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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

Croozin 25th Oct 2012 07:42


Would an English born Caucasian (like myself) wife be less representative of Australia and therefore less worthy to have taxpayer funded jaunts around the world then?
I saw Bob Carr justifying the huge expenditure on his wife's travels and had thoughts more or less parallel to yours, Clare P.

In short, using Bob's rationale for spending all that taxpayers' money on his ethnically-politically-correct wife, the short answer to your question is "Yes!" Extending Bob's logic, (and not very far), should his wife be white Anglo Saxon/Caucasian, he could not justify - (or at least so easily) - taking her on such a junket .

Welcome to Julia's world.

Clare Prop 25th Oct 2012 08:11

I think that makes him a "racist nut-job" then. Not a good look for a foreign minister.

Mrs Carr's ancestry had never even occurred to me until now...but if mixed race is superior to say anglo saxon (like him) then... :sad::confused::{

No, I just can't get my head around it. There was me thinking we were all part of the human race.

I'm sure McTurd will have the answer.... It must be Tony Abbott's fault for having an caucasian wife, of course! That makes him a racist as well as a misogynist! :confused:

Worrals in the wilds 25th Oct 2012 09:36


I'm just trying to work out which bit of this whole Bob Carr thing I should be taking offence to :E
All of it. He's just generally offensive. Of course if his wife had her own life and her own job she'd be too busy for all of that; oops, I just referenced Rudd. Didn't mean to...

Justification of expenses is the name of the game. The rest of us are being told to tighten our belts to protect the bloody surplus but the Powers That Be are too important for that. I'm thinking about installing a Mad Max style pig farm in the second bedroom to generate power (just have to get past the Body Corporate, the piggies are standing by :}) but the Carrs are still able to wing their way around SEA on taxpayer funded business class tickets because one of them's Effnick. Of course lots of Aussies are effnick and don't get taxpayer funded tickets, in fact many of them run small businesses and are getting hammered by government costs, but let's just coast past that. 'Mysogynist! Racist'! Did I cover the counter-argument? :bored:

This week's 'dog ate my homework' excuse from a crappy, crappy government.

Don't worry fellahs. We're waiting. We waited in Queensland and we're waiting for you. Sooner or later you have to face up to the ballot box; you can't hide for ever. :E

Sure, the opposition will suck, and we're waiting for them too. However, you won't care cos you'll be history, you gutless, snivelling, self serving toerags who have the audacity to call yourselves a workers' government. Maybe this time next year some of you will actually be working for the first time in your lives, that's if anyone wants to hire you. :ooh:

Clare Prop 25th Oct 2012 09:44

Right. Longing to see them spin this into something positive.

Meanwhile has anyone got a link to somewhere I can get a Julia Gillard mask for Halloween? I already have the pointy hat and the broomstick.

emeritus 25th Oct 2012 09:45

Thanks Worrals. You have saved me a lot of typing !

Emeritus:D:D

Worrals in the wilds 25th Oct 2012 09:50

Woolies have got pumpkins. :}
Thanks, emeritus. :)

Like many bogan Aussies, I subsribe to the Pay Day is Takeaway habit. Come payday, if there isn't an electricity bill looming :{ I get takeaway dinner. I frequent two establishments; both undeniably effnick (both use the 'point to the photograph on the menu' school of ordering). Both have recently started offering amazing deals. Buy a main, get the bread/drink/entree free type deals.

While waiting for my takeaway I've asked both owners how they manage to offer the deals. They both shrugged, looked sad and said basically 'because we have to' :sad:. These are not union friendly establishments; my shirts have scared them before :}. They're probably not DIAC or Health Department friendly establishments either, but even after paying everyone cash and dodging the inspectors they're still struggling. They both do good food, work their arses off and by rights should be raking it in, but they're not. For many people, takeaway is now a luxury, even on payday. I'm lucky. :(

These are the true Aussie effnicks, not the people jetting around SEA because their husband is a pollie. If Carr wants to 'engage' (hate that word :yuk:) with effnick Australians he'd be better off staying home and going out to buy food without a camera crew and press secretaries floating along for the ride.

If a camera crew turned up I have no doubt both restaurant owners would be telling them how business is great, everyone's buying and of course the cooks are all on legitimate visas and that cockroach must have just wandered in :E. Talk to them as a real person (rather than a journo or a pollie with an entourage) and the story isn't so rosy.

