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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Captain Sand Dune 27th Feb 2012 07:38

Hopefully she is handing her resignation to the Queen!
One can only dream! Naaah, she's hanging out for sonny-in-law to make his move.

Anyone know why Bill Shortens mother in law is out of the country, and why ?
Well, we could make something up:E

sisemen 27th Feb 2012 08:52

Taken her broomstick to Transylvania for a 100,000 km service?

tinpis 27th Feb 2012 09:33

Pretty ho-hum really.....until I noticed the blonde in red in the meedjah huddle:E

sisemen 27th Feb 2012 13:41

My apologies to all the contributors and readers of this thread. I started the thread under the misapprehension that a political war had broken out.

I know that in the past week we have had words like; untrustworthy, no Labor values, scheming, duplicitous, white-anting and impossible to work with and I interpreted those words to indicate that there was a vicious power struggle going on.

But I was wrong. The ballot has been declared and now it appears that the whole thing was merely an "honest discussion" and a "frank exchange" and now the ALP is able to "move forward" - "united".

So, my deepest apologies people. I obviously misinterpreted the whole shebang and everyone was everyone elses deepest and bestest friend after all.

bob johns 27th Feb 2012 20:51

bob johns
Yairs We were only playing leap frog! why? what did you think we were doing??With this mob of moral pygmies, who would know??I seem to remember Goofy referring to John Kerr as ,MY Govenor General,patently obvious whose GG this one is.

Andu 28th Feb 2012 23:39

The ABC (the ABC!!!) is reporting this morning that Julia Gillard chose ex NSW Premier Bob Carr to take the Senate seat vacated by Mark Arbib (in what are now being seen (again by the ABC!!!) as increasingly mysterious circumstances with "perhaps more to it that it first seemed" [duh!]).

Carr was apparently on the way to the airport to go to Canberra to take both the Senate seat and Kevin Rudd's recently vacated Foreign Affairs portfolio when "the faceless men" told Gillard that Carr was a no-go. Carr is now telling the meedja that he's not interested in the Senate seat and the ABC (again, the ABC!!!) is saying that "this whole affair is a very bad look for Julia Gillard".

Edited to add: not just the ABC.

http://b l o g s.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/gillard_overruled_in_making_carr_her_terrible_foreign_minist er/

RJM 29th Feb 2012 00:10

All we have to do about Gillard is wait...

Worrals in the wilds 29th Feb 2012 00:30

Jools has had more bad looks than RuPaul, and it's still only February, :eek:

I wonder who is leaking all this stuff? There myst be very little confidence in either Rudd or Gillard, because everyone else in the team (MP or otherwise) seems to have a direct line to one of the news companies and a ready supply of stories about how crap they are.

As you say, when even the Australian Bolshevik Channel is crtitcising an ALP government, things must be looking :eek::sad::ooh: to the MPs in marginal seats.

Private Partz 29th Feb 2012 02:09


When it comes down to preferred PM then it's very close. So if Julia Gillard is so bad then why is Tony Abbott not so much further ahead either at something like 38 - 36?
Statistically PM's poll higher than Opposition Leaders because they have a greater presence in the public arena. For Abbott to poll higher than Gillard as preferred PM reveals how deeply unpopular she really is.

The curious thing is that if you read most of the posts here and listen to the political commentators Labor has not a snow flakes chance in hell of winning the next election.Then why isn't the opposition running away with super high polling numbers as you would think they would if Labor is so much on the nose.
To get the polling numbers they currently enjoy, the Opposition would win in a landslide, and you are correct, Labor is on the nose.

You ask why the numbers are not "super high"? If you knew that of the 750,000 or so jobs added since the ALP formed government in 2007, 6 out of 10 are public servants vs the historical average of 2 out of 10, you might understand why the polls are good but not outstanding. The ALP rely heavily on public servants for electoral support, as well as the so called "welfare underclass" of our population. The ALP nurture these folks with a mixture of handouts and envy of the more affluent in our midst, and because they are so firmly glued to the public teat they'd rather get a job than vote for the Coalition.

