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Ovation 1st May 2012 01:34

I can't see Kevin Rudd having another tilt at the leadership given his toxic relationship with Gillard et al.

To all but the true believers, the ALP is doomed and even Rudd wouldn't be so vain or stupid to take on such a poisoned chalice.

Andu 1st May 2012 01:51

On the ABC this morning, I think it was Mark Riley from Channel 7 who said that Rudd was waiting for them to beg him to come back. Delusional? And if so, who's delusional? Rudd or Riley?

It might be very shallow of me, but I must say that whoever it is who's doing Jool's makeup has improved her look markedly.

Next on her list should be a voice coach.

Then that magic bloke from Jim Carey's "Liar, Liar" movie.

david1300 1st May 2012 01:51

Clive Palmer
 
I've never had much time for Clive Palmer, as he has come accross as an eccentric with more money than sense, and prone to make wild outlandish comments that seem ill-founded. This morning I heard part of an interview with him - the first time ever I have heard him at length, and not just in a media news-grab. Some of what he said made sense. I haven't yet listened to the whole interview (am doing so now), but here's a link for people to make up their own minds. (And no, I don't think he should be in parliament and I also don't think he will get pre-selected):

Clive Palmer talks to ABC Radio: Part 1 - ABC Brisbane - Australian Broadcasting Corporation

EDIT: The above link is to a video extract of the first 5 or 6 minutes. This is a link to the full interview - approx 23 minutes:
Clive Palmer - showman or savvy? - ABC Queensland - Australian Broadcasting Corporation (ABC)

It also has his account of giving away 150 (I think) Mercs to employees - I handn't heard that before.

Like This - Do That 1st May 2012 01:54


Originally Posted by Capt Sand Dune
The rot started with Goof I reckon. From what I understand, pre-Goof ALP consisted of more of those who had actually worked. I reckon I would have been more inclined to vote for an ALP that actually represented the interests of the worker rather than toadying to left wing "intellectuals", luvvies and looney Greeny types.

CSD, you might have heard the following from Kim Beazley Snr:


When I first joined the Labor Party (in 1940), it was made up of the cream of the working class. When I left it (in the 1970s), it was made up of the scum of the middle class
I despair of what the contemporary Liberal Party has become - spivs, swivel-eyed maniacs and industrial relations wrecking balls. But the modern ALP makes the Coalition look almost saintly; what an incompetent shower of *@#% this government is.

Kim Beazley Snr's observation was a pointer to the Party's current woeful state. The incoming 1983 government was a star-studded pool of immense talent (and I say that as someone who has NEVER voted Labor) but the party machine was by that stage breeding and grooming the current clowns.

RJM 1st May 2012 02:44


When I first joined the Labor Party (in 1940), it was made up of the cream of the working class. When I left it (in the 1970s), it was made up of the scum of the middle class
...and you're right to blame the rise of 'the machine' in Labor politics.

Ex federal ALP minister Barry Cohen says the same thing. He said that when he as a young MP in the 1960s he shook hands with a line-up of Labor's parliamentary old gusard he was alarmed at the number of missing digits on the rough old hands he shook.

In 2000, he was just as shockedd in a similar line-up at the effete, soft paws all fully fingered, that he shook.

The earlier bunch had been butchers and builders - 'on the tools', whereas the modern heirarchy had wielded nothing more physically dangerous than a pen or a phone.

BandAide 1st May 2012 04:10

The discourse here has given me something of an epiphany.

Labor used to be the party of the working man, but has become the party of the non-working man.

Pinky the pilot 1st May 2012 04:59


When I first joined the Labor Party (in 1940), it was made up of the cream of the working class. When I left it (in the 1970s), it was made up of the scum of the middle class
Heard a similar statement attributed to Clyde Cameron. Either way it is a fair observation of Labor.

I'm beginning to wonder if the current mob of clowns have adopted Graham Richardson's book title as their mantra for holding power.
ie;'Whatever it takes'

To me, Clive Palmer comes across as a bit of comedy relief. And as eagle 86 observed, he will not get preselection.

hellsbrink 1st May 2012 05:03


Labor used to be the party of the working man, but has become the party of the non-working man.
Not only in Aus, just look at the UK Labour Party as a perfect example. Bet ya could look at the centre left across the world and come to the same conclusions if ya looked hard enough.