I reckon both of them (both Australians) would love to travel back home and catch up with the rellies they're supporting, and take their own Aussie kids along, kids who have their own hopes and expensive dreams in between studying and dishing up spring rolls/samosas for Mum and Dad. Maybe Carr would like to spring for some tickets. It would be a small price compared to what he seems to have been chalking up at our expense for too little benefit :mad:.

Andu 25th Oct 2012 20:46

Latest news... the Nauran Government will charge a "visa fee" of $1000 a month for any asylum seeker staying on the island.

The whole bloody world see us as suckers to be milked until dry.

Buster Hyman 25th Oct 2012 22:44

Now, I wonder, if the deal was that if you get accepted as a refugee, you have to repay the processing cost, would the flow continue? If it was like a HECS fee, how would that go I wonder?

hellsbrink 26th Oct 2012 03:59

As if that would happen, Buster.

The poor, innocent, frightened refugees won't have to pay a cent, it's inhumane and they don't have any money (mainly because they spent it all on the the water taxi from Malaysia).

Captain Sand Dune 26th Oct 2012 05:23


ARMY chief David Morrison will sound the alarm today on Defence budget cuts, saying he wants to ensure troops are not sent to war poorly equipped because of "misconceived strategy or economic stringency".
In an extraordinary public intervention by a senior serving Australian Defence Force officer, Lieutenant General Morrison warns that further cuts could pose a real risk to the effectiveness of the armed forces and a repeat of "mistakes" made after the Vietnam War.
"We are approaching a point where doing more with less risks becoming a cavalier disregard for the ability of forces to survive against credible peer competition," General Morrison will tell Canberra University's National Security Institute.
The army commander, who has been in the job since June last year, says he is speaking out in his role as the army's main champion in the public domain.
"The current straitened fiscal climate poses a very real risk to the army's approved plan for development out to 2030," he will say.
"Fortunately, as matters stand today, I can place my hand on my heart and tell you that we are able to conduct the operations that we have been assigned with decent prospects of success and commensurate acceptable levels of risk to our troops.
"But we are approaching a point where doing more with less risks becoming a cavalier disregard for the ability of forces to survive against credible peer competitors.
"No rational voice in this debate contends that we should benchmark our army against the Taliban."
General Morrison is taking the rare step of voicing publicly the concerns many officers hold privately about the impact of cuts that have seen defence spending reduced in the May budget to its lowest levels in decades.
Defence spending was slashed by more than $5 billion this financial year, and the Rudd government's promise to increase defence spending by 3 per cent a year was abandoned.
Because the government has insisted that the ADF will have the major new ships, submarines and aircraft promised in the 2009 defence white paper, there is concern that the army will be the main target of further cuts.
General Morrison says that as delivery of the promised 2013 white paper nears, he is hearing again claims that Australia is unlikely to send the army away to another foreign entanglement after Afghanistan - "that what needs to happen is to mind our own business and concentrate on a strategy of denial of the sea-air gap (to Australia's north)".
He notes the severe cuts to the army after Vietnam. "I would hate to see the mistakes of that era repeated today, either in the name of misconceived strategy or economic stringency," he will say.
"Frankly, having been a part of INTERFET (the East Timor intervention force) in 1999, as a senior soldier of the army that had been seriously weakened by the proponents of such thinking, this fills me with concern.
"This is historical amnesia that is breathtaking in its complacency. I resent having to defend the rationale for an army from first principles all over again - but if I have to do so, then I will."
General Morrison says that even the most optimistic assessments of Australia's strategic environment over the life of the next white paper suggest the nation lies in an unstable region where the global balance of power may be contested.
"The strategic environment in our region in the aftermath of Vietnam was actually much less ominous than it is now," he says. "This is not the time to reduce our deployable military capability.
"The idea that we can will away war because we are about to withdraw from one that went longer and ended less conclusively than we liked is wishful thinking."
General Morrison says despite its mastery of violence, the army is also a fragile organism and its capability must be painstakingly built up and nurtured.
"This takes time and significant public funding," he says.
"Yet its capability can be relinquished disturbingly rapidly if it is not carefully developed and sustained."
He adds that his most pressing concern is that the army's "viable and appropriate plans will falter unless the correct strategic choices are made over the next two or three years".
He says the army is battle-seasoned with troops led by officers and non-commissioned officers with significant combat experience.
"That is an intangible asset that few armies in the world possess in such abundance and I sincerely hope it is not squandered," he says.
General Morrison argues against any plan to reduce the size of the army as operations in East Timor and the Solomons end next year and as the number of troops in Afghanistan is reduced.
"I think we are about the right size and that our modernisation plan is sound, being derived from a sober assessment of both the changing character of war and the tectonic shifts in the global system associated with the rise of China and India, assertive Islamic militancy directed against the West, rapid population growth manifested as intensified urbanisation, a changing world climate and what seems to be a semi-permanent global economic crisis," he says.
the issue of budget cuts, General Morrison stresses that "the civil authority is supreme" and the ADF has always shouldered its share of the burden of finding savings to support the government of the day in reaching the sound fiscal position upon which Australia's security ultimately rests.
"One of the government's most pressing stated objectives is the restoration of a budget surplus and, as a service chief, I understand the context in which I must operate to assist them in that endeavour," he says.
General Morrison says that after the May budget there was some alarmist, and not entirely accurate, commentary likening the current ADF to its parlous state on the eve of World War II.
The ADF is now in substantially better shape than it was in 1939 or 1979 because of the substantial investment that followed the 1999 East Timor crisis. But, he adds: "The current straitened fiscal climate poses a very real risk to the army's approved plan for development out to 2030."
In the 1980s, Defence capability was allowed to deteriorate through chronic underinvestment, particularly in the army.
"Some of this was undertaken in the name of an anticipated 'peace dividend' in the wake of our withdrawal from Vietnam and the end of the Cold War, but it was compounded by some myopic strategic policymaking, based on historical amnesia and a poor understanding of Australia's geography and alliance arrangements," he says. "I speak for all my leadership group, and all my living predecessors, in averring that the Australian army has an obligation to the government to be capable of providing and sustaining ready, relevant conventional military formations capable of fighting against a credible peer competitor."
General Morrison says both the strategic and fiscal cases for sustaining the current army are sound. He also tackles strongly the concept that Australia can rely on an "air sea gap" to its north to protect it.
He says the view that Australia can rely on that gap to defy invaders is based on poor history and even worse geography.
Guts move by the General:ok:. Not very career enhancing, but I guess a 3-star's DFRDB pension is fairly sizeable!This is a Bigge Deale in the Defence world.
Other than Angus Houston's disagreement with the Howard government over the "baby overboard" episode, I cannot recall the last time a senior ADF officer publically disagreed with government policy. Would have loved to been a fly on the wall in Minster Smith's office!
More evidence of this government's incompetance:mad:

