself in khaki and the flag. I believe this measure saves the government not much more than $250,000 a year. Perhaps we have a budget emergency after all?

500N 27th Mar 2014 09:53


I have heard some discussion on it. A lot of people are not happy.

bosnich71 27th Mar 2014 10:50

Ken .... the Legion of Honour has five classes the most common of which is 'Chevalier' ..... which I believe translates as 'Knight' so although the French do not use the honourific "Sir" they do use it's French equivalent.
Napoleon got rid of all Royal honours but soon formed his own after crowning himself Emperor. As he once said...."You call these baubles,well,it is with baubles that men are led".
While the "new" titles of Sir and Dame may well be conferred by letters patent signed by HMQ she does so as the head of state of Australia and that has b*****r all to do with Britain,a point which seems to be lost on some of the internet neanderthals.( not you Ken,I hasten to add).
It must be said that there do seem to be strict guidelines with regard to award of the Legion of Honour and the next 4 grades as to length of service to the State etc. which bears favourable comparision with the scattergun method used for awards of Knighthoods in U.K.

bosnich71 27th Mar 2014 11:10

Just to lighten up the debate ......

It will be "Earth Hour" this Saturday evening so I urge everyone who does not subscribe to this Greenie nonsense to switch on all their house lights,all electrical appliances,central heating etc. and just celebrate electricity generated from good old coal.

Ken Borough 27th Mar 2014 11:27

There'll be nuffink done in this establishment that will interfere with one's enjoyment of watching Sydney tear Collingwood apart! :}

500N 27th Mar 2014 11:38

"celebrate electricity generated from good old coal."

At a vastly cheaper and unsubsidized cost than "Green power" !

With you on this one Bosnich.

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