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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Andu 28th Jul 2012 07:54

Swan as Prime Minister.... I didn't think the position could be more demeaned than it has been by the last two persons to hold that office. But just when you think it couldn't get worse, someone proves to you that it can.

If we aren't already, (which I strongly suspect we are), we'd be the laughing stock of the world. Maybe that should read "we'd be an even bigger laughing stock than we are now".

There's a bright side to Swan taking over as PM - there'd be a very real chance that he would follow John Howard to be the third serving PM to lose both an election AND his seat in parliament.

allan907 28th Jul 2012 08:40

I think that Latham's reasoning was that as Swanny was a willing and active participant in the current train wreck under both Rudd and Gillard then he should be in pole position to take the flak and accept his responsibility for the mess.

Andu 28th Jul 2012 22:47

Another boat... this one bypassed Christmas Island and wasn't found until close to Broome. Straight to Broome for the latest lucky winners in "come on down!" country shopping.

RJM 28th Jul 2012 23:11

As Barrie Cassidy observed "the failure of the richest states to cough up a relative pittance towards the NDIS trials appears to be the dumbest - and meanest - act by leading politicians in a very long time.
In fact, it appears that at dinner with the premiers the night before the COAG meeting, Gillard failed to support a proposal by the premiers (and the Productivity Council) for the expiring Queensland flood levy to be replaced by a levy for NDIS.

It's common sense, but the reason she didn't go for it was her fear of Abbott attacking it as a tax. In other words, she was doing with the NDIS exactly what she put her hand on her heart and said should not be done - she was playing politics with the NDIS.

It's yet another example of poor judgment by Gillard, because in reality, Abbott would not have opposed a proposal put up by the Liberal premiers.

History will judge Gillard very harshly.

Barrie Cassidy, btw, is married to Left-leaning ABC 7:30 presenter Heather Ewart. Don't expect impartiality from Barrie.

CoodaShooda 29th Jul 2012 01:17

From Wiki

Barrie Cassidy (born 4 March 1950) is a veteran Australian political journalist.[1]

Cassidy was born in Wangaratta and grew up in the Victorian town of Chiltern, attending Rutherglen High School. He had many brothers and an elder sister, and grew up with a love of football and sports. Starting his career as a cadet on the Albury Border Morning Mail in 1969,[1] he moved to the Shepparton News about a year later before being hired as a court reporter for the Melbourne Herald. Joining the ABC Network, he initially covered state politics. He moved to Canberra to become the ABC's federal political correspondent for radio and television in 1979.

In 1986, Cassidy was approached by the then Prime Minister, Bob Hawke, to become his personal press secretary. He remained in the job—which he has described as "the most rewarding and interesting period of my life"—until Paul Keating took over the leadership in 1991 following a challenge.[1]

Moving to Washington, Cassidy worked as a correspondent for The Australian (a News Corporation newspaper) before returning to Australia to host the Last Shout and Meet the Press programs on Network Ten.[2] Cassidy returned to the ABC to replace Paul Lyneham as host on The 7.30 Report[3] before he, his daughter and his wife (Heather Ewart) were sent to Brussels as European correspondents.[4]

In 2010, Cassidy wrote The Party Thieves: the real story of the 2010 election (Melbourne University Press, October 2010, ISBN 978-0-522-85780-1), which one reviewer called "the standard text on precisely what happened in 2010."[5]

Cassidy currently hosts the Sunday morning political discussion show Insiders,[2][6] the sports panel show Offsiders and was until recently hosting the morning show ABC News Breakfast. He stepped down from his role as host of Offsiders to write The Party Thieves. He has a keen interest in horseracing, and is a devout fan of Collingwood in the Australian Football League. Cassidy is also a keen jogger, running almost every day. [7] Cassidy appeared as himself in the first episode of the 1998 Australia television series The Games.
What can you say about his judgement and impartiality?

He's a ........................................................Coll ingwood supporter!

RJM 29th Jul 2012 05:54

Honestly, I had no idea. Cassidy is obviously a paragon of impartiality, a man who would make Solomon look bent.

Good old Collingwood forever,
We know how to play the game....etc

Towering Q 29th Jul 2012 07:25

Yes, being a Collingwood supporter is a cause for concern.:uhoh:

However, I have been impressed with his role as host of Insiders. He does remain impartial and has a good rapport with the regular right-wing guests, like Ackerman and Henderson.

RJM 29th Jul 2012 08:02

Fair comment. He certainly doesn't have the attitude of, say, Fran Kelly (ABC Radio National morning presenter).