Worrals in the wilds 26th Oct 2012 06:23

Good for him. I know it's not the military way, but if the ADF publicly jumped out and down a bit more often, the average person on the street would be more aware of the cuts this government are making. :ooh:

Likewise the Border Agencies, but they're gagged by the Crimes Act and Career Enhancement 101, which is even more binding :sad:. I wish one of their head honchos would speak out about the lack of staff and recources; but that won't happen while the departments are run by career public servants who'd mostly sell their own grannies to the Somali pirates if it meant they got a promotion. :ugh:

Croozin 26th Oct 2012 09:01

David Morrison has just committed career suicide - and I'm sure he knows it. However, with the same move, he'll have earned the respect of damn near every man and woman in uniform.

Mainly because of the damned "system" in Canberra that culls out the mavericks and go-getters long before they reach * rank, not a hell of a lot who get to 3* rank manage to maintain that respect of the lower ranks.

Well done GENERAL Morrison.

SOPS 26th Oct 2012 13:54

The man should be PM...2000% better than any of those sorry souls we have in the Treasury benches at the moment. My full respect to him.:D:D

500N 26th Oct 2012 14:04

Well done to the General :D:ok:

Re
"David Morrison has just committed career suicide"
not always the case. He also only really has 2 jobs he
can go to but also may already know he isn't in the
running.

allan907 27th Oct 2012 02:25

This lobbed into my inbox today. I'm sure that it does not come from a 'senior AFP officer' and that it is one of those 'whip 'em into a frenzy' type of things but if only some of it is true then it really does make you wonder where this Government's aims lie.


According to this Australian Federal Police Officer, who obviously can never be named, here are some of the facts he believes you should be aware of.

[1] Currently the Federal Police are not producing as many drug busts due to the millions of dollars of their budget being put into intercepting illegal boat people.

[2] When the boat sank last year off Christmas Island, the Australian authorities were throwing life jackets to the children and the adults were swimming to where the life jackets were, then pushing the children under the water and taking the life jackets to save themselves.

[3] When the boat people arrive here, they have already printed out from the internet their rights and have a list of welfare benefits that they demand from the Australian Government.

