PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Jet Blast (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast-16/)
-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Andu 23rd Apr 2012 16:16

Sorry Matt. We'll have to agree to disagree. The woman embarrasses me any time she represents my country. In the past, I had few problems with a politician whose policies I disagreed with representing my country, but to borrow your own phrase, she's gone "a bridge waaaaay too far" too many times now saying in her speech of the day on the topic of the day whatever the focus groups say she should say for whatever occasion presents itself and then doing the opposite. As an ex-serviceman, the fact that she's going to do this at Gallipoli on Anzac Day (as surely she will) angers me.

I wish I could share your approval of our current Prime Minister, but I believe she has sullied that high office to a degree that none of her predecessors has done to date - and I'll admit, on both sides of politics, we've had a few in the past who were anything but admirable. In my opinion, the lady has plumbed new depths.

sisemen 23rd Apr 2012 16:23

Also, as an ex serviceman, I would agree with Andu.

I would suspect that it's only a serviceman or ex service or the immediate relative of a deceased service person that could really comment with any degree of right.

MattGray 23rd Apr 2012 17:10


I wish I could share your approval of our current Prime Minister,

Nothing I have posted here signifys approval of the Prime Minister Andu, but as such she does represent our country and nothing she has done AFAIK denigrates the troops.

On the contrary,she and the current Government have pulled out all stops to commemorate the centenary of Gallipoli.

So I simply refuse to engage you, or the twerps yapping at your heels, in further debate in your attempts to dishonour our war dead, many of my family among them, by using them as fodder to score cheap political points on a 'Net forum such as this.

Light Horsemen who fell at the Nek, Diggers at Polygon Wood, Broodseinde, Bapaume etc etc etc

Completely beyond contempt on the eve of ANZAC Day in which I will be marching!



AN $83 million package of measures designed to mark the centenary of World War I - including possibly recreating the voyage which took the first Anzacs to war - will be unveiled by Julia Gillard today as she makes her way to Gallipoli for Anzac Day.

Early this morning, Ms Gillard is scheduled to fly to Turkey for Anzac Day.

Before leaving, she will unveil further details of a series of commemorative events and initiatives to mark the centenary of Anzac which will run from 2014 to 2018.

The event will mark the 100th anniversary of the 1915 Gallipoli landings, and the major battles along the Western Front, and there will be events in Australia and at the battle sites.

Under the $83.5 million to be set aside today, there will be several initiatives including a scoping study for a restaging of the first convoys that left from Albany, Western Australia, in November 1914 and carried Australian and New Zealand soldiers to Egypt and Gallipoli. Ms Gillard has already announced a refurbishment of the First World War galleries at the Australian War Memorial and money will be set aside to restore war graves and ensure ongoing maintenance of memorials.

There will be a local grants program to help communities carry out their own commemorative projects, including funding for a commemorative arts and culture fund.

''Just as the first Anzacs helped define our national character, the Anzac centenary will be an important time to honour and reflect upon the service and sacrifice made by members of our Defence Force, past and present,'' Ms Gillard said.

The initiatives were based on recommendations by the National Commission on the Commemoration of the Anzac Centenary and developed in consultation with the Anzac Centenary Advisory Board, which is chaired by the former defence force chief, Air Chief Marshal Angus Houston.

Sydney Morning Herald

parabellum 23rd Apr 2012 22:51

Thread Locking Alert
 

So I simply refuse to engage you, or the twerps yapping at your heels, in further debate in your attempts to dishonour our war dead,
Careful Guys and Gals, this form of provocative abuse is the tip of the iceberg and where we have gone wrong in the past, suggest we ignore this poster now in his present persona and any others he may pop up with.

Lex Talionis 23rd Apr 2012 23:16

To say I'm disappointed is an understatement but I'm not surprised unfortunately.

This thread has now sunk to a new depth I did not think possible.

There is a political debate from some and I sincerely hope it continues but the comment made by Sisemen is completely out of line.

Letting that slag out of her home State
To use language like that is inexcusable no matter what your political feelings are.
I am not a supporter of Gillard or Abbott but I cannot see any justification for this type of disparaging personal attacks on any political figure.