Willi B 29th Jul 2012 22:48

Interesting piece by Peter Sheenan in today's Sydney Morning Herald that sets out what he sees as the Oz draw factors that attract irregular maritime arrivals:

The truth on refugees is worse than fiction

allan907 30th Jul 2012 00:38

People granted refugee status become eligible for welfare payments immediately without having to wait the two-year period set for immigrants.


Why does breaking the rules and deliberately destroying your means of identification allow you access to benefits immediately while those abiding by the rules are effectively 'punished' by comparison?


People granted refugee status become eligible for welfare payments immediately without having to wait the two-year period set for immigrants.
And that's why Gillard and her motley crew are toast.

Dark Knight 30th Jul 2012 06:55

`Poll shows Gillard on slow road back'

Michael Gordon Political Editor The Age Melbourne

I have to get some of whatever he is smoking or drinking; it has to be good stuff!!!! :confused:

ps>>Allen; don't forget the free housing, motor vehicle allowance, plus, plus: Our pensioners should have it so good???? :mad:

SOPS 30th Jul 2012 07:46

Please Lord..give me strength...this rubbish has to stop NOW!!!

Dark Knight 30th Jul 2012 07:54

Section 51. of OUR Constitution states: (in part)

`The Parliament shall, subject to this Constitution, have power to make laws for the peace, order, and good government of the Commonwealth with respect to:

(xix.) Naturalisation and aliens:
(xxvii.) Immigration and emigration:
(xxviii.) The influx of criminals:’

It is the Parliament which makes law; not the Labor,Liberal, National Party, The Greens or Independents but the Parliament.

And; it is certainly not the role of an outsourced committee of Unelected citizens!

If the Prime Minister, Her Ministers or Government are unable, unwilling, incapable of submitting legislation to the Parliament and have it passed then OUR Constitution is equally clear that the Prime Minister has a clear, unequivocal obligation and duty not to attempt to subvert the Constitution or Parliament but to return to the People where we, the People will make the decision!

SOPS 30th Jul 2012 07:59

In that case it is high time that WE were given a chance to make a decision, and lets us have an elecection NOW!!!!

Andu 30th Jul 2012 08:05

Two records for Jools this week -

(a) Not yet the end of July and we've exceeded the previous annual record for "undocumented arrivals", and

(b) more "undocumented arrivals" arrived here in the last two weeks than arrived on the First Fleet.

As someone (Tony Abbott?) said on the ABC this morning, if they were handing out medals for repeated failure, Julia Gillard would win the gold, silver and the bronze.

SOPS 30th Jul 2012 08:31

When does Parliament resume???? Is it tomorrow by any chance:ugh:

Captain Sand Dune 30th Jul 2012 09:28

Some interesting stuff here
Media Gagged - Gillard & the AWU Scandal - YouTube
Don't watch if you're a true believer though:E

allan907 30th Jul 2012 10:05

The first comment on Section 1 says it all:

The stench of corruption and lies coming from gillard's labour party and the unions has become unbearable...when will Australian's realise that we cannot afford to wait for an election...we need to act now
One would hope that this particular rolling stone gathers pace and rolls right through Gillard's door and ends up in a court of law.

SOPS 30th Jul 2012 10:10

I have been waiting for the stone to gather some pace for a while. It seems a person or persons is/are very good at impeding the stone's progress.

parabellum 30th Jul 2012 12:11

Don't suppose the GG will do anything to speed it up either.

RJM 30th Jul 2012 13:18

I have been waiting for the stone to gather some pace for a while.
You and the other 72% of us, SOPS.

Isaac Hunte 30th Jul 2012 16:33

Pickering v Slater and Gordon
Larry Pickering, a well known Australian cartoonist and outspoken critic of Gillard, has thrown down a challenge to left wing law firm Slater and Gordon to sue him over the allegations he's made about their involvement in the theft of funds from the AWU by Gillard's former lover, Bruce Wilson.

Read it here: Pickering's blog

If Slater and Gordon were to sue Pickering, he would be entitled to seek disclosure of any and all relevant documents, which of course would show how deep was Gillard's involvement and knowledge of this scandal that she's so desperately tried to put a lid on.

hellsbrink 30th Jul 2012 16:46

Don't suppose the GG will do anything to speed it up either.
The GG is in an impossible position.

Do nothing and get railed at for doing nothing.

Do something and give the screamers and hysterics the ammunition they need to cite "foreign interference" and swing the debate away from the current issues to "THIS IS WHY WE SHOULD BE A REPUBLIC!!!"

