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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

500N 10th Feb 2014 06:47

I think Victoria and SA are in for a bit of a torrid time in the next few years
with the closure of the car plants.

The only good thing is the advance warning that is being given.

Worrals in the wilds 10th Feb 2014 07:58

The RC was a foregone conclusion once the Libs won the last election. At least it may establish the size of the problem (and there has been a problem), which contrary to the Murdoch press' anti-union fervour does not include every unionist in the country. If people have been running rorts then they need to be held to account.

However, I think it's unlikely that any big businesses will be tainted by this, even if they're up to their necks in it. Expecting a Coalition government to investigate big business is as likely as expecting a Labor government to investigate unions :suspect:. I also agree with Ken re the choice of senators, and predict that when it comes to media coverage and government PR spin, the commission will conveniently overshadow them winding back as many worker entitlements in the FWA as the government they think they can get away with.

The vast majority of these unions have not been accused of thuggery, rorting or wrongdoings.
Unions | directory.actu.org.au

For whatever reason, the bulk of recent allegations have been against affiliated unions from the ALP's Right faction in NSW and Victoria, though the Victorian CFMEU is (I think :confused:) Left.

7x7 10th Feb 2014 08:58

The 12 year old marrying the 26 year old gets curiouser and curiouser.

The Muslim convert father of the 12-year-old girl at the centre of a child sex case following her “marriage” to a 26-year-old foreigner confessed his unhappiness at their union, but said “it was not my decision”.

But the fifth-generation Australian man, who allowed the pair to be married by an imam in his Hunter Valley home on January 12, now says he fears she is going to “die” from a broken heart.
Source: Tim Blair blog

I wonder, with Dad (and Mum?) not being a recent arrival who could claim ignorance of the law, whether this will cause the legal system to deal differently with him than if he'd been a new arrival?

priapism 10th Feb 2014 09:07

It should be pointed out to the likes of Ken B that there is a huge difference between a RC and police investigation. Even Larry pointed this out today. A police investigation cannot force people to give evidence - a Royal Commission can. My dear old retired business owning dad told me this as soon as he heard Shorten pushing the police investigation barrow…could see right through him

Here's Larry on the subject : WHY SHORTEN DOESN'T WANT AN R.C. : The Pickering Post

500N 10th Feb 2014 09:07

re Toyota and the Unions.
From the Age
"Toyota’s decision also comes after it failed last December in an attempt to alter its enterprise agreement with employees, with the Federal Court supporting a union-backed argument that it could not ask its factory workers to vote on the changes."

As has happened many times before, when it becomes too much it is easier to just shut the doors.

It would be interesting to know how "hard ball" the union played on the above.

I know a lot of other factors came into play but could this be one that maybe didn't need to be included ?

80% of 100 is better than 100% of nothing.

Fliegenmong 10th Feb 2014 09:08

predict that when it comes to media coverage and government PR spin, the commission will conveniently overshadow them winding back as many worker entitlements in the FWA as they think they can get away with.

There will indeed be the ever compliant MSM working in tandem with the Government WITW! :rolleyes:

Eric who led Turnbull up the garden path with the 'Utegate' affair

Careful now Ken, I was attacked not so long ago for daring to remind some around here about that whole sorry affair! :\

Ken Borough 10th Feb 2014 10:20


It should be pointed out to the likes of Ken B that there is a huge difference between a RC and police investigation
I already know that, and the last person I'd rely on for objective information is Larry Pickering.

For the likes of Priapism, it should be printed out that we already have the Australian Crime Commission. It has the power of a Royal Commission and can initiate prosecutions. Why can't we rely on it to sort out the corruption issues? Look, er , um , there wouldn't be the headlines to suit a grubby political agenda.

500N 10th Feb 2014 22:00

Interesting to see headlines the mood of the nation turn against Corby and the two TV stations. Only had a quick look at the Age article but 90% don't think she should profit or be paid for the interview.

500N 10th Feb 2014 22:49

Interesting article about Toyota and the Unions in Fairfax and whether they did enough which is what I alluded to the other day.

A dangerous game to play when companies can just "pull the plug" and you end up with nothing.

Australian workplace culture partly to blame for Toyota's exit

BenThere 10th Feb 2014 23:31

The thing we're all facing is that the world standard of living is quite a bit below what we've come to expect as post-WWII Western democracies, and the world is catching up.

The productivity of our labor is the most important factor. That productivity is a function of our educational systems, effectiveness of applied capital, and the legislative environment as it applies to commerce. All three of these components are under constant attack from the left.

The nations that nurture their capital, reward their entrepreneurs, and educate their children are inheriting the rewards. The rest of us are rapidly falling behind.

chuboy 11th Feb 2014 00:10

I don't know if I can agree with you on the point that nations which nurture their capital are reaping the benefits of what I assume you mean is a strong economy. Looking around the world the standard of living for the most of the people in China, India, Thailand, et al is well below what is considered the norm in Western countries. If anything, "nurtured" (a distinctively left wing concept imo) populations are the reason we have uncompetitive industries.

