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Worrals in the wilds 12th Jun 2013 03:00

I agree, Binghi.
I can't bear quotas, firstly because it justifies promoting people who are less competent than other candidates, and secondly because it just gives everyone an excuse to knock members of the minority whether they deserve it or not. The endless refrain of 'oh well, he/she only got the job because of...' haunts even hard working, deserving members of whatever minority got quotarised, even when they were the best candidate. I'm all for encouraging people to have a go in non-traditional employment (whether it's male nurses, female engineers or whatever) but I don't think quotas help the cause in the long term.

The 'no women in Abbott's government' argument is even more ridiculous when you consider his female deputy and female advisor. It gets incredibly stupid when you consider the number of dinosaur sexists who still infest the Labor Party and the union movement, neither of which are much better than the corporate world in this respect.

There are enough legitimate things to attack the Coalition about; why go on with this student union style nonsense? :bored:

Ken Borough 12th Jun 2013 04:18

Gee! Some people in these parts think as deeply as the depth of the very shallow gene pool from which they emanate. Just because one dares criticise Coalition policy and some of its principal players doesn't necessarily mean that one supports the ALP or any other political party. It is not axiomatic. Equally, support of some ALP policies does not infer support at the ballot box. Isn't it better to have an open, objective and just mind rather than have one that's firmly shut?

Some ALP policies are simply better than Coalition policies. Two examples

* why shouldn't we have a uniform system of education throughout Australia so that everyone has the same opportunities? The current system is fractured, and inequitable.

* why should very high income earners receive tax breaks for some of their personal expenditure that are costing the taxpayer billions? For example, the private health insurance rebate is the fastest growing item of expenditure in the Health budget. This is, no doubt, at the expense of delivery of real health needs.

Unfortunately, we don't have much detail on Coalition policy, so it's not that easy to comment on it. However, some of the megaphone-touting Right sometimes leave us little option but to think of the worst.

For the record, I am neither an ALP supporter nor an ALP voter. Never. I can however see good and bad in both main political parties and will say so. I guess if I were to be a card carrying Liberal, I'd be a member of the soft left. If some think that makes me an ALP mouthpiece, then so be it.

Andu 12th Jun 2013 04:18


How about we put them to work from 10 - 3 every day doing
things for the council ? Not taking jobs, building things or
something.
I think you could almost guarantee that this was looked at in the very early days of the current influx on uninvitees, and I think you could almost as certainly guarantee that it was found that it was a far cheaper option to employ people for $10,000 a month doing absolutely everything for them while they sat at the taxpayer-supplied computer updating their Facebook page or on their taxpayer-supplied iPhones calling home BECAUSE THAT OPTION WAS THE FAR CHEAPER OPTION.

Why cheaper? Because any forced work would involve taxpayer liability. A significant number would 'injure' themselves within days - if not hours - of taking up a tool and entrench themselves deeply on the "compensayshion" bandwagon for life - actively aided and abetted in this by Australian "human rights" lawyers.

Not that this isn't happening already. Many are claiming - and receiving - huge payouts for the psychological damage they are suffering while in detention.

Slight (but not as much as some may think) change of subject, but some will have heard that at least four of the approximately 200 Australian passport-holders (notice I did NOT label them "Australians") now fighting for the rebels in Syria have been killed. It's getting so bloody silly now that I predict it will only be a matter of time before there are calls to have those dead men's names added to the hall of honour at the Australian War Memorial - and for veteran's benefits to be paid to those who come back here.

Think I'm totally off my tree? Think again. It's only a matter of time before people holding such views will have enough numbers in this country to get such ideas through parliament.

500N 12th Jun 2013 05:30

Andu

Thanks, yes, you are correct re "working".


Ken

"* why shouldn't we have a uniform system of education throughout Australia so that everyone has the same opportunities? The current system is fractured, and inequitable."

I don't think it would work. Too many variables.

A uniform set of guidelines, yes, and then variation from here.
.

chuboy 12th Jun 2013 06:04


Originally Posted by 500N (Post 7888596)
I don't think it would work. Too many variables.

A uniform set of guidelines, yes, and then variation from here.
.

What are the variables? After all, every school within a state manages to teach the same curriculum. Except the ones in the smart state, ironically. But why is it suddenly too hard to extend every school in a state teaching the same content to every school in the country?

