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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

SOPS 23rd Jul 2012 13:15

What ever Matt is smoking...I want some. I was on an overnight in Sydney two days ago, homeless Australians on the street begging.

News reports show "refugees" on Xmas, logged on to the internet, learning how to claim benifits from CentreLink (or what ever its called)

Australians ( I mean, those born in Australia) with disabilities, struggle to get help from CentreLink. (And I have first hand experience of this)

I was born in Oz nearly 60 years ago, but had "trouble" getting through Brisbane Airport Customs last night, because my Australian passport would "not read".

I think I should hop on a boat....I think I might be better off...:mad::rolleyes:

hellsbrink 23rd Jul 2012 14:01

I was looking for something else and found this. Hope it doesn't offend someone... :E

http://phillthedill.files.wordpress....ster.jpg?w=614

SOPS 23rd Jul 2012 19:11

Latest Newspoll just realesed, Labor primary vote at 28 percent. Commentators on the weekend were saying that a poll number starting with a "2" would signal a leadership battle/election.
Lets wait and hope.

Andu 23rd Jul 2012 22:26

...and two boats yesterday.

How many today, I wonder?

Buster Hyman 23rd Jul 2012 23:35


The Labor opposition of the day led by Simon Crean with K.Rudd as Shadow Foreign Minister definitely did NOT support the assault on Iraq.
Australian Labor leader Crean backs Iraq war


Australian Labor leader Crean backs Iraq war

By Richard Phillips
1 April 2003


If there were any lingering illusions that the Australian Labor Party (ALP) opposed the US-led invasion of Iraq, they were dispelled last week by the comments of the party’s parliamentary leader Simon Crean.
Formally, the ALP disapproves of a war without United Nations endorsement. As the war was launched, the party supported motions in parliament calling for the immediate withdrawal of the Australian military from the Persian Gulf. Just days later, however, Crean indicated that this “opposition” would remain a purely token affair.
Speaking on ABC television on March 23, Crean declared: “The government’s decision to commit them [the troops] was wrong but we’ve got to be realistic about this. They are there, and what we’ve got to hope for, in the current circumstances, is that their task is completed quickly and successfully.”
In other words, on paper, the ALP continues to declare publicly that the war is “wrong”. In practice, however, it has no intention of insisting on the most elementary demand of any party opposed to the war: the immediate withdrawal of Australian special forces troops, warplanes and naval vessels from the Gulf....
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...t9z10CZUVoKANK

The Sultan 24th Jul 2012 01:02

Bob Carr?
 
Who is Bob Carr and why should any American give a s what he thinks? Sucking up to Romney will get you just as shrub got you. Last time I checked the US does not need anything from Australia. I think the US is better served supporting New Zealand who has cooler vacation spots and make better movies.

The sultan

RJM 24th Jul 2012 01:11

Foreign policy and wars notwithstanding...

28%! (Gillard's approval rating)

Something is going to give way very soon!

Dark Knight 24th Jul 2012 01:26

Returning to old issues and debates of the past???

However, if memory serves me correctly it was a Labor Government which introduced or fully supported mandatory detention of illegal entrants?

“Another Boat; Another Policy Failure” J Gillard PM. Do not hear her repeating that these days or was this just another `carbon tax faux pas’ (strange way to explain a blatant untruthfulness?)

The true problem is not about refuges it is about controlling one’s border, one’s country.

A country which cannot control its borders will lose it!

allan907 24th Jul 2012 02:13


Returning to old issues and debates of the past???
It's the only thing that the left have got. They've got bugger all to smile about in these dark days.

Tick, tick, tick, tick..........

28% and Abbott outpoints her as preferred PM :}

Red_Dog 24th Jul 2012 03:37

In the Red_Dog household, the mute button is automatically activated whenever the Red Ranga comes on screen, so I don’t get to hear her voice too often. (In the car, I simply switch stations, and if the radio is on in the house, I either endure it or leave the room [and if alone, I’ve been known to throw an epithet at the radio before I’m out of earshot],)
However, I am looking forward to hearing her make one speech - her concession speech. I won’t even mind if (or, far more likely when) she tells us that we sacked her because we are too dumb to understand the “wonnerful” things she tried to do for/to the country.
Julia, on the question of stepping down and fading into well-deserved political obscurity, to borrow a phrase from the election campaign of one of your revered predecessors, (you know, the one you and your immediate predecessor BOTH supplanted as the worst Prime Minister we’ve ever had) -“IT’S TIME”.