What would you do, in that position. Personally, I'd sit back, grab the beer and popcorn, and watch them hit the self-destruct button.

500N 30th Jul 2012 18:55

Why is the GG in an impossible position ?

The Gov't is still functioning, supply hasn't been cut or stopped,
we are far from the time that the GG has to step in.

And anyway, it would go to the polls before the GG has to step
in again.

hellsbrink 30th Jul 2012 19:04

Well, 500N, that was in reply to parabellum who posted the bit about the GG not "speeding things up".

Even if things were coming close to the point where the GG would have to step in, would you want to be the GG who did?

500N 30th Jul 2012 19:44

No, I wouldn't (want to be GG).

In all honesty, what reasons could crop up APART from stopping supply that needs the GG to step in ? I also think that numerous other ways to solve the problem would come before the GG stepping in.

If the Gov't becomes unworkable as it is, I am sure the independents would pull out which means they don't have a functioning Gov't so would need to go to the polls - and that would solve that problem.


hellsbrink 30th Jul 2012 19:48

You think that they wouldn't figure out a way to cling on to power for that little bit longer?

Andu 30th Jul 2012 22:06

You think that they wouldn't figure out a way to cling on to power for that little bit longer?
I've heard that that very point is what's causing quite a few people in Canberra some deep concern. With the constant pushing of conventional boundaries that Gillard has indulged in since usurping power ON A LIE, (the attempts, in part successful, to muzzle those sections of the Press that don't slavishly follow the government line, for example), the current government is very close (if not, in some ways, already past) to crossing that undefinable line where they will just ignore the rule book and say they must remain in power "for the good of the nation".

Whether any such action would be a hyper-cynical case of maintaining power at any cost ("whatever it takes?") or whether they genuinely believe that what they're doing IS good for an electorate (that is too dumb to see it) is in the eye of the beholder.

500N 30th Jul 2012 22:13

If the independent's pull support, do you really think Labor can say
that they can function as a minority Gov't ?

I think even in their dreams they wouldn't get away with that.

I'd have to read up but doesn't the PM go to the GG and say
she has the numbers to form a functioning Gov't ?

parabellum 30th Jul 2012 22:49

My remark about the GG stepping in was more about her politics than her position!

If the Independants pull their support would the Greens still support ALP in a vote of 'No Confidence' or are they daft enough to think they can improve their position by going for an election?

bob johns 30th Jul 2012 22:51

bob johns
Heard this morning that Kim Beazley ,our ambassador to the US is afraid that the alp is doomed,to come through the next election with as little as 30 seats .Is it likely that this excrecience of a govt will get that many, myself am praying for a total washout !Now wouldnt that be lovely?

500N 30th Jul 2012 23:02


Sorry, misread your thoughts.

I was thinking of posting something about the GG having to sack her Son in law
but decided to leave it out.

I don't want a total wash out of Labor because the alternative is the Greens who are likely to pick up many more seats and I don't want that as they are fundamentally opposed to my views on the majority of topics.

Also, I think the Libs need to have a decent opposition party and that is not the Greens.

david1300 30th Jul 2012 23:30

Kim Beazley's reported comments (remember that the report can stry from reality and the truth):
AUSTRALIA'S Ambassador to the US Kim Beazley has told American political figures Labor could be left with just 30 seats after the next federal election.
The former Labor leader is reported to have delivered a "deeply pessimistic" view of the Gillard government's "challenges" during a series of high-powered meetings two weeks ago in Washington.
But Mr Beazley is also said to have said it no longer mattered who was leading Labor and another leadership change was unlikely to make a difference.
It is believed the briefing was attended by senior US political figures from the Democrat and Republican camps, State and Defence Department officials as well as leaders of industry and media from both countries.
Sources confirmed two Gillard government MPs were also present during the briefing - one of the many held as part of the annual four-day Australian American Leadership dialogue from July 12 to 14.

Read more here: Former Labor leader Kim Beazley told US Labor is doomed | thetelegraph.com.au

eagle 86 31st Jul 2012 00:05

I note that 50 odd % say that the co2 tax has had no effect on them while 30 odd % say they have been disadvantaged by this tax. I fail to understand how either side can make a judgement. Income tax contribution is clearly annotated on your payslip or group certificate, gst is clearly annotated on every invoice or receipt. However the co2 tax, being very indirect, is a tax on "big polluters" who pass on their contributions with price adjustments. The price of most commodities fluctuates daily under the influence of many factors so any effect that could be attributed to the co2 tax is well and truly disguised and the true effect may never be known.