Decent education framework shouldn't be chucked in the too-hard basket. When you're old and frail it will be tomorrow's youngsters looking after you, and they will have learned from today's youngsters!

500N 12th Jun 2013 06:19

chuboy

A question first.

What is the need to have every school in the Country teaching the same thing ?

Are the states not virtually doing the same thing anyway ? or close to it ?

Variables
- how are you going to get all teachers in all areas to the same level ?
- Forget Aboriginal schools for a start. Other more important things to work
on like attendance before teaching them anything !

I'm not saying I am right, just interested.

Buster Hyman 12th Jun 2013 06:25

We'll need someone to watch over us when we start mass producing Winston Smiths...

http://tothecore.com.au/wp-content/u...Smith-1984.jpg

Ken Borough 12th Jun 2013 07:44

What grubs?
 
How can anyone defend the latest LNP episode of foul taste?

PM demands Libs dump Brough over offensive menu

It was Brough's fund-raiser and, as such, he is surely responsible for what was presented - fair and foul. He should go as he's really not much better than the Oxley Moron of a few years ago. Hockey's staff are quoted as saying that Hockey didn't know if he attended: how the hell does he determine his TA.

Shame LNP, shame! :yuk::yuk:

Fliegenmong 12th Jun 2013 08:25

Brough....."I didn't write the menu Sir! I Knew nuffin aboudit!!..Honest"

Hockey didn't know if he attended?? Oh for FFS :rolleyes:, that's since morphed into Hockey didn't look at the Menu....Which is equally unbelievable!!:ugh:

And on a day they had the upper hand in any gender related item after red witches idiotic comments!!! FFS :ugh:

Fliegenmong 12th Jun 2013 08:49

Was just sent this!....Classic!!! :D:D

Julia Gillard - Great Australian Lie - American Pie parody - YouTube

Ken, coming on here and being anything other than utterly one eyed and closed mind is simply not acceptable.....I've spent time in the Sin bin for it in the past!!

CoodaShooda 12th Jun 2013 08:59

Don't have any problem with Brought being disendorsed but the principle should be extended to all pollies who are associated with "tacky" behaviour.

Wouldn't be too many of the current labor party left standing either.

Now that Gillard has defined the election campaign in gender terms, we can anticipate getting an example of liberal mysogeny each day.

After all, this particular shot has been in the locker for 3 months. Probably plenty more to come.

As a strategy, it will bounce back on them.

Gillard's reputation is already in the gutter. This approach may drag the libs down to her level but it won't lift her above it. If anything, it will only reinforce what most of us think of her and not change voting intentions.

Edited to add - thanks for the link Fliegs. Love it.
I also share your pain about sin bins. In my case I referred to one of RTB's contributions as "dross". :E

Andu 12th Jun 2013 09:35

Two comments: first, same curriculum schooling in every State:


What is the need to have every school in the Country teaching the same thing ?
500N, when I was in the Defence Force, this was the bane of every servicemen's life (or at least, those who had school-aged children). You'd be posted interstate and the children would have to adjust to next State's system, some of which were really different to others. It was -and I'm sure it still is - a total pain. These days, we have a highly mobile civilian population as well, (although FIFO may have reduced the effect re schools), so it's no longer just Defence Force families who are disadvantaged.

So I believe there is indeed a need for a common curriculum.

Some years ago, (in the 80s, I think), the States went very close to coming up with a common curriculum and standards, but the spoiler was one Joan Kirner, then the Victorian Minister for Education (or "educayshun", if you prefer it in Juliaspeak).

The good Ms Kirner, true to her Left Faction Labar roots, did exactly what Julia Gillard is doing with Gonski (or, if she wins the election in September, she certainly will do). She politicized it, demanding all sorts of Leftie luvie non-core education crap be added to the curriculum.

And that's the nub - the Left (who damn near own the Teachers' Unions in every State) simply cannot resist adding unpalatable (to what I would call any clear-thinking person) stings in the tail of any attempt at centralization of the education system.

It's exactly the same as what scares many in any move to a republic. What hidden stings in the tail will be slipped in with any change to a republic?