500N 24th Jul 2012 03:43

"Who is Bob Carr and why should any American give a s what he thinks? Sucking up to Romney will get you just as shrub got you. Last time I checked the US does not need anything from Australia. I think the US is better served supporting New Zealand who has cooler vacation spots and make better movies.

The sultan"


Bob Carr is a has been who has come back for a bit of the limelight.

However, on your second point, the US might not NEED anything from Australia but you can be sure it likes having Australia where it is and what it is, a nice, politically stable country that US troops and ships like to visit.

Oh, and don't forget that super secret installation, Pine Gap plus a few others,
all of which the US finds very useful to National Intelligence.

And don't forget we are a safe haven for US Warships, so much so that the US would dearly love to have a large sea base here.

And if we don't have anything the US needs, why are you now basing 2500 US Marines in Australia plus a heap of planes ????

US better served supporting NZ ? A bit hard considering most of your ships aren't allowed in NZ territorial waters :ugh:

criticalmass 24th Jul 2012 04:36

On a lighter note:-

What's the difference between the Australian television system and Julia Gillard?

624 lies-per-second!

eagle 86 24th Jul 2012 06:31

Are there sheep in Arlington Tx?
GAGS
E86

SOPS 24th Jul 2012 06:36

What have sheep in Texas got to do with anything?:E

On another note, I am sure that with a poll number of 28%, the backroom boys will be crunching numbers and leadership rumblings will begin in earnest again, no matter what Ms Gillard says or thinks.

If anyone (including KR) actually would want the job, thats another matter.

Edited to add..another boat with 160 on board just radioed to say the need "help":mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:, all the while the [email protected]@iots that are running the place in Canberra just dither with committees!!!!!!!!

Buster Hyman 24th Jul 2012 06:42


What have sheep in Texas got to do with anything?
The ALP want to know if they are eligible to vote.

SOPS 24th Jul 2012 07:22

And while I'm at it, one more question. Where is Mr Thompson?? Things have been very very quiet latley.

allan907 24th Jul 2012 08:11

I would refer you to the post by Squeaks at #1726 on page 87.



Alan Jones this morning, with names, dates, bank account details and the Welsh Witch's involvement.
Listen to the link and weep.

MattGray 24th Jul 2012 10:16

"Out, damn'd spot! out" wail the true blue believers, washing their hands and consciences of any responsibility for asylum seekers.



The flood of refugees, the spilled blood of innocent Iraqis has nothing to do with us Liberals they protest.

But anyway even if it was caused by the Liberal Government, then Labor was in cahoots as well, they claim.,

Let me repeat, the Labor opposition of the day led by Simon Crean with K.Rudd as Shadow Foreign Minister definitely did NOT support Australia's participation in the illegal invasion of Iraq, as anyone paying attention at the time would recall.

And attempts to re-write history citing alternative constructions from the loopy World Socialist Web Site, often described as an example of left-wing extremism, and by Glenn Beck, on numerous occasions while on air, as an example of "radical Islamists, communists, socialists" all working together can do nothing to change that fact.

Anyone who ever doubts that true blue Liberal believers dwell in a parallel universe need look no further than the extraordinary spectacle of them reduced to clutching desperately at left wing extremist straws in a failed attempt to make a case.

"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is" Churchill

Buster Hyman 24th Jul 2012 10:26

No prizes for second, but like Homer in Chocolate land, you never fail to amuse. "Too Socialist" eh? Comedy gold!

But, I guess there's not a lot of blood on Juliars hands, especially when the "asylum seekers" are drowning.

Good for you though Matt. When all the other True Believers have kept quiet in defending this embarrassing Labour Government, only the true zealots continue the diatribe. Bravo Sir!

allan907 24th Jul 2012 11:39


"The truth is incontrovertible. Malice may attack it, ignorance may deride it, but in the end, there it is" Churchill
Oh how true!

28% and Abbott ahead as preferred Prime Minister.

tick, tick, tick, tick.........