One of the more reputable journalists has asked why isn't the oppositions polling numbers through the roof instead of just ahead of Labor?
Who might that be? The Canberra press gallery has been unbelievably kind to the ALP and protective of Gillard in particular. Imagine if Tony Abbott was an family wrecking adulterer, mixed up in shady financial deals, or an atheist - it would be front page headlines on a daily basis.

sisemen 29th Feb 2012 02:27

Historically, in most democratic countries, there are 2 main political parties plus a number of other minor parties to take care of the vote for the disaffected. Therefore, approximately 50% of the voting population will vote for one main party or another. If it varies wildly from that then that party with the descending popularity is destined to wash up on the shore as flotsam.

This is exactly what happened in the UK following the first world war when the Liberal party were severely on the nose and the Labour party became ascendant.

With the present system of 'rusted on' supporters with only relatively minor swinging voters that is why the disparity between the Coalition and the ALP is not wider. However, given the present unheard of circumstances that could well be the game changer allowing the Greens to assume 2nd party status.

See, ALP, now look what you've done :=

Ah well, that's me for now. Will keep a loose tab on events while I'm holidaying in NZ :ok:

Buster Hyman 29th Feb 2012 03:03

Video - Gillard told to 'sit down' - The Age


tarbaby 29th Feb 2012 03:15

After watching this comedy unfold I can only say that Muldoon had it right. Any New Zealander emigrating to Australia raises the IQ of both countries.

Worrals in the wilds 29th Feb 2012 03:32

The Worrals Survey (highly scientific and based around whoever I've been working / chatting / rabble rousing /drinking / standing in a random queue with over the previous week :suspect::}) indicates to me that most people loathe both sides. They just loathe the Libs a little bit less at the moment. I haven't even met anyone carryng a membership card from either side (and I know a few of both) who is passionate about their own team at the moment.

Also, a lot of Aussies just don't care. They don't read about politics, they don't watch the news about politics, they usually unquestioningly vote the way their Dear Ol' Dad did and they generally take the view that 'it makes no difference either way.' There are times when I tend to agree with them. :rolleyes:

P.S. These survey companies still largely use the random phone call at dinner time approach, don't they? Does any sane person actually take these calls (while they're watching the news, drinking wine, Being Charming and finding out that Vietnamese Rice Paper Rolls shouldn't actually contain paper :ouch:)?
Or do they say something from the 'no thank you' to ':mad: off' continuum and hang up? I often wonder who they're actually speaking to and how indicative the sample is of the geneeral population. :confused:

Buster Hyman 29th Feb 2012 03:40

I think the Worrals survey has the pulse of the nation there... :D

Andu 29th Feb 2012 04:14

It was around 1922 that compulsory voting was introduced in Australia after voter turnout at the federal election was (I think) somewhere around 18%, which is some indication that the average Aussie then had about as much interest in politics then (and respect for politicians) as he/she does today.

I wonder what the turnout would be today (or 2013) if 'they' (them in Canberra) were to remove the compulsory voting provision? I suspect that just this once, it would be a lot higher than 18% because so many are just busting a proverbial whoopee valve to remove the current government, but I'm also sure it would be nowhere near 100%. And because of the protest vote, the swing away from Labor would be considerably higher than the polls are showing.

If the compulsory provision ever was to be dropped, one thing is certain - it would not be the Labor Party doing the dropping, because a huge proportion of those who go to vote only to avoid the fine vote Labor.

If a double dissolution was to be part of our immediate future, maybe it's a bill the next government might consider slipping through while it has the majority that would allow it to do so? Or would the Libs be as unwilling as Labor to put themselves in a position to learn just how few voters care a damn about them?

The other thing we HAVE to introduce is electronic marking off of voters' names when they vote the first time to put a stop to double voting, which anecdotal evidence suggests is more widely spread in critical seats than the AEC will ever admit officially.