-----

Secondly, the Mal Brough imbroglio: this is a prime example of how professional (and totally cutthroat) the Labor media/spin machine is. They've been sitting on the quail menu since March, holding it reserve for a really bad news day to distract the media. Given how many bad news days Labor have had since March, the only surprise is that they've held off until now. However, you have to say that they can be forgiven for hoping that Julia Gillard won't make a bigger gaffe between now and election day than her abortion/men in blue ties speech. (WTF was she thinking?)

So they've run it up the flag pole and the media have reacted exactly as the Labor spin doctors hoped they would. It has dominated the news today, at least reducing the blue ties fiasco to a dull roar.

Now to Mal Brough: is the fact that Labor continue to put so much effort into rolling him mute testimony that they fear him (as I believe they do - and always have, despite their protestations to the contrary - Tony Abbott)? Or is he just accident-prone? Myself, I think there's a little bit of truth in both arguments. If the Libs don't tell him he should step aside (as would seem to be the case), I can't help but feel we'll be hearing "Mal Brough / scandal / embarrassment for the Abbott government" all in the same sentence not long after the Libs take power.

Brough (or his team) should have had the nous to know that they had to stay away from anything even remotely like the offensive quail menu, particularly at a function with the Liberal Party name attached to it. Prawn and porn nights might have been acceptable for a boys only function some decades ago, but since the advent of iPhones and social media, anything even mildly controversial will get out into the wide world and bite them in the proverbial bum. The fact that he or his team didn't think the quail takeaway menu wouldn't leave them open to criticism is a worry, and, as I said above, doesn't leave me confident that after/if the Libs take over, we won't be hearing more of Mal Brough in ways Tony Abbott won't want to.

david1300 12th Jun 2013 09:42

This fundraiser was held in March - a while ago. The rumour that Gillard was going to play the sexist card this week was proved to be true. What are the chances she had this up her sleeve all along.

Fliegenmong 12th Jun 2013 09:42

No worries Cooda! :ok: It's a funny, clever link, well worth sharing!

I like Brough, and he'll be fine, as soon as Tone & Co jump up and down enough feigning disgust, and the MSM faithfully report it was entirely out of LNP control, (though the contents of the menu looked rather fancy and decidedly LNP no?) He'll be fine...an ex Howard Minister, he won't be touched by the MSM / Murdochracy :ok:

I cannot understand though how the ALP idiots haven't pointed to lower interest rates (interest rates will always be lower under a coalition government.....howard anyone :hmm:), lower employment, and an economy that (despite their ineptitude) is an envy of other first world nations?....Julie Bishops, 'just lets do nothing and wait and see what happens'.....would it really have worked??? :confused:

What I would like to see in this campaign that is not a campaign, is either side address the cost of living, Campbell Newman did it very effectively up here in Queensland, address it pre election, since being elected the cost of everything has gone up by a factor of a Sh!t-bin-load (rough translation...a lot more!) but the MSM never press him on pre election promises, and the ALPBC accept answers to queations that are never asked....but we are Australia, and the apathy accepts it.....if they;re not watching Master Chef or some such thing...:{

I think I read earlier somewhere the 'Pudits' are predicting it is going to take a long time to stop the boats....kinda ties in with the question I asked a few pages ago about when the boats would stop and when the coalition would 'own it', I seem to remember that rather than give their informed opinion, it was turned around, and I was asked to make comment on how long the boats would keep coming.....answering a question with a question......

So as for the Boats we're being softened up for Coalition failure already, pretty well as predicted, and I get rebuffed with a question as an answer for a question.....Sometimes I allow myself the thought I could almost do this Politician game...Hell, after all, every day at work I 'Play the Game', listen to unadulterated Bullsh!t, consume Sh!t sandwiches, while politely listening to those that have clearly been quaffing the Kool Aid....

Fliegenmong 12th Jun 2013 10:08

Never knew this was all held in March!!!!, didn't see that anywhere!!., If that is the case, then you could say clever politics (Well you would if it was the LNP)....You could also say that in this day and age of instant electronic phone camera email etc. ... Joe wasn't there, Joe was there, but he didn't read the menu :D ......no No Joe was there he read the menu and his staff were in the process of reprimanding those responsible, as can be seen by TA's feigned outrage, but the nasty ALPBC beat me to it, after 3 months......:hmm:

This is all getting more than a little repetitive, boring and droll......c`mon 14 September!!!