Squeaks 24th Jul 2012 11:53

http://jacksoncapper.com/basecast/fi...6ISUU3SY5J.jpg

MattGray 24th Jul 2012 12:30

Day 24 of the great big new scary toxic Carbon Tax and Tony Abbott discovers the sky still hasn't fallen

Meanwhile out there in the real world
  1. Unemployment 5.2%,
  2. GDP growth 4.3%,
  3. RBA cash rate 3.5%,
  4. CPI 2.2%,
  5. Investment 50-year highs.
Facts not rhetoric.

There's none so blind.................

parabellum 24th Jul 2012 12:52

Just one more time Matt Grey; the effects of the carbon tax were never going to be instantaneous, as you well know, they will definitely be felt when they are passed on. Any suggestion that the effects would be felt immediately indicate a typically disingenuous approach to reality by the ALP and their supporters, or the possibility of plain stupidity.

Takan Inchovit 24th Jul 2012 13:08

http://i.imgur.com/o5iss.jpg

Worried about the mess he's going to have to clean up after Jools!

SOPS 24th Jul 2012 13:19

That is probably the plan. Create such a huge mess that it makes the Libs look bad as they struggle to clean it up. They have done a great job of spending the surplus and going into a huge debt, creating a non stop flotilla to Christmas Island, bringing in a Carbon Tax that wasnt going to be....well you get the idea.

Buster Hyman 24th Jul 2012 14:12

Yep, everythings just fine n dandy in ALP land...


RJM 24th Jul 2012 14:21


Unemployment 5.2%,
GDP growth 4.3%,
RBA cash rate 3.5%,
CPI 2.2%,
Investment 50-year highs.
...despite the ALP's depradations!

hellsbrink 24th Jul 2012 15:58


The flood of refugees, the spilled blood of innocent Iraqis has nothing to do with us Liberals they protest.
And how, pray tell, are they actually "refugees" when they are paying THOUSANDS to get transport past so many "safe" countries to get to the land of milk and honey?

You see, that is where your argument falls apart. How can you be a "refugee" or an "asylum seeker" when you travel through so many countries to get to a ship which takes you past other countries to reach the one which will give you the most for nothing? And if you are so "downtrodden" and "persecuted", how do you manage to get the money to pay for that travel from Iraq (as per your ranting above) through other countries to get to the ship that will take you to Australia? So, you see, they are not "refugees" in the sense the Vietnamese were when their ships started crossing the seas as they have already gone through so many places, illegally, to get to the ship that will take them to Australia (unless you are saying that they take a direct sea route from Iraq to Aus.....).


Change it to "economic migrants", like they are in the EU, and then you can open your mouth about how all is good.

allan907 24th Jul 2012 16:25

Guys, we've got a half-way decent mod on at the moment. This thread needs to be kept alive in order to deal with the momentous moments that are about to break upon us. Please don't feed the troll. They're going to be gone in the not too distant future.

boofta 24th Jul 2012 19:20

No, please don't let it be too soon.
The longer it takes the more devastated labour will be.
I hope she drags out the election to the last possible day.
Hopefully to clear greens and labour permanently from
the political scene, we will need a massive mandate to
sort their mess out.

500N 24th Jul 2012 20:06

boofta

The problem is I don't think you will clean out the greens,
you could end up with more of them, although some political
parties are getting a bit smarter with preferences now and
re managing to null the Green vote (Vic - Liberal, last election)
which also has a detrimental effect on Labour.

I do think Gillard / Labour really are shooting themselves in the foot
- or feet in their case and the Liberals will need a big mandate to clean
up the mess.

The problem is, not sure Abbott is the guy to bring that to them
at an election and no other clear person in the wings to step up.

If the Libs had someone else who was credible, Gillard would be gone
by now. I think Labor knows Abbott isn't as electable as he thinks and
therefore think they could still win.

Either way, the Gov't is so hamstrung at the moment we need to
go to the polls and sort out the mess once and for all.

That's my take on it, happy to be corrected.


IF Gillard came out with a hard line policy on Asylum seekers
- like Howard - I think she could turn it around. I see even soft lefty types
now saying that it is beyond a joke, even to the extent of agreeing with
some of my extreme views on how they should be dealt with.
.

