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Pinky the pilot 10th May 2012 05:56

Peter Costello has denied any desire to return to Parliament, according to today's Australian.
Hmm, I seem to remember an episode of "Yes (Prime)Minister'' where the comment was made that one should never believe anything was going on or some such thing, until it had been officially denied.:rolleyes:

Just my 2 cents worth but I hold the view that Costello's dummy spit resignation from politics was one of the dumbest things he had done. As for whether or not he should return.......:hmm:

bob johns; Re Turnbull, my sentiments exactly!:ok:

dat581 10th May 2012 06:03


That latest drop comes after a drop from 5.3% to 5.2% in Feb.I wonder who most here as well as Mr Abbott will give credit for that to?
Might as well give Abbott the credit because Labour blames him for everything else.

CoodaShooda 10th May 2012 06:04

labor's only means for clawing back support is to bribe the electorate and demonise the opposition. They can't stand on their record of achievement, can they?

I think we can anticipate that the time remaining before the next election will see labor playing personality politics and the class card to an extent that hasn't been seen in Australia before. Queensland was just them warming to the task.

But when you look at it, the Coalition's performance hasn't really been that great in opposition. They've been capitalising on any number of labor own-goals but, too often, you're left :ugh::ugh::ugh: at their presentation skills.


I wonder who most here as well as Mr Abbott will give credit for that to?
I'd suggest the credit goes to that group which is much maligned by labor and its entitled class, those who contribute much and receive little or nothing of benefit from this government, the employer.

Buster Hyman 10th May 2012 06:38

Yeah, that's great news.

Full time jobs decreased by 10,500 jobs & part time employment increased by 26,000... Less work = less money for the carbon tax.

Participation rate decreased to 65.2%.

The number of people looking for full & part time work decreased by 28,200... did they just give up? :confused:

sisemen 10th May 2012 07:53

I would suggest that anyone claiming that the present government's policies have anything to do with a reducing jobless rate is either living in fairy land or is so rusted on to Labor that they probably believe that Thomson is innocent!

Jobs are being created in the mining industries; that means WA and Qld. Jobs are in serious decline in the other States and non-mining industries. That is also coupled to the fact that, for the past year, the 'baby boomers' are hitting 65 and are dipping out of the workforce in ever increasing rates. At the moment, and for the next decade or so, the outflow is greater than the inflow and that coupled with the mining sector enables this shower of scheissen to trumpet that they're wonderful.

Lex Talionis 10th May 2012 08:22


I'd suggest the credit goes to that group which is much maligned by labor and its entitled class, those who contribute much and receive little or nothing of benefit from this government, the employer.
It seems as though you have a sense of humour Cooda.:ok:
Employers only put people on if it suits them and not because they are good hearted.The figure means that the economy is going well and if you look at the UK,Europe and the US we are doing very well.

Jobs are being created in the mining industries; that means WA and Qld
Certainly the mining and resource sector is doing well but how do you explain this headline?
I suppose it is a bit too late to claim credit on the unemployment numbers for John Howard even for some here:E

sisemen 10th May 2012 08:42

Did you actually read the whole article Lex?


Unemployment was Victoria's biggest weakness and had jobless rates above longer-term averages.
The article postulates that the "3 speed economy" is down to housing starts - and that may be down to immigration.

Clare Prop 10th May 2012 09:36

If employers don't create employment then who does?

The unions? One of them has provided plenty of employment in the escort industry, but apart from that what jobs do they create apart from thier own beaurocracy...?

The public service? Not manufacturing anything, not selling anything, not value adding anything, just propping up thier own beaurocracy...

Here is the "class" war thing again, what do they think people like Twiggy should do, just close it all down, sack everyone, fill in the hole (or sell it to the Chinese) and go on the dole?

If you were Lang Hancock's daughter how would the people who are following the party line to "hate the evil wealthy people" have done things differently? Give it all away, spend it on themselves or invest it and create jobs? Honestly the way they carry on anyone would think she was Marie Antoinette...!

Andu 10th May 2012 10:16

If a rumour doing the rounds in Canberra at the moment is to be believed, I understand that a very senior Canberra personage with quasi royal connections is really hoping that the Australian media will follow the French example and declare a politician's personal life to be strictly off limits.

If the rumour is true, the current crisis in this gentleman's personal life might be said to be a case of history repeating itself.

If the rumour proves to be untrue, Australian politics has sunk to a new low.