Squeaks 12th Jun 2013 10:14

Australian Financial Review:


The Brisbane-based fundraiser for Mr Brough took place at the Richards and Richards restaurant on March 28 this year and was also attended by shadow treasurer Joe Hockey. It was attended by about 30 people

The photo was originally posted by Twitter user @Chef09876, who gave his name only as “Dave” when contacted by The Australian Financial Review. He said he had seen the image on the Facebook page of another employee from the restaurant and decided to share it on the social network.

“I just copied it. I tried to tweet it after the function, to send it to Julia Gillard, the Labor party, [Sky news presenter] Peter Van Onselen and Kevin Rudd, my local member, but I didn’t get a reply from any of them. I don’t know if they were too busy to notice them at the time,’’ he said.

“Dave” has subsequently clarified on Twitter that he did not attempt to contact Mr Rudd.

dat581 12th Jun 2013 10:20

From the Bolt Blog:


I may owe Brough an apology. The chairman of the restaurant which held the fundraiser says the menu was a private joke and Bough did not see it:
Dear Mal,
I have been following the rubbish that has been on the news today. I would like to confirm what actually happened: there were never any menus distributed on the tables or in the restaurant. I created a mock menu myself as a light-hearted joke, however as I said I never produced them for public distribution. Unfortunately a staff member saw the mock menu, and unbeknownst to myself, posted it on their facebook. It now appears that a third party for political reasons has distributed it, yet I can reassure you that no such menu was distributed on the night. As you know no one at the dinner was privy to such a menu, and it is so unfortunate that an in-house joke between myself and my son has caused you great problems and embarrassment.
Regards,
Joe Richards
Chairman



Fliegenmong 12th Jun 2013 10:32

Hmm....perhaps that was the correct answer then :hmm:

Should have been given first off.......credibility and all that...:rolleyes

....Bolt...a very reasoned, and measurable sort of chap, not prone to displaying any sort of unfounded bias......will do well indeed out of a coalition win, and one does wonder for just how long will the good Mr Bolt do an about face and become an unabashed apologist for a TA government....

...hey I only ever seem to offer an opportunity to rebuff here....so I ask....how long before Bolt is defending the indefensible????

OK, not a fair question, because we don't know when the indefensible will arise.....let us start with boats maybe.....if in 6 months they haven't stopped, I trust it won't be because TA wasn't hard enough...Am I right????

Fliegenmong 12th Jun 2013 10:44

"I have been following the rubbish that has been on the news today. I would like to confirm what actually happened: there were never any menus distributed on the tables or in the restaurant. I created a mock menu myself as a light-hearted joke"

No need for TA feigned hysterics.......just needed to say the above.....what we saw was not what was present at the fundraiser...but rather than that honesty... we get instead...'was not at fundraiser' (Oh ****, I was at fundraiser)...change to 'I didn't read menu'......blah blah.....

'Dog ate my homework', would be an acceptable excuse to many here I would expect

Spin,.....'tis not the sole domain of the Labor party people....:(

500N 12th Jun 2013 11:08

Andu

OK, good points, you have swung me.

I remember Kirner and yes, the Lefties bugger everything up.

david1300 12th Jun 2013 11:20

fliegs,when you stop to draw breath you might see the following:
1 the confusion is understandable as the attendees didn't see the menu and possibly didn't even know which function is was allegedly at
2 could it have been a fundraiser, was Hockey there, blah, blah, blah - see 1 above

The smelling salts are in aisle 4 if you need some.

500N 12th Jun 2013 11:22

After what has come out, I think Gillard might eat her words !!!

She is playing a dangerous game playing the sexist card.

Buster Hyman 12th Jun 2013 11:30

Well, I look forward to hearing Gillard apologise to the LNP for her over the top reaction to the menu then, if indeed it was an in-joke....no, I'm not holding my breath.

SOPS 12th Jun 2013 11:34

I think she should stop taking advise from that 457 visa, media advisor bloke. He obviously has no idea how the bulk of Australians think. He is basing all his spin ideas on the British electorate, and it generally does not work here, down under.

One day, Dullard is going to sit an reflect "what was I thinking"

RJM 12th Jun 2013 11:40

It looks as though the briliant strategem of Gillard and most likely McTernan is going to whip around and bite her as usual.