Worrals in the wilds 29th Feb 2012 05:07

I dunno, I've always worried about moving away from compulsory voting because of the fruitcake lobby group factor. We have such a small population that it could be magnified even more than in other countries. :(
The majors might be hopeless at the moment, but at least they don't believe in chemtrails and moon landing conspiracy theories.

Slasher 29th Feb 2012 05:37

I got fined 10 bucks for missing the 1990 Fed election vote -
had forgotten to remove meself from the list after I left Oz.
Never paid it. Don't intend to neither.

Andu 29th Feb 2012 06:41

We'll have to agree to disagree on that point, Worrals. I know I'm not the only one frustrated when I see my vote basically wasted by the contrary vote of idiots who haven't paid one iota of attention to any of the issues affecting us all and who vote for the Party that will keep the handouts flowing.

I got the following in an email from a mate a few days ago. It's obviously American-based, but equally applies here in the (increasingly un-) 'lucky country.

Written by a 21 year old female

Someone has certainly lit this girl's fuse!

"The problems we face today are because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by those who vote for a living"

This was written by a 21 yr old female who gets it.

It's her future she’s worried about and this is how she feels about the social welfare that she is being forced to live in!

These solutions are just common sense in her opinion.

Nov 18, 2011

Put me in charge . . .

Put me in charge of food stamps. I'd get rid of cash for Ding Dongs or Ho Ho's, just money for 50kg bags of rice and beans, blocks of cheese and all the powdered milk you can haul away. If you want steak and frozen pizza, then get a job.

Put me in charge of Medicare. The first thing I'd do is to get women Norplant birth control implants or tubal ligations. Then, we'll test recipients for drugs, alcohol, and nicotine and document all tattoos and piercings. If you want to reproduce or use drugs, alcohol, smoke or get tats and piercings, then get a job.

Put me in charge of government housing. Ever live in a military barracks?
You will maintain our property in a clean and good state of repair. Your "home" will be subject to inspections anytime and possessions will be inventoried. If you want a plasma TV or Xbox 360, then get a job and your own place.

In addition, you will either present a check stub from a job each week or you will report to a "government" job. It may be cleaning the roadways of trash, painting and repairing public housing, whatever we find for you. We will sell your 22 inch rims and low profile tires and your blasting stereo and speakers and put that money toward the common good..

Before you write that I've violated someone's rights, realize that all of the above is voluntary. If you want our money, accept our rules.. Before you say that this would be "demeaning" and ruin their "self esteem," consider that it wasn't that long ago that taking someone else's money for doing absolutely nothing was demeaning and lowered self esteem.

If we are expected to pay for other people's mistakes we should at least attempt to make them learn from their bad choices. The current system rewards them for continuing to make bad choices.

AND while you are on Govt subsistence, you no longer can VOTE! Yes that is correct. For you to vote would be a conflict of interest. You will voluntarily remove yourself from voting while you are receiving a Govt welfare cheque. If you want to vote, then get a job.

And to repeat myself as I beat my favourite hobby horse, we have to do something about double voting and I see an electronic master roll, where the name of each voter immediately becomes 'hatched' when he or she votes at any booth or registers an absentee/postal vote is long overdue.

Worrals in the wilds 29th Feb 2012 11:18

Fair enough.

As for the electronic system...I've seen government databases in action and I don't know that they'd be any better than the current system. Put it this way; lots of dead people would still be able to vote. Not unless they were willing to spend a shiteload of money and employ lots of people to administer the system, and we all know how likely that is. :rolleyes:

Fun Fact: The Australian Electoral Commission is regarded as one of the lowest paying and lousiest employers in the Australian Public Service. The usual APS protections/perks do not apply to many of their staff, who are effectively seasonal casuals; they'd be better off working for a fast food provider.

That's how much importance the Government (including the previous Howard Government) attributes to frontline electoral staff. We're probably lucky any of them show up at all.