Clare Prop 1st May 2012 05:51

When you have multi-millionaires such as Blair and Rudd leading Labour/Labor parties surely it's obvious they are not representing the folks "on the tools". More like men with wealthy career wives!

I'm no Labor fan, having grown up in the UK in the seventies, the winter of discontent etc...nor was I a fan of the Thatcher style of "greed is good" style government. The pendulum swung too far the other way. And because of what is happening in Australia now, after the next election there could be no effective opposition to whatever Tony and co want to get up to and I fear much the same thing could happen here.

Labor and their union mates have been shown as rotten to the core.
Labor ideology belongs with the dinosaurs and they must be really pissed off that we can see what rampant socialism combined with the fractional banking system ends up with (europe) when as Thatcher said "you run out of other people's money".

Thanks to the internet, it's almost impossible to fool any of the people any of the time, yep, we can even google the Constitution!

CoodaShooda 1st May 2012 06:29


after the next election there could be no effective opposition to whatever Tony and co want to get up to and I fear much the same thing could happen here.
I think you've just written labor's campaign strategy for the next election.

They don't have much else to hang their hats on.

While I'm not sure that our fear of the unknown will be enough to turn the voters back to them, I expect that I'll be even more nauseated by labor's repeated use of the term Tonyabbott before this is over.

Or, perhaps, their strategists will wake up to the lack of substance behind Abbott and broaden the attack. :rolleyes:

Worrals in the wilds 1st May 2012 06:52


I think you've just written labor's campaign strategy for the next election.
Didn't work up here. :E
That said, there are still at least a good 25-40% of the electorate who'll vote for them. I reckon I'm Facebook friends with every bloody one of them, too...:oh:

In leftie circles, the disability insurance and koala protection announcements are drawing attention away from the recent dramas and generating some positive spin. I'm not against either policy myself, but as you all know I'm a bit of a pinko at heart. :} Either way, I think both policies are designed to appeal to the many traditional ALP supporters who are currently leaning Green.

I don't think it will get them over the line for a minute (and a lot of lefties sneakily vote Lib every now and again, whatever they declare on Facebook :suspect:) but it would be wrong to think everyone has deserted them. They've still got a degree of support.

P.S. 27% two party in tonight's news poll and they're talking about dragging Rudd out of the swamp again :eek:! Not a really big degree, is it...:}

Andu 1st May 2012 10:24

7 news tonight and Mark Riley, quite possibly the greatest Gillard apologist outside the ABC, was more or less intoning "dead woman walking", saying that "powerful Labor insider" (Riley's words, not mine) Joel Fitsgibbon had publicly ditched her.

It will be interesting to see how long it will take the Sussex Street faceless men to move. Not long, I suspect. Although who, (apart from Rudd, who they loathe), they'll get to drink from the poison cup will be even more interesting.

- Shorten surely has lost all credibility for any future leadership with his "brown nose" comments on Sky. (Although memories are short, when expedient, in politics.)

- You would hope that Smith, after the ADFA debacle, is a non-starter. (Although there are many in Labor who don't consider anything to do with Defence matters a tuppenny ***, so maybe they'll go with him.)

- Crean? Possibly - as close to retirement as he (may) be, he may be willing to be the sacrificial lamb.

Is there anyone else? The drover's dog?

Worrals in the wilds 1st May 2012 10:58

I'd wager a glass of decent whisky on Crean. No more than that though.
Either that or they limp along until the next election, because as you say; it's a poisoned chalice. Better to be the stuffed man, the hollow man. After electoral annihilation (if you retain your seat) you can then claim you had nothing to do with the Big Nasty Government that got flattened. You tried to convince them, but they just wouldn't listen :uhoh:
Wussy, but that's politics.

We are the hollow men
We are the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
We whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass
Or rats’ feet over broken glass
In our dry cellar.

Shape without form, shade without colour,

Paralysed force, gesture without motion;

Those who have crossed

With direct eyes, to death’s other Kingdom
Remember us—if at all—not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men
The stuffed men.

T.S. Elliot, The Hollow Men.

CoodaShooda 1st May 2012 11:06

Crean would be the obvious choice to take the poisoned chalice.