I noticed a smilar comment the other day which I ignored where the same person suggested or hoped that a politician had HIV.

To me this person and his personal abusive attacks on any politician do not in any way belong in any political thread.

Personally I do not want this thread closed but with this sort of behaviour i can understand the moderators frustration.

BandAide 23rd Apr 2012 23:52

Sometimes, though, the anger needs an outlet, which I've found Pprune to be over many years. The mods gracefully delete my posts which they deem offensive; a right I accord them.

The fact is, though, that PM Gillard, and the constituencies she has always represented, are on thin ice when they attempt to associate themselves with Gallipoli. They are philosophically against those Diggers in just about every respect.

Cacophonix 24th Apr 2012 00:02

In truth the Aussies don't do war well (ask Breaker M). Rommel,of course, said with a couple of divisions of Kiwis the war would have been won. ;)

As an old Saffer I say bring it on....


Caco

Worrals in the wilds 24th Apr 2012 00:30

There's an Anzac Day thread running in D&G. How about taking the Anzac debate there if it's still open (sorry Tailwheel ;)) and leaving this one for politics.

The government of the day organizes the proceedings and no doubt they all take it very seriously, as most Australians do.
Anzac Day is far more important than party politics and should be above any partisan discussion.


In truth the Aussies don't do war well (ask Breaker M).
If you're being funny or amusingly provocative, this is not the time, Cacophonix. If you're aiming to start a serious debate about the Australian military's capabilities (which could be an interesting discussion) it's not the time either.

Buster Hyman 24th Apr 2012 00:33

Bob Brown was on Q&A last night. I managed to catch a snippet before I vomited copiusly in my tea...now, the transcript is available from 14:00 today so, I'm going from memory, but Tony Jones was probing ulterior motives for his departure.

Brown was asked if he was leaving to avoid the fallout from the Carbon Tax, to which he replied with a huge grin; "The Tax on Polluters? No." :mad:

Lex. Whilst I agree in principle with your point re "The slag" comment, I reckon you'd be lapping it up if it was a Keating quote. Perhaps not you personally, I don't know, but certainly some of your ilk.

Worrals in the wilds 24th Apr 2012 00:41

Bob...:E

Ovation 24th Apr 2012 01:48

MG


Completely beyond contempt on the eve of ANZAC Day in which I will be marching!
Quite agree MattGray. It's an extremely noble gesture for a patriotic fellow like yourself to come all the way from Burnaby BC in Canada to participate.

LT


I am not a supporter of Gillard or Abbott but I cannot see any justification for this type of disparaging personal attacks on any political figure.
Someone should then explain to us our PM is of fine upstanding unblemished character and worthy of leading Australia, because what we know now is Gillard lied to Australia on the Carbon Tax, we know she lived with some shady Unionist in Melbourne, and some might even know of her affair with the married Craig Emerson.

At the moment Gillard and her grubby mates are waging war on Australia in most deceitful manner, and they can never command or deserve respect.
:ok:

RJM 24th Apr 2012 02:59


Tony Jones was probing ulterior motives for his departure.
It was pretty gentle probing, Buster. Jones barely interrupted Brown, and it was more like a loving farewell from the ABC to dear Bob.

Jones didn't query Brown's assertion that the Greens were doing spectacularly well (when the Greens have slipped back in recent elections) and was only moved to question Brown over his claim that he had never advocated a world government based on one vote one value (which Brown definitely did, in his 'Fellow Earthians' speech). Nor did Jones query Brown's childlike faith in alternative energy for baseload power.

Brown seemed to struggle for words at times - eg the word 'dominant', trying predominant and domineering in describing ihs influence in the Greens' secret party room.

It could be that Bob's getting a bit addled. It will be interesting to see if Old Mother Milne can pull the Greens out of their shallow dive.