P.S. Massive drift, but IMHO the 'journos' on The Circle are douchebags and a disgrace to their profession. Given their profession, that's a big call. :yuk::yuk::yuk: This morning I was discussing with a (scarred for life, old-school 'we don't do feelings, just lots of divorces' :}) ex-AJ friend about how it was great to see a big, tough, VC winning, SASR dude being frank, honest and slightly emotional about 'personal' stuff, and a good example to the young blokes. So much for that being a good idea. :( With hindsight, the 'never give an interview, never be photographed' philosophy is probably the better one.
TV show slammed for insulting Australian war hero - Yahoo!7

RJM 29th Feb 2012 15:00

Larry Pickering is usually reliable:

Andu 29th Feb 2012 20:07

Pickering's cartoon pretty well nails it.

"Better dead than Kev?"

mcgrath50 29th Feb 2012 23:30

Fun Fact: The Australian Electoral Commission is regarded as one of the lowest paying and lousiest employers in the Australian Public Service. The usual APS protections/perks do not apply to many of their staff, who are effectively seasonal casuals; they'd be better off working for a fast food provider.
Maybe but it's also not usual APS employees doing the casual stuff. Through high school and uni I worked as one of these seasonal casuals, and for my age got paid a lot more than any of my friends were earning in their casual jobs.

Apart from students the other big group of workers were mums and retired folk. Ie; people who had the spare time during an election to come in and wanted to earn a quick buck.

Otherwise agree totally that everyone loathes both sides of politics and compulsory voting is needed in Australia at least. I have no idea what side of politics to favour when the fed election comes round :{

alisoncc 1st Mar 2012 00:25

Is there no end to her lies and deceit.

FORMER NSW premier Bob Carr has directly contradicted Julia Gillard's denial that he was offered the post of foreign minister in her government this week.

The Prime Minister's handling of the disclosure of Labor's attempt to draft Mr Carr has sparked fresh concerns among colleagues about her political judgment.

The Australian

Worrals in the wilds 1st Mar 2012 00:51

Apart from students the other big group of workers were mums and retired folk. Ie; people who had the spare time during an election to come in and wanted to earn a quick buck.
Fair enough, the info I have is via the Eureka flag network, with a small amount direct from a disgruntled employee. I guess any casual employer has some employees who are happy to be casuals on demand (such as students and mums) and some who would like more.

Pinky the pilot 1st Mar 2012 01:59

The Prime Minister's handling of the disclosure of Labor's attempt to draft Mr Carr has sparked fresh concerns among colleagues about her political judgment.
And only two days after seeing off Rudd. :rolleyes:

And also, like Worrals, Most people I run into around The Riverland in SA share the same views. Though here (safe Liberal seat) Labor is hated intensely. Some of the comments made to me cannot be posted here.:eek:

bob johns 1st Mar 2012 02:13

bob johns
Allways did think George Negus was an arshole and now I still do. Go away you bloody parasite.

Wiley 2nd Mar 2012 01:37

Bon Carr... (!)


Frank Arouet 2nd Mar 2012 05:45

More documented Gillard/ Labor lies.

Andu 2nd Mar 2012 05:48

Bob Carr. The man who, even before Tony Blair, showed the way to finesse spin, smoke and mirrors into a political art form.

There has to be a back story to this extraordinary appointment, and a really juicy one. One thing we can be sure of - in HMAS 'Leak', a.k.a. the Gillard 'government', we won't have long to wait until that back story is dropped on some journo's inbox.

On another matter but along the same lines, there's a rumour doing the rounds in NSW that disaffected members of the Health Services Union have video evidence of Craig Thompson entering at least one brothel on a night he assured the police and parliament that an unknown someone else used his credit card at that brothel. Interesting times ahead if that rumour proves to be true.

There's an email doing the rounds titled something along the lines of "Red Queen's Orgasm" with a picture of our Dear Leader looking rapturous, with a caption - "the look you have on your face when you've f***ed a whole country".

