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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Ken Borough 20th Jan 2014 03:20

As CBR continues to test Indonesia's patience, I wonder when and how the Indos will respond? Would they, for example, deny VH- registered aircraft, the use of their airspace. That would cost QF, JQ and VA dearly and send a signicant message to the trogs who masquerade as our Guvmunt. They really do need to tread very carefully before things blow up in their faces.

500N 20th Jan 2014 03:26

"Would they, for example, deny VH- registered aircraft, the use of their airspace."

In the process taking a huge chunk of tourist dollars away from Indonesia
and probably shutting down the Bali economy in the process.

Not what I would call a good move on their part.

Who is "CBR" ?

bosnich71 20th Jan 2014 04:02

Ken .... back in 1965 the Indons denied us their airspace when we were detailed to fly from RAAF Butterworth to Darwin The Groundies flew, courtesy of RAF Transport Command Brittannia, and were routed around Indonesian airspace via the Cocos,to prevent any nastiness.
The aircrew, I believe, travelled via a more direct route in their shiny RAF Victors and they didn't have any trouble either. Then again we had been waiting the arrival of Indonesian aeroplanes overhead Malaysia for quite a few years previous to that. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...cons/icon7.gif


P.s. Trogg is an old English expression for those who inhabit the Western end of Britain and is inappropriate in it's use in describing those in government who are presently leading this great country of ours out of the wilderness years of Rudd/Gillard/Rudd.

Ken Borough 20th Jan 2014 05:35

Bos,

Don't know about the word's use in UK but in modern Oz, I think you'll find that 'trog' is a diminutive of 'troglodyte'! :ok:

bosnich71 20th Jan 2014 05:42

Ken .... Trogg,double G, was a shortened version of Troglodyte in use in Britain well before Australia discovered the world and, as I said previously, it is highly irregular for someone from Labour Party H.Q. to adopt the slang when trying to excuse the previous "government" performances. LOL.
However keep on posting it's nearly as funny reading labour supporters efforts on this and other blogs as it is reading the letters page in the Age.

Andu 20th Jan 2014 06:01

From 1965 until 1966 or 1967, the RAAF Hercs flew to Butterworth and on to Vietnam via Cocos and around the northern tip of Sumatra. Despite 'Confrantsi' being pretty full on - Indonesian and Australian troops were killing each other in Nth Borneo - I don't believe the Indonesians ever barred civil traffic landing or overflight rights.

But you're right - any such ban would cost the Australian airlines big dollars they could not afford. However, I suspect the Indonesians would find their own hip pockets suffering rather badly as well.

hoofie 20th Jan 2014 06:15

How would they know ?
 
An interesting point - unless Indonesia happened to have aircraft or ships in situ they would have zero way of knowing whether Australian ships violated their territorial waters. From reports I've heard it unlikely they have that kind of capacity [radio direction finding is one possibility but its not hyper accurate].

I would imagine on a Navy ship only the bridge watch would know exactly where they are so the Governments acknowledgement is starting to look more like a point being made rather than an apology.

I wonder how this squares with previous episodes when Australian ships have been very close to the shore in rescue missions.

Worrals in the wilds 20th Jan 2014 09:43


it is highly irregular for someone from Labour Party H.Q. to adopt the slang when trying to excuse the previous "government" performances.
If we're being semantic (and it would appear that we are ;)) then the political party you refer to is the Australian Labor Party, which (more or less :hmm::}) politically represents the Australian labour movement. The various state branches use the state name followed by the word Labor, ie NSW Labor, Qld Labor et al.

There is no such thing as an Australian Labour Party, hence the old joke (that's only kind of a joke) that there is no 'you' in Labor. If various Party highflyers had remembered that, they wouldn't now be 1. inhabiting opposition benches across the country or 2. Enjoying Their Retirement :uhoh:.

As for the Indons banning Australian aircraft...ain't gonna happen. Think of all those bogan dollars/rupiahs going to waste in Australia rather than being spent in Indonesia. Personally, having been to Kuta and seen some Aussies in action :yuk: I wouldn't blame them if they did, but too many Balinese tourist operators rely on the income. IMO this is a diplomatic spat, not a real punch up.

500N 20th Jan 2014 09:46

Bali - One place I very much doubt I will ever visit.

Worrals in the wilds 20th Jan 2014 09:57

It's nice, once you get away from the dreaded Kuta Beach. I particularly liked Ubud, though I've heard that in recent times it's gotten almost as bad as Kuta :(. When I went there twenty years ago it was lovely, full of friendly local people and nice places to visit.

It's a bit like the Gold Coast in that it depends on a certain type of tourist (ie the Aussie Feral) for income, and while the locals don't like ferals any more than Gold Coast locals do they're a major source of income, so they can't tell them to bugger off unless they want to go broke.

500N 20th Jan 2014 10:02

Not my scene. I don't drink beer, in fact don't drink much at all, not into night clubs or night life, not a great fan of crowds or sitting on beaches or trashy touristy crap and the last place I want to go is where thousands of other Aussies go !

