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-   -   War in Australia (any Oz Politics): the Original (https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/477678-war-australia-any-oz-politics-original.html)

owen meaney 16th Oct 2012 04:35

Clare, Chris tried in Cabinet meetings to embrace the Howard solution but was prevented from.
He believes in the traditional labor ethos.

500N 16th Oct 2012 04:36

I see Indian cricketer Sachin Tendulkar awarded an AM in the Order of Australia, Julia Gillard announces in India.


Obviously wanted to get off to a good start on her trip
so picks a local hero to bestow an honour on.
She said Tendulkar was special !

Me, cynical, no, never :O

Worrals in the wilds 16th Oct 2012 04:45


She always maintained that the only gentlemen that came through the Library were Beazley & Howard.
I'd believe that. Howard had a good reputation up here for being very courteous.

I hate to tell you this but a photo exists of Kim atop a tank when he was Defence Minister.
Did he get inside though? I liked Beazley as a pollie but there's no doubting he's a big unit.


That is a fattist and sexist thing to say WITW
HTF am I a sexist? I'll cop fattist, but sexist? :confused: If I were a sexist I'd hardly work in an industry where women are a minute minority.

Have you ever missed out on a job purely because of your gender even though you were the most competent applicant? I have; twice. That's sexism. I don't (usually) beef about it because far worse things happen to women around the world.
Humph. :*

owen meaney 16th Oct 2012 05:10


HTF am I a sexist? I'll cop fattist, but sexist?
The word sexist has new meaning now. Anything you say about some one of the opposite sex is sexist. Geddit.

CoodaShooda 16th Oct 2012 05:16

The fishwife-in-chief has been interviewed in India, accusing Abbott of cowardice in not raising his tow-back policy with SBY.

It's obviously the line of the day for labor pollies.

However, on considering my reaction to hearing the interview, it struck me that she is diminishing the office of Prime Minister every time she opens her mouth these days.

Just what is the Rudd/Gillard government trying to achieve?

It's main players don't seem to have progressed beyond university politics.

Clare Prop 16th Oct 2012 05:27

Fair enough Owen, but who is tying his hands?

I ask because I just don't "get" how this government works or how they can call themselves democratic.. eg if the Immigration Minister can't make decisions about Immigration, why have a cabinet at all? If he is in a party that won't let him do what he thinks is best why does he stick with that party?

500N 16th Oct 2012 05:47

"The fishwife-in-chief has been interviewed in India, accusing Abbott of cowardice in not raising his tow-back policy with SBY."

I thought the general consensus was if you are overseas,
you don't talk about Domestic Politics except in exceptional
circumstances.

It is rude to the host country and muddies the waters.

Obviously another example of the standards dropping.
.

CoodaShooda 16th Oct 2012 06:01

It must be the new paradigm at work, 500N.

Take everything into the gutter.

Andu 16th Oct 2012 06:06

When I lived in Malaysia, my (local) boss told me that "yes can mean many things in Asia", i.e., call it politeness, call it culture, call it whatever you will, but a Malay - (= an Indonesian) - will do any and everything to avoid saying "no" directly to you. For that reason, if you know your stuff, you avoid, at all costs, putting a Malay/Indonesian into a position where he might want to say "no".

For that reason, (as has been mentioned already on other sites to this), the big cheeses on both sides of any negotiations that might be even marginally controversial leave all the touchy (or even possibly touchy) details for underlings to handle behind the scenes, with the two big cheeses staying far away form any such topics until they've been resolved.

Tony Abbott's advisors (and I suspect Julia Gillard's advisors as well) are quite aware of this and he followed the correct protocol in having his shadow minister handle this topic with his opposite number. Gillard and her spokesmen are quite aware of this, but this doesn't stop them drumming it up as a "scandal" in an attempt to further blacken Abbott's credentials. Sadly, with the largely Labor-compliant MSM we have in Australia, few of whom will call Labor out on this, it's an effective ploy.

500N 16th Oct 2012 06:09

"It must be the new paradigm at work, 500N.

Take everything into the gutter."


Must be.