Worrals in the wilds 24th Apr 2012 03:11

It's a pity we have so few good TV interviewers in this country. Most of the interviews (on all the stations) are nothing more than fluff pieces. Andrew Denton is great, but I can't think of anyone else who stands out from the mob, who seem to be largely either hopeless sychophants or aggressive and full of leading or closed questions. :ugh:

The coverage they get in the US and UK is far superior and interesting to watch, even if you don't fully understand the issues.

Andu 24th Apr 2012 05:00

Remove Labor from soiled hands

MARK LATHAM
In finding links between the scandals engulfing Peter Slipper and Craig Thomson, commentators have picked off the relatively soft targets of entitlement abuse and sexual hi-jinks. As serious as these matters might be, there is something even more disturbing in their back story. Just as senior Labor figures have known about the rorting of the Health Services Union for at least a decade, the federal caucus has had a longstanding insight into Slipper’s character. He is one of the most egregious Good-Time Charlies to ever prance around the edges of Australian politics.

It is one thing, in desperation for numbers in a hung Parliament, to stumble upon tactical ploys which offer a temporary advantage. It is a different matter entirely to offer the speakership of the House of Representatives to one of the Parliament’s least-respected figures, especially when his clownish foibles were so well-known. Labor is paying a heavy price for putting backroom deals ahead of the public’s regard for moral integrity.

Just yesterday, as I was visiting the NSW industrial heartland region of the Illawarra, a Labor diehard approached me in despair at the state of the party. He had been a long-serving local branch president who confessed, in light of the Thomson and Slipper affairs, that he was “ashamed to tell people I belong to the Labor Party”. This is a common lament among the true believers.

When I resigned the party’s leadership in 2005, I was convinced its core values were being corroded by the growth of factionalism and union control. For the next five years, whenever people challenged me about my time in Parliament, it was usually in the context of my political record. But two years ago, something changed. Like the old-timer in the Illawarra, the issue has become one of embarrassment. People regularly ask me about the humiliation I must feel for having once led a corrupted rabble like the ALP.

Unhappily, my 2005 prophecy has been fulfilled. The erosion of Labor’s moral core now has a public face: its association with Thomson and Slipper. I cannot imagine anything more gut-wrenching for the party faithful, the salt-of-the earth types who grew up with the legends of working class decency under Ben Chifley and John Curtin.

Buster Hyman 24th Apr 2012 05:40


It was pretty gentle probing, Buster.
As I said, I didn't watch it all. Tony Jones is just another biased broadcaster in a country lamenting true journalism.

sisemen 24th Apr 2012 06:38

In order not to offend the delicate sensibilities of the lefties I've taken out the reference to 'slag' and inserted 'woman'. The words have changed; the sentiment hasn't. I used the original word because I was taking a leaf out of the book of lefty taunts for when Margaret Thatcher was PM of the UK.

And Lex, I appreciate your concern for the future of the thread but you really should not try to twist words:

I noticed a similar comment the other day which I ignored where the same person suggested or hoped that a politician had HIV.
This is what I actually said - 'twas a comment on the man's appearance.

Maybe he's got HIV - he is looking a bit thin and gaunt
and given Brown's proclivities it seems a reasonable observation to make and a possible explanation for his rapid exit from public life.

And Matt,

or the twerps yapping at your heels
I presume that, as I posted after Andu, I am the twerp to whom you were referring? It's a good job that, this time, knowing your style and that of your previous incarnations, I choose not to regard that as a personal attack - even though the mods may very well do.

Now that we've got all that cleared up .......:\

What I think that a lot of people are now feeling is that Labor, having screwed up royally in the Slipper affair, don't appear to have the moral rectitude to take ownership of their own dung heap and are trying (desperately) to blame the Liberals. It can only rebound on them, particularly with that other pile of stench, Thomson, reflecting poorly on the mismatch between Labor words and action.

It will be interesting to see the next lot of polls.

Captain Sand Dune 24th Apr 2012 10:05

Looks like the well worn tactics of the "true believers" are being employed again in an attempt to have yet another thread on Australia politics shut down. Don't feed the trolls.

mister hilter 24th Apr 2012 10:29


On the contrary,she and the current Government have pulled out all stops to commemorate the centenary of Gallipoli.
Matt, yer a couple of years (well, three) early with that statement. I hope the PM of the day does pull out all the stops and that that PM is a different one to the encumbent.

sisemen 24th Apr 2012 12:45

Cock-up of the day (as reported on the ABC News) - and I paraphrase.