Bring a perception of stability to the role, to minmise further erosion of what remains of the voter base.

Take the electorate through a 12 month roll out of the carbon tax, demonstrating that the sky hasn't entirely fallen in, despite Abbott's claims.

Apologise for the "unanticipated" collateral damage inflicted by the carbon tax and other Gillard/Rudd reforms.

Do the best to further poison the electorate's perception of Abbott.

Take labor to a loss at the next election, hoping to have clawed back a few seats.

Retire on a PM pension, having left a foundation for Shorten et al to build on.

Other alternatives would be Martin Ferguson or, continuing labor's performance since 2007, Peter Slipper. :E

Edit: Bugga, Worrals, You beat me to it again. :p

gobbledock 1st May 2012 11:24

Labor, Sluggers and polished turds...
 
I am a traditional Labor supporter through and through. But can no longer bear to watch this disaster unfold. The Welsh Carrot Top is an embarrassment. She is so busy worrying about her own fat arse that the meaning of the word Labor has slipped on by. Even more nauseating are people like Shorten, pathetic turncoat.
Labor are finished. They will reap the same fate as Anna Bligh and Co. Even Kruddy couldn't save them if he wanted to. The stench of death lingers heavy in the air. The worse thing is Slugger and his band of merry Liberal Work Choice zealots will get voted in by doing absolutely nothing except sit by sipping Crownies and eating popcorn and watch Labor do a Fukishima!
With the current figure at 27% and falling Labor will probably not even have a handful of seats after the election, Slugger will probably wing a minimum of 2-3 terms by which time Unions will be dead, buried and resigned to the pages o history. No, the Carbon Queen Girrard is a total embarrassment, she walks like
a man, speaks like a retard, has a hairdresser as her partner and holds the record for having everything she touches to turn to shite!

You can't polish the turd. And Australia's biggest turd at present is Labor. The more you try to polish it the more you see what is underneath - more turd.

sisemen 1st May 2012 12:00

As I said before ..... nothing that they can do will now turn the tide. Everything will be seen as a negative.

And that's not helped by Carr almost being declared persona non grata in Fiji. It takes a special kind of arrogance to piss off your neighbours one after the other.

RJM 1st May 2012 13:24


The pendulum swung too far the other way. And because of what is happening in Australia now, after the next election there could be no effective opposition to whatever Tony and co want to get up to and I fear much the same thing could happen here.
I'm worried that you're right, Clare. A good government requires a strong Opposition.

They're all mired in it, too. For example, why is it so necessary to bring down a surplus budget this year (apart from as a forlorn face-saving effort)?

Interesting times indeed.

And by the way, why does it matter if Pyne - or anyone else - put Ashby up to his complaint about Slipper?

sisemen 1st May 2012 15:52

Whilst an overwhelming majority is probably not a good thing the same factors as Queensland are likely to come into play.

The electorate will be seeking to punish Gillard for lying to them and continuing with a parliament against the obvious wishes of the majority. The continuing litany of cock-ups since then merely adds to the feeling.

That set in shortly after the last election when people woke up to the potential hung parliament and said, "Hey, that's not what I voted for. Let's go back to the polls". That Labor did deals with the obnoxious Greens and sold their party soul for a mess of pottage didn't add to the voter feeling of bonhomie. The same would have happened had Abbott concocted a deal.

Message? Don't fcku about with the people.

Lesson? If you do they won't be forgiving and you will likely surrender any chance of a comeback for a very, very long time.

parabellum 1st May 2012 22:29


no effective opposition to whatever Tony and co want to get up to and I fear much the same thing could happen here.
Which, in turn, should mean:

No Carbon Tax

No Mining Tax

No more leaky boats

Instant exodus for anyone caught with their fingers in the till.

Can't be all bad then?

Andu 2nd May 2012 00:47

Sorry parabellum, but I can't agree. The only absolute certainty is that, 12 months into a new Liberal Federal government, we'll all be complaining that they're renegeing on promises they made AND we'll be hearing about ministers and/or governing party backbenchers indulging in conduct unbecoming.

Look at the current Victorian Liberal State government (and to a [so far] lesser extent) the NSW Libs. I think it's something they put in the water in all parliament houses.


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