On the whole we sorely need a correction that will hurt everyone in the short term, from graduates to baby boomers with property investments to the brave politicians that allow it to take place. Without it the ice will get thinner and we'll one day end up like Greece. Not even resources is enough to keep the country afloat with wages, worker productivity, poor infrastructure and volumes of application forms scaring away investment.

We simply can't compete as manufacturers in a globalised world. I would like to see some vision from our government as to what industries we are seriously going to promote. If tourism, fix up our joke of a service industry. If resources, do something about red tape and productivity. If science and technology, increase investment.

500N 11th Feb 2014 00:15

Service industry.

Fix up retail service and then they might get more business.

7x7 11th Feb 2014 04:52

I sometimes wonder if our expectations haven't priced ourselves out of the market. (Unskilled process workers pulling over 110k p.a after allowances etc., as noted with Holden and Toyota workers.) Tradies aren't much better. My son needed a wire gate/door (pretty much the kind of thing you'd see as an entrance to on a tennis court) on a store room under his flat to stop people dumping rubbish in it.

The cheapest quote? $1565.00 to supply and fit. I told my son I thought that sounded a bit steep and to let me look into it. I had a gate/door - including hinges and a sliding lock - custom made by a local welder for $235.00, and for that price, he threw in four dyna bolts to secure the hinges.

It took be me 15 minutes (it might have been 30 - but no more) to put it in. Throw in an hour's travelling time each way and the tradie might have been in order to call it $400 for labor, say $650 in total for the job. But $1565? On that job, that trade's business model suffered the same fate as the Toyota workers - because he was so incredibly over the top greedy, he ended up with nothing. If he'd have quoted a fair price, and not damn near three times what I consider would have been a fair price for the job, he would have got the job. Instead, I did it myself.

I thought at the time that it was almost a classic example of what's wrong with the Australian workforce.

SOPS 11th Feb 2014 04:53

Meanwhile back to the marriage
 
Muslim cleric charged over 'marriage' of 13yo girl - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Why do we let these people into the country?

7x7 11th Feb 2014 05:27

SOPS, what blew me away was Scott Morrison saying that the 26 Lebanese, here on a student visa, MAY be deported over this. May???? WTF??? I know Morrison is limited in what he can say until the process of the law is followed through its many steps to a conclusion, but "may" be deported?

And WTF was a VISITOR TO THIS COUNTRY, here on a student visa, doing trying to claim Centrelink benefits for his "wife"? (I heard one report on the radio this morning that he was trying to have his visa status changed to a 'spousal visa' - i.e., he was chasing more than underage nookie by getting "married" to a 12 year old - he was after the full time ticket to the Promised Land as well.

If ever there was a case for fast-tracking the torturous legal process to have this man sent back to where he came from PDQ, this is it. But I'd be willing to bet that Julian Burnside or one of his clones will be in there already to represent him and extend the process into a year or more. Much more.

SOPS 11th Feb 2014 05:36

Let me get this right. He is on a student visa? I understood he can't speak English. What the hell is he studying, a masters in how to defraud Centrelink run by the local mosque?

Deport them all, now. And keep the huggy fluffs away from them. If necessary enact legislation to prevent people that commit crimes like these, who are not Australian Citizens, having any legal assistance. Rant over.

SOPS 11th Feb 2014 05:44

And I have just heard that 5 Africian men have gang raped a 14 year old girl in Sydney. Things are getting out of hand. But I'm sure there will be some huggy fluff wanting to help them out as well.

Ken Borough 11th Feb 2014 05:45


I know Morrison is limited
Yes, he is very limited. And challenged. One could not agree more!

I think you are on very shaky ground having a shot at Julian Burnside - a more decent man you wouldn't find.

There is something radically wrong with our visa issuing processes. How can an apparent non-English speaker secure a student visa to attend an Australian university? The police have charged the person who 'celebrated' this marriage and are reportedly making further enquiries as to the involvement of others. As I posted earlier, the NSW Minister Goward reckons her department is aware of any such marriages. What are they doing about them?

SOPS 11th Feb 2014 05:52

That was my point Ken. How the hell can someone who does not speak English, get a student visa ib the first place? Fraudulent is a word that comes to mind.

Ken Borough 11th Feb 2014 06:01

Well, I wonder what is the limited Morrison doing?

On barristers being described as being 'buggy fluff' or whatever, many don't realize that barristers cannot decline a brief. Many have found inventive ways of doing so but the ethics of the profession are pretty clear. The same can't be said for their ambulance-chasing instructing solicitors. :E


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