Abbott (commenting on the inflation rate) "And it's good news that the Reserve Bank will be able to reduce the interest rate when they meet today"

Shorten (commenting on Abbott's statement) "We all make mistakes but the Leader of the Opposition ought to have known that the Reserve Bank meets on the second Tuesday of each month. Not today. And that's been the case since....."

ABC News: "Unfortunately the Minister for Financial Services of course ought to have known that the Reserve Bank Board meets on the first Tuesday of each month."

Mouth. Foot. Place into. Who says that the government haven't got a handle on things?:E

Cookies must be enabled | Herald Sun


Mr Shorten said knowing when the Reserve Bank board met was important for someone wanting to be Prime Minister, before getting it wrong himself – five times.

Mr Shorten repeatedly said the board meets on the second Tuesday of each month. It actually meets on the first Tuesday of each month, except January.

"We all make mistakes but when you want to be the alternative Prime Minister of Australia interest rates is just such an important issue and the Reserve Bank board has been meeting on the second Tuesday of the month since 1960 according to the RBA archive," Mr Shorten said.

"It's been meeting on the second Tuesday of the month since 1960. Mr Abbott doesn't do his homework."

"Everyone makes mistakes, let's be clear, but the Reserve Bank board's been meeting on the second Tuesday of every month since 1960, Mr Abbott's mistake in itself is neither here nor there ... what it to me shows is that you can't afford to trust him with the detail of the economy.''

"Everyone can get an individual number wrong, to err is perfectly human ... but when Mr Abbott thinks he can coast into office and not do the homework, that is a worry. It’s a real worry.''


Andu 24th Apr 2012 14:50

Bill Shorten isn't as stupid as you might imagine, sisemen. He knows that his initial comments making Tony Abbott seem to be a fool will be widely broadcast in the Labor-compliant MSM, while the retraction might rate a one column correction on the TV and radio equivalent of page 97 'below the fold'.

It's the modern day equivalent of St Augustine's(?) parable of the penitent who admitted in confession to spreading a false scandal. The good St A. told him to scatter a pillow full of feathers in the streets of Rome and come back to him after he'd done so. When the penitent returned having done as instructed, St A. told him to go out and retrieve every feather. When the man said that that would be impossible, St A. told him that the same applied to his original lie - that no retraction, however thorough, could ever undo the damage done by the original lie.

Bill Shorten and his media advisors know how true to life this old parable is. All too many voters, particularly but not only the younger voters, not particularly politically involved beyond what they see or hear in passing will have seen or heard of yet another (supposed) Abbott gaffe to add to the "women don't like him", "he's economically illiterate", "he's not prime ministerial", "he wears inappropriate clothing/costumes" (the budgie smugglers episode) and how many other "truths" created by Labor spinmeisters and eagerly repeated by the MSM will remember only the original comment made by Shorten and never catch any retraction (if it's ever made) by the MSM. Job well done as far as they're concerned.

sisemen 24th Apr 2012 15:21

You may well be right Andu - particularly with the unthinking 'I want to change the world' Y generation and the rusted on supporters.

However, I think that this government has gone beyond the tipping point and this incident (not particularly important in itself) will be seen as yet another example of the Gillard government incompetency by a team of extreme lightweights.

"They can't get anything right" - that's probably the message that gets hammered home.

rh200 25th Apr 2012 00:57


Bill Shorten isn't as stupid as you might imagine, sisemen. He knows that his initial comments making Tony Abbott seem to be a fool will be widely broadcast in the Labor-compliant MSM, while the retraction might rate a one column correction on the TV and radio equivalent of page 97 'below the fold'.
But they should also know the average punter expects Tony to put his foot in his mouth and is used to it. Whilst golden child Shorten is supposed to be slick. Those comments will be rolled out from know and to the end of time, to bug him. Its not the bit about getting it wrong, its the anybody who wants to be PM bit.