I see plenty of them coming back from Bali at Darwin Airport !

Yes, I heard 20 years ago it was nice as is some of the countryside.

bosnich71 20th Jan 2014 10:04

Worrals .... ref. Labor / Labour ... I'm afraid that having been educated in Britain I spell Labour as Labour and, after all that was how the real Labour Party of my Grandfather's era was spelt, even if it was British rather than Australian.
By the way your choice of name puzzles me, have you ever read any Biggles books?

bosnich71 20th Jan 2014 10:15

Vice Admiral R.J. Grigg, Chief of the Royal Australian Navy has had a few words to say ref. the, " disgraceful misreporting and blatant barracking against our Defence Force".
His views can be found on Michael Smith's blog if anyone is interested and they are worth a read.

500N 20th Jan 2014 10:20

I thought the Admiral was spot on and good to see he is on the front foot
telling the media (Fairfax) to pull their heads in.

I can see a few exclusions and refusals to reporters going on jollies
with the ADF in the future.

Worrals in the wilds 20th Jan 2014 10:30

Fair enough. The Australian Labor Party is a different party for a different nation, founded in 1891 under a tree in Barcaldine. To me that is the 'real' Australian Labor Party, but if you were born a Pom I realise you may see it (and habitually spell it) differently.

Nevertheless, on here and elsewhere there are many barbs aimed at the Queensland Labor Party :confused:, the Australian Labour Party :confused::confused: and similar phantom organizations. Likewise people from the left who criticise Australian 'Tories' when no such party (The UK Conservative and Unionist Party, go figure :eek:) has ever existed in Australia. The relevant parties here are the Liberal Party and the National Party of Australia, collectively referred to as The Coalition when they are actually in Coalition (or the LNP in Queensland).

I realise that it's semantic and I also realise that I'm displaying my Asperger tendencies :}, but I believe that if a person feels strongly enough to either criticise or endorse an organization in print or online, they can take a whole three seconds to google that organization's name and use it correctly.

We all criticise the mainstream media when they get basic aviation facts wrong (Cut to news report stating that "The A380 had a near miss" when it was an A330 and they broadcast stock footage of an A340 :ugh::ugh::ugh:) so I think the same rules should apply.


By the way your choice of name puzzles me, have you ever read any Biggles books?
All the Worrals books and a selection of the Biggles books. I inherited a full collection of Biggles and Gimlet books from a relative, and I'm working through them :8 (I already had the Worrals books). I probably should have used the name "Worrals Down Under" (Worrals was taken) but when I joined PPRuNe back in 2007 I had a happy delusion that I would keep my location covert.
Needless to say, that didn't happen. :E
http://www.bigglesbooks.com/images/worrals/wilds.JPG
P.S. With seven years' hindsight, Worrals Carries On may have been more appropriate. :E:}

Vice Admiral R.J. Grigg, Chief of the Royal Australian Navy has had a few words to say ref. the, " disgraceful misreporting and blatant barracking against our Defence Force".
EDIT: Good.

Ken Borough 20th Jan 2014 10:35

The Chief of Navy wrote

...This generation of men and women who wear the uniform are worthy of more respect than has been shown to them in the past few weeks..

Was he referring to certain politicians? :E. :}

Worrals in the wilds 20th Jan 2014 10:40

Dunno about the past few weeks, but the former Defence Minister (Smith) made no secret of his hatred for the ADF. IMO that coloured media reports about defence matters, because the media knew that they could slag the ADF off to their hearts' content and no-one who was politically important would defend them. :(

In contrast, by most accounts Kim Beazley was a very supportive Minister who adored riding in tanks and being shown the latest stuff by members of the ADF, so it's not necessarily a Labor thing.

Airey Belvoir 20th Jan 2014 13:29


" disgraceful misreporting and blatant barracking against our Defence Force”......
...This generation of men and women who wear the uniform are worthy of more respect than has been shown to them in the past few weeks..
Well, there are SOME on here that fit that bill. Feeling a little uncomfortable chaps (or with lady names should that be chapesses)?

500N 20th Jan 2014 13:35

Agree, Smith didn't do the ADF any favors.

I just can't understand putting someone into the Def Portfolio who
doesn't like defence.

Beazley was like a kid with some new toys.


Did anyone see the article on Subamrines in the media today ?
A very cutting one but every truthful.

I'll try to find it.

500N 20th Jan 2014 13:39


Well worth a read.

Future Submarine project a farce that has missed a mention

Future Submarine project a farce that has missed a mention


I did like these words

"That this plan is even being put forward as a matter of policy by the defence bureaucracy shows how deeply ingrained is the cultural delusion and arrogance of the Australian armed forces.

The cycle of money-soaking arrogance runs like this: there is no hardware suitable for local conditions so the Defence Materiel Organisation must design tender specifications that are specialised for Australian needs. The local military-industrial complex will produce custom-modified, low-volume, high-cost military hardware that is the best in the world.


The reality, in a cycle repeated over decades, is the military-industrial complex produces gold-plated, high-maintenance products that never match hype and cost twice as much as they need to.


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