Andu 31st Jul 2012 00:14

Another 115 for CentreLink today...

Gold! Gold! Gold! Julia.

allan907 31st Jul 2012 01:34

Do forgive the little conspiracy theorist that lurks within me but when I click on the link to Pickerings blog I get a "Internet Explorer cannot display this page"

Anyone else get the same problem or is it just my computer and has no bearing whatsoever about Gillard abusing her powers?

gupta 31st Jul 2012 01:49


Take out the extra http in the address & add www

criticalmass 31st Jul 2012 02:13

This is purely personal opinion, but as I see it, Labor has few, but stark, choices:-

1. Go to the election in 2013 and face annihilation - possibly on a scale achieved by the Canadian Progressive Conservatives in 1993 (they went from a 151-seat majority to just 2 seats!)

2. Try to postpone - or indefinitely delay - the next federal election. Constitutional lawyers may care to examine the constitution to see under what circumstances this is possible, the duration such a delay may last, and ponder the consequences for the government - and the Governor-General - if this option is pursued.

3. Try to suspend the normal processes of executive government indefinitely and rule by executive decree - an overt dictatorship. This would need the backing of the military to succeed and would precipitate the country into a military-dictatorship. Just how far can Australia's military be trusted? I'd keep a watchful eye on any forthcoming appointments to senior military heirarchy between now and the end of 2013.

4. Try to rig the next federal election - given the Labor policy of "vote early and vote often" this is certainly one of the more attractive options, and the Australian Electoral Commission's "wrist-slap" penalties to those found guilty of electoral fraud certainly does little to discourage massive electoral fraud on a nation-wide scale.

5. Engage in covert action to remove a few Liberals in the lower house and try to replace them with Labor members. This requires the expedient "removal" of a few Liberals. Covert assassinations, accidents and disappearances have happened in other countries. Does anyone think Australia is immune to such events? I doubt it, given the demonstrated desire of this treacherous government to cling to power - at all costs. Rigging a few by-elections will be a lot easier than rigging an entire federal election.

6. Admit the government has lost the confidence of the electorate (for many reasons), prorogue parliament and seek an early federal election. As this is the only honourable thing to do we can be assured this is the one case which definitely will not happen.

I think these are the choices federal Labor has.

Now, a few other thoughts, again just personal opinion:-

The issue of who leads is now becoming largely irrelevant. The entire Labor brand is tainted, toxic and rotting in broad daylight. Over-weaning ambition and corrupt unions have so undermined it that the party is in danger of fragmenting the union movement and losing what little rank-and-file support remains. If it is of any comfort to the Labor die-hards, at least non-union voters have not lost confidence in this government - they never had any in the first place.

The loss of control of the nation's borders is the biggest ticking time-bomb facing the federal government and Labor simply refuses to do anything except direct the Navy to collect the invaders and escort them to our shores safely so they can carry on their work of subverting us politically and culturally. It is difficult not to conclude this is part of a Labor plan to ethnically, culturally and religiously re-engineer the population of Australia into a divided, strife-riddled bunch of ethnically and religiously-incompatible groups which can be played off against each other to ensure Labor remain in power decade after decade. This is the great plan of the men-of-the-left...and so far it is proceeding far better than they could ever have hoped. This is treachery, perpetrated against an entire nation by sheer inaction.

However, when it comes to treachery, none is more heinous than that of Oakeshott, Windsor and Wilke. No man in his right mind could countenance keeping this rabble of thugs, loons, spivs and union goons in power, yet these three continue to parrot their support. What was promised to them which keeps them toeing-the-line? What benefits after their inevitable defeat in the next election have they been granted? And why, given the record of this government at breaking promises, would an independent ever believe a single promise would ever be kept?

I have a feeling that the three most bitter people in the entire country after the next election will be Oakeshott, Windsor and Wilke...hung out to dry by Labor "for services rendered", pariahs in their own former electorates, unemployable in any further capacity in this nation (except possibly as a speed-hump in Woolworths car-park), their names forever recorded in Australian political history as the "Three Stooges" who gave Australia the worst federal government on record.

What a legacy to hand down to their families.

allan907 31st Jul 2012 02:27

Gupta Many thanks! Hadn't spotted the glitch.

500N 31st Jul 2012 02:40


Don't disagree that any of what you say can happen except the part about the military. I do agree with you re the GG being involved somehow.

I really can't see the ADF getting involved in the Political side of things.
We are not Fiji or some other third world country.

That is my HO.

Would like to know why you think the ADF would get involved.

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