RJM 25th Apr 2012 08:09

Caught out trying to con us (I say):

On ABC Lateline this week, both Attorney General Nicola Roxon and Anthony Albanese parroted the same two excuses for whisking Slipper back into the Speaker's chair still with the unproved allegations of sexual harrassment hanging over him.

These excuses were A: that requiring Slipper to remain stood down would encourage a 'perverse response' of people trying to make politicians staznd down by making false accusations against them, and B: they tried to make a case of moral equivalence between allergations against Turnbull in relation to the HIH crash over which Turnbull wasn't stood down and was acquitted, and the harrassment allegations against Slipper. On the Turnbull matter they implied that the allegations against Turnbull involved the entire $500 million of the insurer's failure when the sum concerned in the Turnbull allegations was a tiny fraction of that.

On A, people might make false allegations for a hundred reasons other than to force a politician to stand down. In the way of anyone makking false allegations against Slipper or anyone else are statutes with heavy penalties (disingenuously not mentioned by the Attorney-General or Albanese). Here are two federal examples, section 41 of the 1914 Crimes Act and section 137.1 of the 1995 Criminal Code:

Crimes Act 1914

41 Conspiracy to bring false accusation

(1) Any person who conspires with another to charge any person falsely or cause any person to be falsely charged with any offence against the law of the Commonwealth or of a Territory, shall be guilty of an indictable offence.

Penalty: Imprisonment for 10 years.

Criminal Code Act 1995

Division 137—False or misleading information or documents

137.1 False or misleading information

(1) A person is guilty of an offence if:

(a) the person gives information to another person; and

(b) the person does so knowing that the information:

(i) is false or misleading; or

(ii) omits any matter or thing without which the information is misleading; and

(c) any of the following subparagraphs applies:

(i) the information is given to a Commonwealth entity;

(ii) the information is given to a person who is exercising powers or performing functions under, or in connection with, a law of the Commonwealth;

Penalty: Imprisonment for 12 months.

Attorney-General Roxon would know the law of defamation - so she is dissembling, as is Albanese; standard procedure for the Gillard government. The tactic might wash in student politics which is the usual level of this government of in-bred apparatchiks, but in the adult world it's called being deliberately deceptive.

sisemen 25th Apr 2012 09:45

What do you expect RJM? It's the equivalent of being caught with your hands in the cookie jar. And their mindset is the equivalent of the average 5 year old with a response of "It was the other boy that did it".

Considering that most of them have spent their entire working lives (and some probably earlier) immersed in politics, working for politics or unions, talking politics, and politicking it really appears that they have learnt nothing. To be no good at your chosen profession is a very, very sad state of affairs.

To quote Albanese "My life is devoted to fighting Liberals" - just a pity that he's no good at government or policy.

One could almost feel sorry for the true believers having to stick their necks out to try and support and apologise for them (almost - but not quite :E)

david1300 25th Apr 2012 10:03

@Lex T. In your post #750 you said:

"Back to the matter of Mr Slipper and there seems to be a certain double standards shown here by some.

Although I have always believed that everyone is innocent until proven guilty it looks like this has been going on for years even as far back as 2003.If this is correct and the then leader of the Liberal party was aware then how is this a problem for only the current Prime Minister?

If this story is true then it looks to be as though the inherent problem is one of indifference or political expediency at best.

When the facts come out and if he is found guilty of any improper acts or behaviour I think the question has to be asked why nothing was done about it in 2003."

In 2003 the only activity of Slipper that that was brought to the attention of the PM's Office that has been publicly reported is that Slipper was filmed in a compromising situation with another man indicating that he was having a same-sex relationship with this man. As far as I am aware Slipper was not married at the time (if he was, it was to his previous wife, not his current wife).

Are you suggesting that same-sex relationships are scandalous and politicians should be excluded from holding office because of their same-sex relationships? Maybe check with Penny Wong and Bob Brown how they would feel about this.