Worrals in the wilds 10th May 2012 10:42


The unions? One of them has provided plenty of employment in the escort industry, but apart from that what jobs do they create apart from thier own beaurocracy...
No. In an ideal world, they safeguard employment conditions and represent their members collectively so people don't end up flogging themselves in unsafe workplaces for peanuts.

That's supposed to be the charter, and unions that have strayed from that charter and gone into personal entertainment packages at their members' expense and/or politics are already learning what their members and would be members think about that. :mad:

As you say, employers create employment, and they should be encouraged by the government of the day (whatever side it comes from) to do so; however, not at the expense of safety or inferior conditions.

The last point is the grey area; what constitutes inferior conditions is the neverending question. What's fair? What's reasonable? :confused:

The way to establish this is with sensible discussion and negotiation between both sides. In good businesses (whether large or small), this is what happens, whether it's between unions and management or five teenagers and Luigi the restaurant owner. In bad businesses it turns into a punch up. :ouch:

Being a union delegate in a good company is a bit like being a goalie for a good soccer team; you sit around alert but rarely see any action. Good companies communicate with their staff and work out a shared solution, and I'm sure that's what you do in your business, which is why you're successful.

Likewise, a good government provides incentives to good employers and safeguards for people employed by bad employers; like the previous point, what's good and bad is an endless grey area that's ever expanded by the minority of flockwits on both sides (employers and employees) who push the idiot boundary on a daily basis. :( Good governments don't stifle businesses with an onslaught of mindless paperwork, charges and 'initiatives' that only benefit the government and the training industry. Door Opening Course, $195 per employee, coming to a state government near you :yuk:. This is the crap that makes a mockery of legitimate WH&S regulations that prevent companies getting employees to do dumb stuff.

Nor do they decree that Might Is Right, a fair playing field consists of each individual worker against a zillion dollar company and lunch breaks are a privilege.

In my limited experience, any company that ends up with a union/employee punch up either has the wrong management for the job, the wrong workers for the job or in some cases (like the Rat) a combination of both.

Unfortunately recruitment is about as scientific as tarot reading (it kind of works, but no-one knows why, and when it doesn't work you end up with a bunch of bad advice :ouch:) and short term Shareholder Value for the superannuation companies has often replaced the drive to manufacture/build/grow/fly things :sad:, so everyone's values have gotten a bit skewed by the self serving deadbeats on both sides.

CoodaShooda 10th May 2012 11:48


In my limited experience, any company that ends up with a union/employee punch up either has the wrong management for the job, the wrong workers for the job or in some cases (like the Rat) a combination of both.
Agreed, although you missed one group out. The union official using industrial muscle to pursue their own agenda.

Worrals in the wilds 10th May 2012 13:13

Agreed, though I think they fit into the following:

unions that have strayed from that charter and gone into personal entertainment packages at their members' expense and/or politics are already learning what their members and would be members think about that. http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...s/censored.gif
Anyone who's gone into the union movement for personal glory or big bucks is in the wrong line of work. Apart from anything else the honest state secretaries (and there are plenty of them) often earn less than some of their members, particularly with the mining boom. Nothing wrong with that, either, though the secretaries don't always agree :}.

Buster Hyman 10th May 2012 14:39

Well put Worrals. There is a DEFINITE need for Unions & I would not like to see them disappear completely. I just wish they remembered what they are there for.

Years ago, when the ACTU formed the ALP, they wanted a voice in Parliament. Now, I think they'd go a long way towards regaining some credibility if they divested themselves from a political party & stood up for the workers regardless of who's in power!

Lex Talionis 10th May 2012 15:22


Years ago, when the ACTU formed the ALP, they wanted a voice in Parliament. Now, I think they'd go a long way towards regaining some credibility if they divested themselves from a political party & stood up for the workers regardless of who's in power!
Actually Buster the ALP has been around longer than the ACTU by many years.However,the unions did realise that the real path to success was through political representation but that holds true for virtually any group in society including the employers and thus the conservative parties traditional power base.
That is what really sticks in the craw of conservative supporters.They can't stand the idea of the working class having political power but they don't mind having it themselves and therein lies the problem or at least one problem of many.