Andu 24th Jul 2012 22:24

You think the "trickle" of "asylum seekers" is bad now? Wait for two current Middle Eastern "unpleasantnesses" to be resolved (which both will be in the very near future) - Afghanistan and Syria.

In Syria, from the point of view of swelling refugee numbers, it doesn't matter which side wins. Whatever side wins, there'll be tens, if not multi hundreds of thousands of people fleeing the country quite genuinely in fear of their lives, particularly, IMHO, if the rebels win, when we'll see what the so-called "Arab Spring" really is. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see one or more standing room only ocean liners pull up at Christmas Island or suffer "distress" within 100nm, (but not before), reaching that same island.

Afghanistan's fate is a dead certainty - it will be a repeat of 1973-75 in Vietnam. The Western powers will withdraw having declared "victory" - and the Taliban equivalent of the North Vietnamese Army T55 tank knocking down the gates of the Presidential Palace will occur as sure as Allah made little apples within two years - if not sooner - of the last US troops leaving Kabul.

And then the flood (and "flood" it will be) of refugees will include many people we probably SHOULD accept - those silly buggers who believed the pious promises of the West that they would never give in and so joined in the fight against those who want to drag Afghanistan back to the 14th century.

If either of these scenarios comes to pass, (and I don't see how they can't), I have a question I've put before to Sarah Hanson-Young and Christie Milne: at what number of "asylum seekers" presenting themselves at our (non-existent) borders do the Greens say "too many"?

50,000? (We're not far from that figure already.)

100,000?

500,000?

A million?

If they can't answer that question, a have a follow up question: at what point do we cease to be Australia, or at least an Australia its current population would recognise?

CoodaShooda 25th Jul 2012 00:27

Andu

Given that the Greens policy calls for a national population of around 1/3rd its current size.........................................:hmm:


Matt
Sorry mate but I haven't voted Liberal (or National) for over 35 years. But the behaviour of your preferred party over the past 6 years has me strongly reconsidering.

MTOW 25th Jul 2012 00:38


Given that the Greens policy calls for a national population of around 1/3rd its current size
Yeah, SHY's open border policy placed alongside and the Greens' pronouncement of a 7 million sustainable population worries me a bit too.

What do they plan to do with the rest of us?

Comrades Lenin and Stalin (Senator[!] Lee Rhiannon's adored mentors) had a rather creative plan to deal with those troublesome "middle class" Kulaks back in the last 20's.

eagle 86 25th Jul 2012 00:39

Personal popularity is not necessarily associated with not being a good PM - Howard was personally despised by many people yet he is the second longest serving PM behind Ming who was also considered by many to be a pompous ass. The lobster's problem is she is not only personally unpopular but "her" policies are [email protected]
GAGS
E86

CoodaShooda 25th Jul 2012 02:15

MTOW

If Australia turned into a place where the majority of the citizenry supported the Greens current policies, I'll be happy to leave.

Fubaar 25th Jul 2012 03:28

Cooda, the Bolsheviks took absolute power in 1917 with less than 20% of the popular vote.

Sound familiar?

david1300 25th Jul 2012 04:08


Originally Posted by allan907 (Post 7312606)
Guys, we've got a half-way decent mod on at the moment. This thread needs to be kept alive in order to deal with the momentous moments that are about to break upon us. Please don't feed the troll. They're going to be gone in the not too distant future.

Maybe more than half-way decent :ok:

I do think keeping the thread alive is important, and the trolls will keep trolling along :\

CoodaShooda 25th Jul 2012 04:23

Fubaar

20% of the vote and a better army. :E

I have previously suggested that I see this government as being Stalinist in it's underlying nature. But could they forge an effective army from the radical unions and GetUp? :E

I guess if they continue to erode our defence capability we might get to the stage of having only a couple of rowboats, some paper planes and a boy scout with a pea shooter. But even they would surely be enough to deal with GetUp? :E

Perhaps we should be looking to how the Nazi Party took power in Germany as having become the blueprint for Socialist governance in the 21st Century.

They were also big on raising aggressive ideological support groups, crushing dissent, revising history and applying The Big Lie. :eek:

500N 25th Jul 2012 04:58

Do you all think Gillard will last until the due date for an election or
will she be replaced, and by whom ?

Will Rudd come back ?


FYI, she is my local pollie and has been for years, she has changed
in the last 6 years from what she was.

.


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