Or if Slipper was married at the time do you suggest that adulterous politicians should be excluded from holding office because of their adulterous relationships? Maybe check with Craig Emmerson (then married) how he felt/feels about this will he was in a sexual relationship with Gillard.

sisemen 25th Apr 2012 10:33

The answer David?


there seems to be a certain double standards shown here by some.

RJM 25th Apr 2012 11:03

Unfortunately, there is no presumption of innocence for Mr Slipper. My advice, from an experienced industrial lawyer, is that Mr Ashby is accusing Mr Slipper of an 'Adverse Action' under s. 351 of the Fair Work Act 2009, which provides that the onus of proof is on the employer (Slipper) to prove that his action (putting the hard word on Ashby) was not intended to do what the complainant Ashby claims it was intended to do.

This reversal of the onus of proof is friendly to complainants and unfriendly to employers. It's a controversial provision of the new Fair Work Act.

Guess who drafted the Fair Work Act and insisted on the reversal of the onus of proof?

Julia Gillard. Ha ha.

Here's the provision:

Commonwealth Consolidated Acts

FAIR WORK ACT 2009 - SECT 361

Reason for action to be presumed unless proved otherwise

(1) If:

(a) in an application in relation to a contravention of this Part, it is alleged that a person took, or is taking, action for a particular reason or with a particular intent; and

(b) taking that action for that reason or with that intent would constitute a contravention of this Part;

it is presumed, in proceedings arising from the application, that the action was, or is being, taken for that reason or with that intent, unless the person proves otherwise.

Clare Prop 25th Apr 2012 12:48

Another lovely example of Gillard being Hoist by her own petard

I wonder how she would pronounce that?

7x7 25th Apr 2012 13:46


Another lovely example of Gillard being Hoist by her own petard

I wonder how she would pronounce that?
At a guess, hyperbowlicly.

Worrals in the wilds 25th Apr 2012 14:48


Another lovely example of Gillard being Hoist by her own petard
I wonder how she would pronounce that?
'Screwed.' :}

parabellum 25th Apr 2012 22:44

Sky News earlier full of the prospect of another Liberal MP stepping forward to be the next Speaker, didn't get the name, nothing in the on-line papers at the moment. What is he hoping to achieve? Is he expecting to be bought off or is he seriously disenchanted, does he have 'history'?

CoodaShooda 25th Apr 2012 23:16

ABC TV ran it too but little info other than another facing disendorsement/unsafe seat preselection at the next election.

Has apparently been a Deputy Speaker in the past.

(Although how the libs could rate any incumbent seat as unwinnable at the moment is beyond me.)

Another snout in the trough; although it might be a case of the libs taking the piss and making another demonstration of labor's desperation to hold power and lack of ethics.

Noted too that ABC TV and Radio have yet to acknowledge the reverse onus of proof implicit in Ashby's allegations.

Edit
Apparently its Patrick Secker from SA. Lost preselection last month and no doubt looking for a larger pension.

Will labor pick up another liberal reject?

sisemen 26th Apr 2012 01:13

Secker has the backing of Windsor - so no real surprises there then.

Meanwhile, back at the trough....


Lawyers for embattled Labor MP Craig Thomson have asked a Senate committee not to publish Fair Work Australia's report into the Health Services Union.
Mr Thomson had previously said he had nothing to hide, but his legal team is now arguing the release of the report could prejudice any legal action taken against him.
Oops, sorry! Innocent until proven guilty.

parabellum 26th Apr 2012 02:52

Secker on the mid day news now emphatically denying he will run for speaker! More ALP dirty tricks?

Lex Talionis 26th Apr 2012 06:08


Lost preselection last month and no doubt looking for a larger pension.
Is there are politician who isn't thinking of that?

Secker on the mid day news now emphatically denying he will run for speaker! More ALP dirty tricks?
What about Lib party tricks for that matter?

The last thing mr Abbott would want is this to happen so what are the chances of Mr Secker getting a nice call from Lib HQ and after a cosy little chat releasing a statement that he had never considered the position?