No. In an ideal world, they safeguard employment conditions and represent their members collectively so people don't end up flogging themselves in unsafe workplaces for peanuts.
Actually in an ideal world you wouldn't need unions to safeguard employment conditions but with any group power corrupts.That not only includes unions but the corporate world and employers as well.It's a human trait and there will always be someone who will take the leap and most probably take others with them.

sisemen 10th May 2012 17:29


That is what really sticks in the craw of conservative supporters.They can't stand the idea of the working class having political power but they don't mind having it themselves and therein lies the problem or at least one problem of many.
And that is the biggest load of class-driven drivel that I have ever seen.

I am "working class" and I am a basic "conservative supporter" but I have no problem whatsoever with anyone having political power so long as they exercise that power responsibly, professionally and for the good of the whole.

This shower of scheissen fail miserably on all of those scores.

I have never seen a political party fall so far from public grace as this lot have done - not even in the dark days of Jim "What crisis" Callaghan in the UK prior to the left being cast into the wilderness for almost a decade and a half. At least they had honour and principles and would not have contemplated carrying a Thomson and a Slipper to shore up their salaries.

frigatebird 10th May 2012 23:01


That is also coupled to the fact that, for the past year, the 'baby boomers' are hitting 65 and are dipping out of the workforce in ever increasing rates.
More like.. Being forced out of the workforce even earlier because of age prejudice.
But thats allright, just let a few extra muslims and Indos in on lower terms to take up the slack.. :yuk:

Andu 10th May 2012 23:09

Let's hope history doesn't repeat itself
 
Cookies must be enabled. | The Australian


AUSTRALIA'S defence budget has been cut to pre-World War II levels, with spending for 2012-13 falling to below 1.6 per cent of gross domestic product, a level unmatched since the 1930s.

"It's reduced to levels not seen since the time of the Munich peace marches," said defence spending expert Mark Thomson from the Australian Strategic Policy Institute, invoking an iconic moment from the 1930s.

CoodaShooda 11th May 2012 00:07


There is a DEFINITE need for Unions
Agreed. Just as there is a need for the print and electronic media.

I just wish my past dealings with representatives of both groups had been more positive. There's a limit to how much dishonesty and misrepresentation I can tolerate.

Worrals in the wilds 11th May 2012 00:28

Unfortunately both groups attract a certain number of self-seeking erks. :sad:

Today's Courier Mail editorial on class warfare. :ok:
EDITORIAL: More class, less warfare | The Courier-Mail

Ovation 11th May 2012 02:04

Let me share my limited experience with Unions with you all. Sorry if it’s long, but it’s one worth telling.

In 2002 after 20 years (and 16 days, but then who’s counting) in business I sold out, and I can boast that only once (in 1999) did I ever have a Union rep come through the door (but I’ll leave that story to Part II). My company had over 30 employees in Metal trades – fitters, welders, boilermakers and electricians making package handling equipment for freight terminals, warehouses and to add some Pprune flavouring, even airports. We particularly avoided working on any site where building trade unions were present, and in fact our equipment was designed to be installed just days before a system would go “live”.

Along the way there was close contact with other specialist fabricators who like us, supplied conveying equipment to a “system integrator” whose job was to tie the project together, so we had to co-ordinate our activities and formed good relationships with them all.

Anyway, there was this major expansion at a capital city airport where one of the companies I knew very well was installing a baggage conveyor system. This company had their own permanent site crew who did nothing but installations and travelled all over Australia and even did work internationally. But then the Union demanded before installation could start, they had to employ these two particular fellows (outsiders), and there was no choice but to. The Union also dictated that one would be the Shop Steward, and the other the Health and Safety Rep.

The Union threats and coercion (to employ these fellows) came from various directions. Their delivery trucks would not be allowed on site and if they were, the forklifts or cranes would refuse to unload. There were threats to stop steel deliveries from suppliers to their manufacturing facility.

So this company is now committed with a Million or so of work in progress, and with a gun at their head, had simply no choice in the matter. The native crew who were union members anyway, were intimidated by the two Union heavies, and the outcome was entirely predictable. Components that would normally need a day to install took a week, and during the week the crew would spend most of the day in the crib room drinking coffee and debating some imaginary OHS issue. “But no worries mate, we can work on the weekend (at penalty rates of course) to help move the job along”.

So there was a very unsurprising outcome. A job that should have been completed in 4-5 months ended up taking about 2 years, and the company was bleeding to death. A successful family company that had survived for over 40 years, a leader in its field and one that had great respect from its employees and competitors was destroyed and bankrupted by the bloody mindedness of a Union and their deliberate planting of troublemakers.

There is a Pt II (next week).


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