.

david1300 12th Jun 2013 11:41


Originally Posted by Fliegenmong (Post 7888870)
....So as for the Boats we're being softened up for Coalition failure already, pretty well as predicted, and I get rebuffed with a question as an answer for a question....

Here's your answer - post 5763. But you don't need to accept it. Just keep blustering along asking and asking.


Originally Posted by david1300 (Post 7865674)
@fliegs - my best guess is 12 to 18 months. In practical terms, policy has to be turned into legislation, which then has to be drafted, debated and passed. Then the effect of this legislation has to be communicated all the way through the system. But until the policy/legislation cycle is complete, the damage done by the current policy will continue in full force and effect, and probably increase before the tide is turned.


Fliegenmong 12th Jun 2013 11:45

Ta Dave!

I forgot there's always an excuse when convenient.....functions like that, that I've attended, I usually, actually being a 'Foodie' always peruse the menu...would have though big joe did the same....

But I accept that my visitations to such salubrious events are so few and far between that I probably cherish them, more so than pass them off as 'didn't see the menu', didn't even know I was there!!!

Held up unwittingly on the gravy train I was Sir!, nose firmly entrenched in trough ......It's an entirely plausible excuse Davo, I understand....Peter Reith still pops up now and again you know!!

Having watched Campbell Newmans performance Davo, I think I am entitled to some smelling salts :ok:

Saltie 12th Jun 2013 12:13

Fleigs, from latest reports, (I know, I know - "if they can be believed"), it would seem that Joe and Mal might well have studied the menu and read every word on it - and they wouldn't have seen any mention of crimson boxes or quail of any kind. The chef says he made a fake menu as a joke and the diners at the fund raiser got a different - real - menu.

I know this won't satisfy the True Believers, but as damage control measures go, it's better than some I've seen lately. If the Libs can come up with a few copies of the "real" menu, (with dinner at $1000 to $2000 a head, there'd be a fair chance that a few people might have kept a copy), Mal Brough might come out of this not too damaged, or at least well enough to be safe from disendorsement.

sisemen 12th Jun 2013 12:48

It's a typical "oh fark. Jools has blown it again. What have we got in the cupboard that can divert the press?"

Loved the bit on 7.30 report that had a plethora of blue ties! If that's all Dullard and the ALP have got in the campaigning cupboard then they deserve everything that's coming their way.

Flying Binghi 12th Jun 2013 13:27

Ah, nostalgia. Old Goffy weren't that bad after all..:)

Poster Winston offers up some comments over at Joanne Nova's place...

"I’m just so pleased that poor old Gough Whitlam got to live to see his reign as Australia’s worst ever PM, and head of Australia’s worst ever government, brought to an abrupt end by this current Labor government and its lame duck incompetent PM, who are now the all-time, undisputed and undefeated champions of collective incompetence, corruption, malfeasance, economic illiteracy, and supreme purveyors of distortions, lies, spin and deception. And..." continues - An Abbott fan offends with a bad joke. Gillard lies, cheats, and burns your life savings. One of these things matters. « JoNova







.

Cactusjack 12th Jun 2013 14:41

It is all very very entertaining! Embarrassing but entertaining. Gillard is the (large) butt of jokes nationally, internationally, even within her own party.
She is toxic. Even the Peter Garrett got banned from some Queensland schools, first time that has ever happened, gold! Politicians packing up their offices already, the shredders working overtime, C.V's being sent to prospective employers, it's all happening.

But as for Rudd, dear oh dear. If you have ever studied psychology or sociopathy then he is your man! A sociopath to the bone. This man knows he is history, and my god he is going to take the lot of them down with him. Gillard and her faceless men thought they knew the man, his game, his strengths and his weaknesses. But as is often the case, they didn't pick that he was a socio til it was too late. They had rolled him and then the damage came afterward. His ultimate blow came after his failed attempt to regain the reigns. Leading Creen to believe that he was ready to come back as leader, letting Crean do all the work, make it public, go for Julia's throat then he Kev says 'sorry folks, I ain't interested'! Pure genius, and the final nail was banged into Labor's coffin. Hell I wouldn't mind betting he has pissed in her coffee, wiped shit under her car door handles and put nasty letters in her neighbourhood mail boxes!!
Meanwhile he waves to the crowds, the crowds wave back, they cheer KEVIN KEVIN KEVIN, to many he is a Messiah. Oh yeah baby, this man is good, very very good!