I remember I think it was Howard who said
he wouldn't answer questions re XYZ which
used to annoy the hell out of the media !

parabellum 16th Oct 2012 06:16

I don't think she ever had any standards up anywhere! Interesting that she doesn't see the need to be bothered by time honoured and established protocols when dealing with Asian countries though; the way she barged into Malaysia with her boy friend was a classic example. Now Gillard sees fit to call Tony A. a coward for not mentioning tow-back boats with SBY, maybe she doesn't know that to have done so would have been the height of rudeness, it is a matter that has to be discussed by the minions first, who will upward brief through the levels, until such time as the subject is considered appropriate for discussion at the top level and not before. Clearly the ALP and full supporting media are totally ignorant of the Asians ways.:rolleyes:

EDIT: Beaten to it by Andu!

owen meaney 16th Oct 2012 06:38

Clare, good people in the Labor party are waiting patiently. I would guess Chris Bowen sees the need to keep his enemy close. If he had fallen on his sword over disagreements with cabinet would that have helped.

BTW, one can assume the Coalition DID talk to Indonesia about their policy, it is something Bang Bang and Tony Abbott would keep quiet.

Croozin 16th Oct 2012 06:42

You couldn't make this up.

From last night's QandA.

The new, "authorised" Bill Shorten dictionary, where "It's still a free country" means, (in Shortenspeak), "I'm free to re-define words to suit whatever I want them to mean".


VINCE DEL GALLEGO: A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive. A misogynist hates women and girls. Julia Gillard announced to Australia and the whole world that Tony Abbott is a misogynist, which is a false statement with deliberate intent to deceive. Is the real Julia Gillard a confirmed liar?

TONY JONES: Bill Shorten.

BILL SHORTEN: No. Let’s go through and what I understand to be the meanings of misogyny and sexism… I take the definition of misogyny - the old definition is do you hate women. I don’t think Tony Abbott hates women. But do I think in the vernacular that misogyny has moved to the following definition, yes I do and the following definition is - there are some people who say things to women which are frankly inadvertent. That doesn’t make them right but they’re capable of being corrected. You say to this bloke or this person, “That’s just not right,” and they change. Misogyny, to me, is a - in the language which I understand it to have been used most recently is a view that there are some people who have a prejudice about women in certain occupations and they have an unexamined view in their own head about the status of women and the equality of women to do a whole range of things…

TONY JONES: I’m just going to interrupt. We will get to talk about some of these issues later on.

BILL SHORTEN: I just was getting…

TONY JONES: I mean you are broadening it out…

BILL SHORTEN: ...to policy.

TONY JONES: ...and you’ve already redefined a word that’s in the dictionary to suit your own meanings…

BILL SHORTEN: It’s still a free country. I will work with you but they’re my views.

TONY JONES: It is a free country and there’s a dictionary and you can look up the definition.

BILL SHORTEN: Yep. Okay.

TONY JONES: If you’re redefining it tonight, that’s a different matter.

VINCE DEL GALLEGO: Excuse me, Tony.

TONY JONES: Yes, sorry, go ahead.

VINCE DEL GALLEGO: Just the question was actually to be answered as a yes or a no and, as Tony said, you’ve redefined the dictionary to suit yourself. What I’m asking is that if you say that Julia Gillard is not a confirmed liar then you agree with her that Tony Abbott is a misogynist. Now, if you agree with that, can you tell me and this audience and to the whole world that Tony Abbott is a confirmed misogynist?

BILL SHORTEN: What I said to you - I did answer your question and I understand you’ve clearly got strong views but I do too on this.

VINCE DEL GALLEGO: I believe in integrity and I think the Prime Minister should have the integrity of this world.

The audience member was also too many for The Project’s Charlie Pickering, a trained lawyer unfamiliar with the definition of “liar” - and desperate not to have it attached to his Prime Minister:



CHARLIE PICKERING: Can you just give me your definition again of liar? You were specific with that and I…

VINCE DEL GALLEGO: A lie is a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive.

CHARLIE PICKERING: Yeah, see I don’t think that the Prime Minister’s use of “misogyny” - “misogynist” was a deliberate attempt to deceive. I believe that she meant it.