Takan Inchovit 2nd Mar 2012 09:14

The right price!
Carr for hire?

sisemen 2nd Mar 2012 09:15

Well, it would appear that, despite Jooliars new lie about not offering Carr the job it is now a fait accompli.

Apart from the fact that this merely confirms in the public's eye that she is not to be trusted under any circumstances whatsoever, it also gives Krudd a couple of more votes for the next round. Can't imagine that Smith, who wanted to go back to Foreign Affairs, will be all that pleased with her.

What a fckuing dysfunctional rabble.


Sisemen - stuck in Wellington on account of the ferry to South Island has been cancelled because of 75 knot winds and 7 metre waves forecast!

tinpis 2nd Mar 2012 10:01

Sisemen, look up "Wahine" :ooh:

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Mar 2012 10:14

Isn't a Minister supposed to come from the house of reps?

CoodaShooda 2nd Mar 2012 11:39


Ministers can come from either House but the PM has to be from the Lower House.

Love the way this is now being spun as a great Gillard triumph.

Kills off Rudd and stares down her colleagues to have Carr appointed.

I somehow think that the neat political nuances will be lost on the general public.

However, I expect to see her standings in the polls improve as we return to the good old "blame it all on Tony" game.

The sky will not fall in on 1 July when the carbon tax cuts in (if they can work out how to implement it).

It will become a bit tougher for those who work for a living and have been marginally successful at it. But they probably wouldn't vote labor anyway.

A large number of others will be subsidised by the higher tax payers and the pay off will be more votes for labor - just as Juliar predicted.

I wonder how much more damage she can cause to the wealth generating parts of Australian society before her time is up.

Buster Hyman 2nd Mar 2012 12:14

...aaaaand the personal attacks begin. :rolleyes:

So much for this thread then. :hmm:

JB Mods 2nd Mar 2012 12:34

Not quite yet Buster. ;)

With almost all participants clearly making a major and much appreciated effort to keep this thread civil and tenable, we´re not going to let one idiot post ruin it for all of you.

Offending post deleted, poster banned.

Carry on. :ok:

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Mar 2012 13:07

Thanks Arovet and Cooda. I should have been less lazy and looked it up.
P.S. Thanks Joint Shite Fighters. Much appreciated! :ok:

CoodaShooda 2nd Mar 2012 20:23


Why go elsewhere when the Knowledge of PPRuNe far exceeds all other sources? :E

Thanks Mods. I don't know what we missed but it's nice to have the opportunity to continue to air our views.

Which has me wondering, with the handing down of the Finkelstein Report and the inexorable spread of the Government controlled NBN, how long before a government reform includes the establishment of an Office or Department of Public Information?

Andu 2nd Mar 2012 20:36

What's the bet a 'SAFE' seat is going to appear for Bob with a sudden retirement of say someone who was a Rudd supporter?
What do you reckon the chances are that Craig Thompson might soon 'suddenly' require the professional attention of his old union members? Would that be a bit too soon for the ALP Faceless Men Machine to "do a John Gorton" with Carr and re=parachute him to the Lower House?

Is there such a thing today as a "safe" Labor seat?

Worrals in the wilds 2nd Mar 2012 20:53

...how long before a government reform includes the establishment of an Office or Department of Public Information?
Yesterday, if Bob Brown gets his way. The only plus side is that if it gets the same level of funding and staff as the other intelligence gathering agencies, it won't be very effective and we'll all be able to get around it by using proxy servers and roolly cryptic names like Red Queen and Black Panda. :suspect:
Fake data used to rush 'top secret' clearances

What do you reckon the chances are that Craig Thomson might soon 'suddenly' require the professional attention of his old union members?
IMHO a bit of this sort of professional union attention wouldn't go astray; for 1. bringing the movement into even more disrepute than it was already and 2. being dumb enough to either use a credit card in a brothel, or lend a credit card and a copy of a drivers licence to someone going to a brothel (his explanation). :rolleyes: Maybe the dog nicked them off the counter and went to the brothel too. :}

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