The entire premise of the speaker coming from either side is flawed and should be changed.I believe that the speaker should be sourced from some other area independent of both the government or the opposition.

parabellum 26th Apr 2012 07:51


I believe that the speaker should be sourced from some other area independent of both the government or the opposition.
Couldn't agree more - I believe a few top jobs should go to people who have proved themselves elswhere, Speaker could go to the Chief Justice for a period of three to five years, Govenor General could go to the retiring Chief of the Defence Forces, again, for three to five years.

sisemen 26th Apr 2012 08:18

I'd go along with that as well.

Ex CDF for GG also makes a lot of sense. Already made an oath to HM Queen and proved it by long service. Saves getting one of those "progressive" types that are in favour of a Republic :E

Situation would, of course, change were we to go down the republican route. Even then the ex CDF would still be a good choice for President. That would leave the PM as "top dog" and would kill the clamour for a popularly elected President and kill the clamour for not having an ex pollie in that job.

Worrals in the wilds 26th Apr 2012 08:29


The entire premise of the speaker coming from either side is flawed and should be changed.
It isn't, if members of parliament from both sides of politics remember the promise they made to their electorates; to serve with integrity and honesty.

Appointing a speaker from outside the house really moves away from democracy in general and the Westminster system in particular.

Julius Caesar used similar arguments when he siezed control from the Roman Senate. Caesar was orginally appointed Dictator for five years by the Senate (from memory :\) but refused to step down. When you look at most of the leaders who followed him there wasn't much improvement with respect to integrity or public interest. :ooh:

The trouble with appointing people to power is that they don't always want to give it up. My personal opinion is that both Howard and Bligh would have hung on for grim death if they thought it were possible. It wasn't possible because of the Westminster system; be very careful before you advocate moving away from it. It may be flawed (what system isn't) but it guarantees the separation of powers. If a Chief of Defence or a Chief Justice of the High Court is guaranteed a berth there's no room to move if they turn out to be lousy.

If we've gotten to the stage where we can't trust the House of Reps to produce a decent, honourable person who acts like they're supposed to and in the interest of the country then the democratic system has failed in Australia...or we need some new pollies; again, from both sides of politics. That's up to the demos. If the demos is apathetic or fails to demand integrity from their pollies, then they get the pollies they deserve.

FWIW I don't think the demos is apathetic any more. I think it has been for the past ten years or so, but that's starting to change. I was listening to a gen Y FM station's night time show last night that usually has 0% interest in politics. Most of the time it's all about clubs, celebs, new music and similar pleasant inanities. Last night they were talking politics.

To me that's illustrative of the community mood at the moment. When even Davo and Dinger are discussing the Speaker's position between the Latest Hot Downloads and Rhianna gossip, it says to me that there's a new wind blowing.

Hope so, anyway.

We need to remember that the vast majority of MPs are not dishonest, not racketeers, not criminals. They might be fervent party supporters, but that's a long way from being a house that's unable to appoint a credible Speaker. There's been a lot of noise about a minority of MPs who don't make the grade, but that doesn't mean the rest of the House is corrupt.

RJM 26th Apr 2012 09:06


but that doesn't mean the rest of the House is corrupt.
All the more reason for the lot of them to do whatever they can to regain the public's respect and trust.

Worrals in the wilds 26th Apr 2012 09:20

Correct. Otherwise they're first through 150th to the wall when the wipe out comes. That's what they were elected to do and they should get off their arses and do it. :*

Shorten didn't help himself on the Sky (via the ABC) about thirty seconds ago when they quizzed him about his position on Slipper. 'I haven't seen the PM's press release but I support the PM.' 'Hang on, you haven't seen it but you support it'? 'I support the PM's position' [even though I don't know what it is]. :eek:

Honestly, they're not worth feeding! :mad:

Are you the one who's gonna stand up and be counted?
Are you the one who's gonna be there when we're shouting?

Stand up, stand up and be counted!
Stand up, stand up and be counted!

P.S. If all you get is a green screen, right click, select setting and disable hardware accelerator. There's a whole bunch of bad 1980s haircuts you don't want to miss out on and we don't want any green on here....:E:}


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:02.


Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.