VINCE DEL GALLEGO: But misogynist hates women and girls.

CHARLIE PICKERING: But you’re talking about a deliberate attempt to deceive. If we’re getting - really, really are getting bogged down in semantics a little.

VINCE DEL GALLEGO: Well, not quite, I’m just sticking to the dictionary.

CHARLIE PICKERING: Yeah, absolutely. I personally believe that once you accuse someone of being a misogynist that’s a big accusation. It’s like being…

VINCE DEL GALLEGO: Well, she did that.

CHARLIE PICKERING: ...accused publicly of being racist or, once upon a time, of being accused of being a witch. It’s one the accusation is made it’s very hard to argue you’re way out of that. Personally I don’t think the word misogynist was necessarily correct.

VINCE DEL GALLEGO: But can you talk on behalf of the Prime Minister, she (indistinct)…

TONY JONES: Okay. I’m going…

CHARLIE PICKERING: We will not talk on behalf of the Prime Minister.

Takan Inchovit 16th Oct 2012 06:49


Now Gillard sees fit to call Tony A. a coward for not mentioning tow-back boats with SBY, maybe she doesn't know that to have done so would have been the height of rudeness,
Agreed, but it's probably the sort of thing I'd let my wife mention to SBY instead. :}

Buster Hyman 16th Oct 2012 07:43


TONY JONES: ...and you’ve already redefined a word that’s in the dictionary to suit your own meanings…

BILL SHORTEN: It’s still a free country. I will work with you but they’re my views.
I wonder how he defines W anchor?

SOPS 16th Oct 2012 07:46

Here is an idea..why doesn't julia tell SBY that she is going to start turning boats around. Lets face it, she has to do something.

Clare Prop 16th Oct 2012 07:53

Thanks Owen.

Much as I don't like what has become of the ALP I would hate for there to be no effective opposition after the next election.

On the other hand it sems daft that when the man is in the best position in the country to actually DO something about a problem which-rightly or wrongly-polarises Australians then why not just do what he was elected to do? It seems to highlight how this is all about "whatever it takes" and not effective leadership. How long do we have to wait I wonder? Until Big Brother Caucus decides what is good for us or until we (Halleluja!) get the chance to have a say ourselves?

So whether he is a good man or bad seems immaterial to his value. Like having the best house in the worst street.

Worrals in the wilds 16th Oct 2012 08:22

It was only a year ago that Labor's little friend (aka Bob Brown) had a massive dummy spit when the relevant department offered their opinion re immigration processing.
Brown calls for heads of Immigration 'turkeys' - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)
Bob might have retired but his allies are still in power; the same allies who condoned his previous statements. IMO pretty much anything this government has to say about unauthorised arrivals is just an attempt to placate disgruntled Labor voters, rather than an attempt at an effective solution. There may not be an effective solution while remaining a signatory to the convention, but they're sure as hell not going to say so. Whether the Howard Solution would have continued to work is of course academic, but it may not have.


The word sexist has new meaning now. Anything you say about some one of the opposite sex is sexist. Geddit.
Geddit. One of those 'joke' things. ROFLMAO. :} I guess you'd be pretty disappointed if you waved a red flag at a bull and the bull just stood there. ;)

owen meaney 16th Oct 2012 08:22

Clare, Whilst we have people like Simon Crean, Martin Ferguson and Chris Bowen in workers party, I feel the party can be rebuillt to encompasse the original Labor agenda.
At the moment, the thoughts of Marx and Junge are readily seen in Labor's cow towing to Big Business. All a bit Orwalian to me, you know the Animal Farm metaphor.

One of those 'joke' things. ROFLMAO.
WIWT, there is something I would like to see, you ROFLMAO ing. But yes, was being satirical.

allan907 16th Oct 2012 08:53

Definitions:

Racist - what you are when you are arguing with a lefty and they're losing the argument.

Sexist - what you are when you are arguing with a lefty and they're losing the argument.

Misogynist - what you are when you are arguing with a lefty and they're losing the argument big time.


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