[4] Whilst in detention they tell the guards that they are here to serve them and the Federal Police have already investigated a number
of assaults on detention staff resulting from them "not respecting" the detainees.

In other words when a guard doesn't respect or serve these illegal boat people to "their" satisfaction, they believe it's fine to backhand
them to gain a little more respect.

[5] After spending around 6-9 months in detention, the illegal boat people have approximately $10 000 saved in "welfare payments" from the Australian Government. They then send the money home and arrange for the next family member to come here on a boat.

This means we are actually paying for the continuous flood of illegal boat people via the welfare payments provided to them.

[6] The boat people are all "given" mobile phones and allowed to phone whomever and where ever in the world they please. The reported cost of the combined telephone bills for the first quarter of this year was around $5,000,000.
Yes, you read correctly, five million dollars all provided by the Australian taxpayer.

[7] Residents and the Federal Police on Christmas Island only have dial-up internet which we all know is impracticable in today's
internet age. Yet all the detainees have broadband internet care of the taxpayer.

allan907 27th Oct 2012 03:59

Some interesting stuff coming out of the pre-publication of Maxine McWho's book.

It will hopefully smash Wayne Goose's reputation for ever. It seems that not only did he cock up the Mining Tax having been entrusted to get everything set up by Krudd, he couldn't even muster enough courage to face Krudd to tell him that he was going to stab him in the back.

So, to sum up, Swanny is an incompetent coward. Pretty much my estimation of the maggot since square one. And the newark continues to do damage :yuk:

priapism 27th Oct 2012 06:45

Seems the faceless men are at it again.Wong senate snub risks factional flare-up

Like This - Do That 27th Oct 2012 09:00


He also only really has 2 jobs he can go to but also may already know he isn't in the running.
A bit like MAJGEN Cantwell perhaps .... there was a time during Ken's reign that John Cantwell was mentioned as his replacement; known for his massive operational experience, intelligence and empathy for soldiers (and RAAC to boot :ok:)

Alas, not to be but the CA has just (a) endeared himself to every member of the Army (or at least those whom he hadn't previously fallen out!) particularly those who lived the horror of the post-Vietnam era and (b) drawn a public line in the sand that makes him a very risky target for the Minister to take on.

I'd still like my beret back ....:}

Takan Inchovit 27th Oct 2012 11:22


Seems the faceless men are at it again.Wong senate snub risks factional flare-up
Now I'd like to see that considered as sexist! :E

Worrals in the wilds 27th Oct 2012 11:35


Seems the faceless men are at it again.Wong senate snub risks factional flare-up
IMHO, they may have a point.

From the article:

Voters will be dismayed that a talented senior economic Minister in Penny Wong is not deemed fit to lead the Senate ticket.

Laborís dominant Right faction made good on a promise to install their man - parliamentary secretary and union heavyweight Senator Farrell - in the top spot ahead of the Finance Minister. Ms Wong is widely considered as one of the governmentís stand-out performers.
Dunno about that. Wong's not a bad performer compared to some (don't get me started on Albanese cos you really don't want that :mad:) but she's a key figure in a very stinky government. It's a bit like talking about a stand-out measles epidemic; either way it's still a measles epidemic.

Labor senators like Don Farrell and David Feeney barely registered with the average voter...
And that can only be a good thing. Let's see, run a key figure in a Labor government that's so off even art students and big dudes in fluro shirts / CFMEU hats are spitting about them, or run some Senator from the Shoppies who most importantly, no-one's ever heard of. :suspect::}

Saturday Night Conspiracy Theory time ;)!

I've bagged out Howes and Thomson on here before (and will continue to do so) but the union movement still retains some very smart operators; operators who realise that the ALP is in very serious trouble. Operators who are getting earbashed by their members on an hourly basis. I reckon they know full well that barring some sort of political miracle Labor is going to get flogged at the next election; that many of the 'key players' will get annhilated at the ballot box as they did in Queensland (and as the Libs did in 2007) and that it's better to keep anyone who has anything to do with the current government well away from the limelight. That way, they may retain a Senate majority, because my hunch is that played right, a lot of dissaffected Labor voters will vote Lib in the House of Reps but Labor in the Senate to keep Tone and the gang of merry mining magnates in check.

Played right, that is. :uhoh:
If that's the case, putting a serving Minister in a detested government up as Senator Numero Uno is a baaad idea. Better to hide her up the back end of the loo roll (sorry, Senate ballot paper :}) behind the Fishing And Lifestyle Party and hope most people just tick the party box.


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