Then we have Latham on the sidelines chipping in! Oh yes, it takes a socio to recognise a socio, and Latham reads 'the book of Rudd' extremely well, he knows what Kev has done, what he is doing, what Kevs agenda is! Describing Rudd as evil is interesting, and in the case of Gillard and co that is certainly true. in their eyes as he is single handedly burning Rome to the ground. They screwed the wrong person, and the wily silvertail won't stop his conquest until he has buried the people, party and supporters who screwed him, be assured of that. And I admire him for that, why bend over and take it, why not return eye for an eye? I eagerly await Kevs next trick, he isn't done yet.

On a final conclusion, Labor are left with one choice really, Shorten. If they roll Joolia and put Shorten in it won't win them an election, but it will help them hang on to a seat or two, soften the impending bloodbath by a fraction, and give them the foundation to rebuild. It is still going to be probably the largest election thrashing in Australian history and nothing can halt that. Why? Because it is what Kevin wants. Try and stop him!

SOPS 12th Jun 2013 14:50

Cactus.....you have just made my night:ok:

RJM 12th Jun 2013 16:57

Mine too!

Apart from being a dullard, a z-grade retail politician and a rabid Marxist hell-bent on destroying Australia’s economic foundations, Gillard is a tragic nobody allowed to wreak terrible damage on the country by a corrupt power structure in a dying party.

Labor Right will suffer most in the next election, leaving the union controlled zombies of the Left in charge of what's left of the ALP. By union I don't mean hardworking shop stewards but the entrenched leaderships of the few big Left wing unions, the guys who are making a hypocrite of Gillard by forcing her to back their parachuted in male condidates for pre-selection in the relatively safe seats of Gellibrand (ex A-G Roxon) and Batman (ex Mar'n Fer'son) in dedfiance of Labor's 40% of winnable seats for women rule, none of which makes for healthy politics in the next parliament, especially if the Greens and Left independents control the Senate.

Gillard, in whose world of undergraduate politics the government of Australia is a personal game, will blame Abbott for everything.

PS It was interesting to see the ABC man the guns apparently without checking any facts on the menu story, then have to recant in mid-stride on the news programs tonight. Good job newly appointed Labor trusty Russell Skelton was in there fact-checking. Over to you, Mark Scott and Media Watch...

500N 12th Jun 2013 17:08

"apparently without checking any facts on the menu story"

I am amazed no one, from either side of politics checked the facts of the story
before commenting, especially the Liberal pollie who apologised !


On ABC Radio in the last couple of days, absolute proof that
the majority of leadership speculation is media driven / hype.

A "numbers" man from Labor was asked about it, he said words
along the lines of "I had a quiet weekend / last few days, plenty of
phone calls and messages left by Journos about the leadership,
no calls from colleagues about the leadership. So it is journos
jumping at shadows, journos chasing up journos stories
on the leadership with none of it actually having any basis at all"

RJM 12th Jun 2013 21:14

Exactly. Especially since Brough's (early) apology sressed that the source was not a member of the Liberal Party.

"Join the dots," says Julia...

500N 12th Jun 2013 21:16

""Join the dots," says Julia..."


Except she is the one person who couldn't organise
a piss up in a brewery !

Andu 12th Jun 2013 22:10

I see that Arnold Swartznegger and Julia Gillard will be on stage together in Perth ("Perf") this morning.

...the Terminator meets the About to be Terminated?

RJM 12th Jun 2013 23:05


Except she is the one person who couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery!
Part of her problem is that she doesn't see that.

500N 12th Jun 2013 23:16

Well, one of her minders needs to tell here that.

Play to your strengths and let others handle
everything else.

CoodaShooda 12th Jun 2013 23:44


Play to your strengths
I thought that's what she's doing - lies, evasion and misrepresentations.

When she leaves it to her minders, she ends up with aboriginal riots and an embarrassing photo op.

I see Peter van Onselen (sp?) has now tweeted that the restauranteur who did the menu "considers himself a labor man". :eek:

Now, what were we saying about the gender card coming back to bite her?


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